About to Start HRT, Could Use Some Advice -- With Bloodwork

[OingoBoingo]

I’d been thinking a lot of TRT when I get older, but was walking past a “wellness center” (run by a well known hospital where I live in Bangkok), noticed they were offering a promotion on blood tests, and since I’ve been feeling a bit run down lately, decided to go in.

Results were ready in about 9 hours, and here they are:

Male, 57 years old, 6’, 235 pounds, 24% BF

IGF-I: 157ng/ml : Range 87-238
Total Testosterone : 232ng/dl : Range 240 - 950 ng/dL
SHBG: 37.9 nmol/l : Range 10 – 60
Albumin: 41 gm/l : Range 38.00 - 50.00
Free Androgen Index: 21.2
Free Testosterone(cFT): 42pg/ml : Range 90 - 300
% Free Testosterone (cFT): 1.8 Percent : Range 2.00 - 4.80
Bioavailable Testosterone: 94 ng/dl
% Bioavailable Testosterone: 40 Percent

DHEA-S: 455.3ug/dl : Range 38 - 313
Free T3*: 2.97 pg/mll : Range 1.71 - 3.71
Free T4*: 1.11 ng/dl : Range 0.70 - 1.48
TSH*: 1.518 uU/ml : Range 0.350 - 4.940
Estradiol (E2): 24.5 pg/ml
LH: 2.13 mIU/ml
FSH: 7.12 mIU/ml

Cholesterol*: 199 mg/dl : Range Less than 200
Triglycerides*: 112 mg/dl : Range Less than 150
HDL-C*: 34mg/dl : Range More than 40
CHOL/HDL-C*: 5.9 : Range less than 4.6
LDL-C* (Direct Method): 146 mg/dl : Range Less than 130
LDL-C/HDL-C *: 4.3 :Range less than 3.0

No other results are in the report.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the E2 result was not the sensitive assay as I asked about it and the people there did not have a clue. Visited a competing hospital about a year ago, and they too didn’t understand what I was looking for.

Looks like I may be a candidate for TRT. Little concerned about the high DHEA-S result, and am wondering if that might lower once TRT starts.

Would love to read any opinions about the results.

Will be meeting with a Dr. from the wellness center on Wednesday. Talked a little by email already, and he seems open to different treatments.

Having read the forums a bit, was considering proposing the following:

15mg Testosterone Cypionate injected subcutaneously every day, and
100iu hCG injected subcutaneously every day.

Follow up bloodwork in 6 weeks?

Does this seem reasonable to start?

Should I be thinking about AI?

Had a digital prostate check a few months ago, but was thinking about getting a PSA just to have a number.

Thank you in advance.

[OingoBoingo]

I was thinking starting a wellness journal when I start TRT. What would be good things to include in the journal?

I noticed that the T results in the lab report are age adjusted. Does that make a difference?

If taking daily shots, the amount is pretty small. Would it be better to alternate T and his every other day?

Still hoping to get some feedback on my labs before seeing the Dr. in about 36 hours.

[Beethoven]

There are a few on this forum who pin every day and have good results. I would run the protocol for six weeks and do follow up BW.

[Chicagotarsier]

CHOL/HDL-C*: 5.9 : Range less than 4.6
Extremely high risk. Low test can impact this but your good HDL is horribly low. Get this in order. Statins can help but you need to up your good cholesterol mostly (statins will lower good and bad). Diet change. Add oatmeal, Olive oil, remove fried foods and minimize not fatty omega oil protiens (add salmon baked remove pork chicken and beef), add almonds, add avocados, eat leafy greens.

As far as TrT you should not be thinking doses you should be thinking if your doc is going to try HCG only therapy first (fake LH due to your LH is low), then you should be thinking what if he offers gel or pills (androil) instead of shot.

My two cents is if you are not looking to have more kids get on a program that gives you the most stable hormones (a shot of test). A compitent Dr will offer you 75-100 mg/ week as your dose. This can be done once a week (using test cyp or test E) or every other day (EoD) shots of test Propinate. In the states Cyp is the most common protocol. It should be Inter Muscular shot (can be Sub Q).

No doc is going to give you TrT test without a full check of prostrate. That would be a one way trip to a lawsuit if not.

Your lipids are very very bad. That coupled with low test has you at extremely high risk for stroke. That should be the biggest thing on your mind to be honest at this point.



QUOTE=OingoBoingo;6887729]I’d been thinking a lot of TRT when I get older, but was walking past a “wellness center” (run by a well known hospital where I live in Bangkok), noticed they were offering a promotion on blood tests, and since I’ve been feeling a bit run down lately, decided to go in.

Results were ready in about 9 hours, and here they are:

Male, 57 years old, 6’, 235 pounds, 24% BF

IGF-I: 157ng/ml : Range 87-238
Total Testosterone : 232ng/dl : Range 240 - 950 ng/dL
SHBG: 37.9 nmol/l : Range 10 – 60
Albumin: 41 gm/l : Range 38.00 - 50.00
Free Androgen Index: 21.2
Free Testosterone(cFT): 42pg/ml : Range 90 - 300
% Free Testosterone (cFT): 1.8 Percent : Range 2.00 - 4.80
Bioavailable Testosterone: 94 ng/dl
% Bioavailable Testosterone: 40 Percent

DHEA-S: 455.3ug/dl : Range 38 - 313
Free T3*: 2.97 pg/mll : Range 1.71 - 3.71
Free T4*: 1.11 ng/dl : Range 0.70 - 1.48
TSH*: 1.518 uU/ml : Range 0.350 - 4.940
Estradiol (E2): 24.5 pg/ml
LH: 2.13 mIU/ml
FSH: 7.12 mIU/ml

Cholesterol*: 199 mg/dl : Range Less than 200
Triglycerides*: 112 mg/dl : Range Less than 150
HDL-C*: 34mg/dl : Range More than 40
CHOL/HDL-C*: 5.9 : Range less than 4.6
LDL-C* (Direct Method): 146 mg/dl : Range Less than 130
LDL-C/HDL-C *: 4.3 :Range less than 3.0

No other results are in the report.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the E2 result was not the sensitive assay as I asked about it and the people there did not have a clue. Visited a competing hospital about a year ago, and they too didn’t understand what I was looking for.

Looks like I may be a candidate for TRT. Little concerned about the high DHEA-S result, and am wondering if that might lower once TRT starts.

Would love to read any opinions about the results.

Will be meeting with a Dr. from the wellness center on Wednesday. Talked a little by email already, and he seems open to different treatments.

Having read the forums a bit, was considering proposing the following:

15mg Testosterone Cypionate injected subcutaneously every day, and
100iu hCG injected subcutaneously every day.

Follow up bloodwork in 6 weeks?

Does this seem reasonable to start?

Should I be thinking about AI?

Had a digital prostate check a few months ago, but was thinking about getting a PSA just to have a number.

Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE]

[BallSak]

Your lipids will improve once your testosterone comes up and everything balances. I wouldnt stress about them at this point. My cholesterol pre-TRT was terrible and is pretty good now.

[OingoBoingo]

There are a few on this forum who pin every day and have good results. I would run the protocol for six weeks and do follow up BW.

Thank you, Beethoven.

If I understand it correctly, 100mg split 7 ways of 200mg/ml works out to 0.15mL daily. It should be easy to measure tenths of a mL with an insulin syringe, but accurately measuring 0.15mL has me stumped.

[Metalject]

Thank you, Beethoven.

If I understand it correctly, 100mg split 7 ways of 200mg/ml works out to 0.15mL daily. It should be easy to measure tenths of a mL with an insulin syringe, but accurately measuring 0.15mL has me stumped.

If the testosterone is 200mg/ml, which most cypionate is, each 10th of an ml will equal 20mg.
If you're going to split 100mg into 7 injections per week, that comes out to 14.285...mg so just call it 15mg for ease. So you'd be injecting less than a tenth of a ml per injection since each tenth equals 20mg. So counting up towards the first tenth mark, you'd be drawing out in-between the 7th and 8th line. That's going to be nearly impossible to get right on the money so I'd just go with line 7 or 8 and be done with it if you're set on doing it this way.

In my opinion, there's no need to do it this way. Too much hassle and it's just not going to make a big difference beyond two injections per week, which would be much, much easier.

[OingoBoingo]

chol/hdl-c*: 5.9 : Range less than 4.6
extremely high risk. Low test can impact this but your good hdl is horribly low. Get this in order. Statins can help but you need to up your good cholesterol mostly (statins will lower good and bad). Diet change. Add oatmeal, olive oil, remove fried foods and minimize not fatty omega oil protiens (add salmon baked remove pork chicken and beef), add almonds, add avocados, eat leafy greens.

As far as trt you should not be thinking doses you should be thinking if your doc is going to try hcg only therapy first (fake lh due to your lh is low), then you should be thinking what if he offers gel or pills (androil) instead of shot.

My two cents is if you are not looking to have more kids get on a program that gives you the most stable hormones (a shot of test). A compitent dr will offer you 75-100 mg/ week as your dose. This can be done once a week (using test cyp or test e) or every other day (eod) shots of test propinate. In the states cyp is the most common protocol. It should be inter muscular shot (can be sub q).

No doc is going to give you trt test without a full check of prostrate. That would be a one way trip to a lawsuit if not.

Your lipids are very very bad. That coupled with low test has you at extremely high risk for stroke. That should be the biggest thing on your mind to be honest at this point.

Thank you, chicagotarsier.

I am not in the US, and I wouldn't put it past the doctors here to start TRT without a PSA; after all, it wasn't included in the initial labwork (unless I missed it). But I will make sure I get one before starting anything.

After my workout this morning, stopped at the store and bought some olive oil and a salmon oil supplement. Will work some more to try improving the numbers. As for the rest of my diet: Haven't had beef in years, have 2 servings of oatmeal every morning, only eat enough chicken (and a little pork) to satisfy my daily protein requirements, don't eat fried foods, and eat a lot of salad every day for lunch and dinner. Will see what I can do to add more fish into the mix. Salmon is hard to find around here, but not impossible.

Even with my current condition, I try to work out as hard as I can. Hopefully some better numbers will provide energy to do some more.

The HDL/LDL ratio has been a life long problem for me. Tried a few different things with US doctors, but nothing did the trick. Am starting to wonder if low T was the cause all along. That would explain a few things.

Thank you for your comments on LH. Makes good sense to see if we can get the boys working again before trying anything more drastic.

But it does bring up an interesting question. If the goal of Anti-Aging treatment is to increase T levels to the top quartile, is it really possible at 57 years old that hCG could do that on its own?

Thank you again for your comments,chicagotarsier. I feel much better prepared to see the doctor. Will update the thread with what happens in about 24 hours.

[OingoBoingo]

Your lipids will improve once your testosterone comes up and everything balances. I wouldnt stress about them at this point. My cholesterol pre-TRT was terrible and is pretty good now.

Thank you BallSak. I appreciate the reassuring words.

Started supplementing with olive oil and salmon oil yesterday.

Will see if I can find some niacin today.

Any recommendations for niacin dosage?

[OingoBoingo]

If the testosterone is 200mg/ml, which most cypionate is, each 10th of an ml will equal 20mg.
If you're going to split 100mg into 7 injections per week, that comes out to 14.285...mg so just call it 15mg for ease. So you'd be injecting less than a tenth of a ml per injection since each tenth equals 20mg. So counting up towards the first tenth mark, you'd be drawing out in-between the 7th and 8th line. That's going to be nearly impossible to get right on the money so I'd just go with line 7 or 8 and be done with it if you're set on doing it this way.

In my opinion, there's no need to do it this way. Too much hassle and it's just not going to make a big difference beyond two injections per week, which would be much, much easier.

Thank you, Metaliject.

My thinking is that it wouldn't be just two considering the hCG , which I would like to have as part of my routine.

The thought of smaller injections and a daily routine appeals to me.

On the way to the doctor's office now. Will post what happens in a few hours.

Many thanks for everyone's comments. I am excited that I might come out of this feeling better.

[Rusty11]

Good luck with your appt. See what he has to say/offer. Ask questions. No need to think about an ai right now. You might want to ask your dr. if he will prescribe an ai IF necessary. Also ask about hCG . Some prescribe both of these, but many do not. Get a feel as to whether he seems knowledgeable with trt. And yes, ask for psa bw. Agree that those lipid values need attention. Update us.

[OingoBoingo]

Thanks Rusty11.

Spent about an hour with the doctor. Initially he was quite willing to load me up with all kinds of stuff (including HGH), but things improved when I started asking focused questions. Many thanks again to you who contributed to this thread. My meeting with the doctor wouldn't have been nearly as good without your comments and help.

Told him I wanted to take things slowly and start with hCG . The doctor said that most people wanted instant results, and I told him progress was good enough for me and that I'd be more comfortable making small changes.

As I suspected, he wasn't interested in a PSA until T starts, but after me saying it would be good to have a baseline, he was agreeable to taking my money.

Immediately after the meeting, they took me into a side room to take blood. After that was done, they told me to return at 1:40 for another meeting with the doctor. After that meeting, will pick up the stuff and receive injection coaching from a nurse.

It looks like my initial prescription will be 100IU hCG subcutaneously every day. Blood work again in 6 weeks, and another office visit a week after that (as he'll be at a conference in the US, which I took as a good sign). My guess is T will start after that.

Overall, I don't think I could have been more pleased with the meeting. Many thanks to the experts who post in the forum, and in particular those who contributed to this thread.

I have more comments to make, but am starving and must grab something to eat before the next appointment. Will post again in a few hours.

[OingoBoingo]

I apologize for not updating for a few days. I got shanghaied into a going-away party for an acquaintance, and then spent s some time gathering supplies. But back to the storey…

Turns out the wellness center’s philosophy is to raise a man’s levels to 80% of age adjusted maximum levels. And although they were pushing gel and Nebido, they are happy to follow anyone’s protocol as long as it “does no harm.”

The only downside is that they seem to not order enough lab work. It’s true that the labs here aren’t as sophisticated as the labs in the West and many tests aren’t available (such as E2 Sensitive and Vit D levels), but even so, they seem to order the minimum required. Having said that, the doctor is very willing to give me any test I want, and an appointment isn’t even required; one can just walk in off the street and get a test.

The next day (Thursday), I mixed the hCG and pre-filled 14 syringes. The doctor made a point of telling me I should get 15 syringes out of one bottle, but due to my inexperience, and crazy way of dispensing, I could only get 14. The doctor said that mixing vials were not available. I had previously checked at pharmacies and found the same thing. So BSW is drawn and measured with a big syringe, shot into the hCG, then the mixture is drawn into the big syringe, needle removed, and the insulin syringes draw through the bunghole (if that makes any sense).

A friend recommended a good medical supply store quite a distance away that could have mixing vials, and I may just check it out.

My first injection (Thursday at 1PM) went a little slow, but then I just manned up and stabbed myself. Was surprised that I couldn’t feel a thing; couldn’t feel the needle going in, couldn’t feel the actual injection, and couldn’t feel the needle coming out.

BTW, am using 0.5mL BD Ultra-Fine II syringes. Very short needle.

Recently watched a YouTube video of a guy struggling to push T through an insulin syringe, but am willing to give it a shot when the time comes.

It might have been a placebo, but about 5 hours after the shot it felt like someone drained the bags under my eyes and a feeling of relief washed over me.

The second day (Friday), I woke up tired as I usually do, and gave myself the shot at 7AM. At 8AM I felt the same feeling of relief washing over me and my eyes feeling less heavy. That’s the only way I can explain it. Went to the gym and decided to take it easy on my back day, but half-way through I was having fun and going all out. On the way home, I realized that I didn’t feel as irritated (or angry) as I usually do. Tried thinking about a few things that usually set me off, but they had no effect on me. By about 7PM, my eyes started feeling heavy again. At 8PM, took some melatonin, and hit the sack around 9.

On Saturday, gave myself the injection around 8AM. No feeling of relief so far this time, but it feels like I have a little more energy; not like amped up caffeine energy, but just the ability to do stuff. Don’t know if it’s a placebo or not, but I’ll take it!

[lovbyts]

Its EASY to get distracted in Thailand.
When I was there I remember walking past the gym once. lol I got plenty of cardio though and not just in the bedroom. I would walk for about 2hrs every day. I love just walking around and seeing what there is to see even if it's nothing.

If you are going for straight TRT and not thinking of doing any cycles then I would suggest considering Nebido. They just started using this in the US but it's very popular in the UK and you dont have to do weekly injections. Everyone seems to really like it.

Yeah 100% placebo but thats not a bad thing.

[OingoBoingo]

Thanks lovbyts.

Today was my 5th injection. The waves of relief have been replaced with an overall not bad feeling; I don't feel particularly good or hopped up, but the daily dread is gone.

Had crazy stamina in the gym today. That happens from time to time, so maybe that was a placebo too.

But my shirts are starting to smell like they did in high school. No deodorant known to man can tame that beast.

I had considered Nebido, but crossed it off my list mainly because I was worried that if I crashed before the injection was due, it might be difficult to get the doctors here to change their protocol.

The idea of blasting is tempting, but that's probably a long way off for now. Wouldn't be possible to blast on top of Nebido? But on the other hand, if I stick to Test Cyp from the hospital, I can be relatively sure of getting the real deal.

[joeybull]

ive been on nebido for 3 years,1000mg every 10 weeks but at week 7 i feel like shit again, i told my endo this but the prick wont listen.i decided to self medicate with test e 250 at 3 and 6 weeks and feel a lot better but i am a bit worried the test e will still have levels elevated at 9 week blood test,how long does test e elevate levels for,any advice would be much appreciated thanks

[lovbyts]

Smart man on waiting to blast until you are ready, most dont.

Yeah the BO oder will get better but frequent showers and deodorant are always good. I used a lot of baby powder when in Thailand but on the the face like most Thais. lol

Since test is so easy to find you could also get some just in case you felt you started to crash but really most people dont have a problem on Nebido as long as your doctor has you set on a good protocol.

So this is your 5th shot does that mean 5th week or you are pinning daily? There really is not much reason to pin daily but it's up to you. I have not had much luck pushing the oil through anything smaller than a 27g. If it's convenient for you then thats fine but if not 2x a week works perfectly well. Once a week is also OK but 2x works better to keep the levels the same with little to no spike.

Stamina is a must have when in Thailand or Philippines for that matter.

[OingoBoingo]

So this is your 5th shot does that mean 5th week or you are pinning daily? There really is not much reason to pin daily but it's up to you. I have not had much luck pushing the oil through anything smaller than a 27g. If it's convenient for you then thats fine but if not 2x a week works perfectly well. Once a week is also OK but 2x works better to keep the levels the same with little to no spike.

I am not on T yet. I am only pinning 100IU hCG daily.

Not really happy with the routine because I think the dose is too low for mono-therapy (low LH), and I don't really understand why I at my age I shouldn't just start TRT. Started a new thread a few hours ago (Rehabilitation or Anti-Aging), hoping to get some opinions.

I already have a doctor appointment for Wednesday morning and will either double the hCG, or start TRT.

Anyway, I'm trying to stick with pinning everyday because the E2 sensitive test isn't available here, and I want to do everything I can to avoid problems. Also, it keeps the size of the injections down which I think will make subq easier.

Tempted to post a few of my favorite pics, but would have to spend a few hours editing out the naughty parts.

If there's a better place to spend retirement, I haven't found it yet.

[lovbyts]

Nope I cant think of any except the wife wont let me go there anymore because she is Filipino and thinks Thailand is a sinful place. Good thing she doesn't realize the Philippines is not much different. I plan on retiring there within the next 10 years.

Do you visit Pattaya much? I like Secrets bar and grill, nice place, good people/owner.

[OingoBoingo]

I go to Pattaya every other week.

I know Secrets, but I prefer very bad places.

[Beethoven]

I am not on T yet. I am only pinning 100IU hCG daily.

Not really happy with the routine because I think the dose is too low for mono-therapy (low LH), and I don't really understand why I at my age I shouldn't just start TRT. Started a new thread a few hours ago (Rehabilitation or Anti-Aging), hoping to get some opinions.

I already have a doctor appointment for Wednesday morning and will either double the hCG, or start TRT.

Anyway, I'm trying to stick with pinning everyday because the E2 sensitive test isn't available here, and I want to do everything I can to avoid problems. Also, it keeps the size of the injections down which I think will make subq easier.

Tempted to post a few of my favorite pics, but would have to spend a few hours editing out the naughty parts.

If there's a better place to spend retirement, I haven't found it yet.

I think that it's too low for monotherapy. If I'm not mistaken, I was above 1000 iu's a week. I can't remember because I was very new to this but I went through a bottle in a little over a month (16000 iu's). It does kind of make you feel good,is the only way to describe it. My maintenance dose on trt now is 1000 iu's. You're way short for monotherapy.

[lovbyts]

I go to Pattaya every other week.

I know Secrets, but I prefer very bad places.

Is Larry still at Secrets? Good guy/manager.
I use to go to Living Dolls when the old manager was there but he died a few years back. Also a good guy and treated the girls good, always trying to hook them up with someone long term, permanently. Angel witch was always good for a date night.

Yeah there are a few hole in the wall clubs that were a little more dark/fun.

[OingoBoingo]

I think that it's too low for monotherapy. If I'm not mistaken, I was above 1000 iu's a week. I can't remember because I was very new to this but I went through a bottle in a little over a month (16000 iu's). It does kind of make you feel good,is the only way to describe it. My maintenance dose on trt now is 1000 iu's. You're way short for monotherapy.

IIRC, the initial mono-therapy proposal was 750IU three times a week, for a week. Followed by 500IU three times a week. I may have pushed back on that a little because I read that taking over 500IU at one time saturates the receptors. But I can't remember how the dose ended up at 100IU daily.

I made an appointment to see the doctor in about 24 hours. I was thinking to either double the hCG , or just start TRT.

I hope you don't mind a few questions. Why did you change from mono-therapy to TRT? How old were you when you made the change? Looking back, right choice?

[OingoBoingo]

Is Larry still at Secrets? Good guy/manager.
I use to go to Living Dolls when the old manager was there but he died a few years back. Also a good guy and treated the girls good, always trying to hook them up with someone long term, permanently. Angel witch was always good for a date night.

Yeah there are a few hole in the wall clubs that were a little more dark/fun.

About 6 months ago, I heard Larry moved on to Baby Dolls. Like him or not, I really don't think he's right for that particular club. Baby Dolls is one of my favorite hang-outs, and I haven't seen him there. And I hope I don't. Guys that go to BD aren't looking for another Secrets or FLB.

[hawk14dl]

You guys are making me really want go visit.

[lovbyts]

About 6 months ago, I heard Larry moved on to Baby Dolls. Like him or not, I really don't think he's right for that particular club. Baby Dolls is one of my favorite hang-outs, and I haven't seen him there. And I hope I don't. Guys that go to BD aren't looking for another Secrets or FLB.

True, I liked Baby Dolls or Baby Dolls A go go also. Very different than Secrets and variety is good.

For now I will have to stick to visiting a Cebu and a few places in Manila. Davao where our house and other property is doesnt seem to have any big clubs but plenty of little hole in the walls. I miss the $7 1hr full body massage I was use to getting every other day... I need to go back soon.

I use to stay at heavens above and one of my favorites is Swiss Food and hotel. They have a nice room at the top that has a 4 person hot tub on the roof with a full open private balcony, it's big and only $40 a night?

[OingoBoingo]

Yeah the BO oder will get better but frequent showers and deodorant are always good.

I sure hope so. I already take 8 showers a day and the laundry lady suggested burning my gym clothes.

I'd kill for some Old Spice, but Thailand only has antiperspirant not deodorant.

[OingoBoingo]

Yeah the BO oder will get better but frequent showers and deodorant are always good.

I sure hope so. I already take 8 showers a day and the laundry lady suggested burning my gym clothes.

I'd kill for some Old Spice, but Thailand only has antiperspirant not deodorant.

[lovbyts]

I sure hope so. I already take 8 showers a day and the laundry lady suggested burning my gym clothes.

I'd kill for some Old Spice, but Thailand only has antiperspirant not deodorant.

hahahaha my wife just made me throw away my old spice cologne last week. Granted I think it was a couple of years older than she is.

Well if I was planning on visiting anytime soon I would be more than happy to bring you a care package. On my past visits I brought some friends from the UK Nutella and a few other items. I have some friends in Philippines I do the same thing. I start getting a list about a month before I go.

[OingoBoingo]

You guys are making me really want go visit.

Not a lot of customers around at the moment. Please do come. I can't keep all the bars in business by myself!

[OingoBoingo]

Tuesday was another good day at the gym. Really improved stamina, and I am avoiding the temptation to add weight for now.

Saw the doctor early Wednesday morning, and walked out of his office with five 2mL ampoules of T Cyp 100mg/mL. Visited a bunch of pharmacies and medical supply stores, and no one had any sterile mixing vials. Looks like I'll have to pre-load syringes again.

I asked the doctor if I could put the T and hCG in one syringe so I would only have to take one shot. He got a very stern look on his face and said, "No, oil and water don't mix." Was tempted to tell him oil and vinegar don't mix either and the combination is delicious, but just let it slide instead.

The T Cyp viscosity surprised me. After reading some of the posts on the forum, I was expecting it to be more like molasses.

Injected my first T Cyp on Thursday at 2PM. Current protocol is 15mg T Cyp and 100IU hCG daily. Currently giving myself 2 subcutaneous injections but think that might change over time.

As an experiment I used a 0.5mL BD Ultra Fine II syringe with a 30g needle. The syringe filled easily just like the hCG, and the T injection was effortless.

[hawk14dl]

You can load in the same syringe.

Of course they don't mix, you'll clearly be able to see where one stops and the other starts. . Lol

[OingoBoingo]

Thanks hawk14dl.

I will try double-loading in a couple weeks. I just want to get comfortable with what I'm currently doing first.

All my syringes are pre-filled and stored in the fridge. I've been letting them warm to room temperature for 15 or 20 minutes before injecting.

I noticed that the plunger action was not as smooth as a non-cooled cooled syringe. So I tried letting the syringe warm for 45 minutes and smooth plunger action returned.

Smooth plunger action makes a much more pleasant injecting experience, IMO.

[hawk14dl]

No need to refrigerate test, fyi

[OingoBoingo]

Thanks hawk14dl. I bought a toolbox to store all my gear, and put a lock on it to keep the curious out. Maybe it's just me, but because of the heat here I just feel better storing medicine in the refrigerator.

Last Wednesday, I double-loaded (hCG and T) 6 syringes. Thursday morning, used a double-loaded slin pin and subq'ed in my right thigh. Piece of cake. Friday and Saturday mornings, alternated thighs.

Was thinking about trying the glutes but need to work on my flexibility first.

For a few days face, neck, and upper chest were pretty flushed. That has gone away, and now just feel bloated around the belly.

Missed a couple workouts and went to a party (always bad news for my diet). Will hit the gym hard on Monday.

[OingoBoingo]

Last Thursday was the one week anniversary of starting Testosterone injections, and the two week anniversary of starting hCG injections.

Also last Thursday, I switched from SQ in the belly to SQ in the thigh. After doing it a couple times, it felt like it was more responsive, but maybe things are just ramping up on me.

Friday night, ate Mexican. Mentioned this because the chips might have had more salt than I've eaten in the last year.

Over the weekend, felt bloated. I noticed the definition between my delts and triceps is fading. Weight gain too, maybe around 5 pounds.

Monday I'm retaining water big time. The vascularity in my feet is gone, and I have cankles. Not good. No depression (in spite of that) or other problems that I've noticed.

Since this has been going on for a few days, I'm starting to discount the salt, and think it might be high E2.

I have a bottle of Anastrozole, and was wondering if it might be time to nibble a bit. I was thinking 0.25mg.

Forgot to add the Sensitive E2 Assay is not available here.

I'm hoping some veterans can offer advice.

[sfgiantsfan55]

Last Thursday was the one week anniversary of starting Testosterone injections, and the two week anniversary of starting hCG injections.

Also last Thursday, I switched from SQ in the belly to SQ in the thigh. After doing it a couple times, it felt like it was more responsive, but maybe things are just ramping up on me.

Friday night, ate Mexican. Mentioned this because the chips might have had more salt than I've eaten in the last year.

Over the weekend, felt bloated. I noticed the definition between my delts and triceps is fading. Weight gain too, maybe around 5 pounds.

Monday I'm retaining water big time. The vascularity in my feet is gone, and I have cankles. Not good. No depression (in spite of that) or other problems that I've noticed.

Since this has been going on for a few days, I'm starting to discount the salt, and think it might be high E2.

I have a bottle of Anatrozole, and was wondering if it might be time to nibble a bit. I was thinking 0.25mg.

Forgot to add the Sensitive E2 Assay is not available here.

I'm hoping some veterans can offer advice.

your comments are oddly specific and advanced for an alleged "nube".

[OingoBoingo]

your comments are oddly specific and advanced for an alleged "nube".

Well, I don't know what part of my post is advanced, but I'm trying to be specific because I live on the other side of the planet than most people here and if I leave things out the back and forth could drag on for weeks. I'm just trying to be as complete as I can to get good responses.

Maybe it's just the salt, I don't know. But it seems like too long.

Maybe there is less fat in my thighs than my belly so the shots are more effective causing E2 to rise.

Maybe considering the half-life of Cypionate , after a week of injections I'm carrying a full load and E2 is rising.

Maybe it's a combination of 2 or 3 of the above. I just don't know.

Rereading my post, I guess I don't know that I'm retaining water, but because of my feet and ankles I suspect I am.

Other than that, I don't know what to say.

If the Sensitive E2 Assay was available here, I could run out and get blood drawn if I'm worried. But it's not.

If the veterans think it's worth waiting a couple days, I can do that.

But I'm prepared if it's time to do something about it.

[The_Crawfish]

Not saying you're right or wrong about the E2/bloat thing...BUT for me personally, I've noticed since I started TRT, my body is much more responsive to sodium/salt. On my "carb up" eat shitty day, I can easily gain 3-5 lbs in 2 days, but a day or so later, I lose it all, usually by pissing it out.

[OingoBoingo]

Thanks The_Crawfish.

Decided to give it a few more days to see if I'm hypersensitive to salt.

I was awakened at 3AM with an itchy left nipple. By 7AM my hands and feet felt stiff. No noticeable reduction of edema.

At 7:30AM took my daily injection along with 0.25mg of Anastrozole.

We'll see how it goes.