Dr. Prescribed Me Clomid... Thoughts

**eightythree** · 03-17-2015, 05:23 PM

My last morning Testosterone test was right around 500 (last 3 tests were in the low 400s range) with 15 free testosterone and low 2's in LH/FSH. My uro said he wanted me to try 25mg Clomid ED to see if it helps with my libido/energy/mood issues. Any thoughts on this? Clomid seems to have pretty mixed reviews on it and I've always been pretty hesistant to take prescriptions

**OingoBoingo** · 03-17-2015, 06:50 PM

Just yesterday I heard a radio interview with Dr. Crisler recorded a few years ago in which he said he starts patients off on Clomid, if the outcome is poor moves them to hCG mono-therapy, and if that fails, only then starts Testosterone therapy .

Gotta admit I was pretty surprised by that because he seems to discount hCG mono-therapy in his seminars.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-17-2015, 06:52 PM

.....

**eightythree** · 03-17-2015, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

Just yesterday I heard a radio interview with Dr. Crisler recorded a few years ago in which he said he starts patients off on Clomid, if the outcome is poor moves them to hCG mono-therapy, and if that fails, only then starts Testosterone therapy .

Gotta admit I was pretty surprised by that because he seems to discount hCG mono-therapy in his seminars.

What about the dosage... it seems people dose all over the place. I was told to do 25mg daily. I've seen 25mg EOD 12.5mg ED 12.5mg EOD as well.

**kelkel** · 03-17-2015, 08:02 PM

Dosage will be determined by BW. Your doc will titrate accordingly.

Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management o... - PubMed - NCBI

**OingoBoingo** · 03-17-2015, 08:05 PM

Many different things could cause your symptoms. I wouldn't second guess your doctor at this point.

Check out the Finding a Physician sticky for a list of blood tests we like to see.

If you can post results (with ranges) you may get more advice.

**eightythree** · 03-17-2015, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

Many different things could cause your symptoms. I wouldn't second guess your doctor at this point.

Check out the Finding a Physician sticky for a list of blood tests we like to see.

If you can post results (with ranges) you may get more advice.

Imgur

I posted these in another thread. Also, if this doesn't work if I stop will everything go back to normal?

**OingoBoingo** · 03-17-2015, 09:30 PM

You're in the lowest quartile of Total Testosterone , which, statistically, is not a good place to be for health and happiness.

Vitamin D is really bad. I'd start supplementing with 10,000IU daily of D3. And if it were me, I'd do a few days (but only a few days) at 50,000IU daily just to get started.

There was a three-year study run in New Zealand where they gave the elderly yearly doses of 500,000IU of D3, and another Italian study where they gave elderly participants yearly doses 600,000IU of Vitamin D3. What we learned from these studies is that the half-life of Vitamin D3 supplements is about 6 months. And although there was no significant reports of hypercalemia, there was a significant increase in falls that resulted in fractures. Dr. Michael Holick opined that it was not the Vitamin D that caused the falls, but rather increased activity in the elderly because they were feeling better.

Vitamin D is important. Don't take it lightly.

What's your DHT?

**eightythree** · 03-17-2015, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

You're in the lowest quartile of Total Testosterone , which, statistically, is not a good place to be for health and happiness.

Vitamin D is really bad. I'd start supplementing with 10,000IU daily of D3. And if it were me, I'd do a few days (but only a few days) at 50,000IU daily just to get started.

There was a three-year study run in New Zealand where they gave the elderly yearly doses of 500,000IU of D3, and another Italian study where they gave elderly participants yearly doses 600,000IU of Vitamin D3. What we learned from these studies is that the half-life of Vitamin D3 supplements is about 6 months. And although there was no significant reports of hypercalemia, there was a significant increase in falls that resulted in fractures. Dr. Michael Holick opined that it was not the Vitamin D that caused the falls, but rather increased activity in the elderly because they were feeling better.

Vitamin D is important. Don't take it lightly.

What's your DHT?

I'm not sure what my DHT is, and I'm taking 10k UIs of D3 daily to get my levels up. Does the body return to the old baseline typically after you stop taking Clomid?

**OingoBoingo** · 03-18-2015, 02:53 AM

IIRC, Clomid is a part of restart therapy for AAS induced Hypogonadism; however, depending on how long it's been since using AAS and one's age, the odds of success are increasing poor.

I have heard that in some cases after 3 - 6 months, some non-AAS Hypogonadal men no longer need Clomid. But I remain skeptical.

As I mentioned above, Dr. Crisler has used Clomid therapy in the past, and that would make me feel okay about it if my doctor wanted to try it. At this point, I'd wait it out and see if it works for you.

Many things are important for libido, and DHT is one of them; too low or too high and there's no joy. Life Extension Foundation recommends mid-range.

**FakeLove** · 03-18-2015, 06:41 AM

I haven't been reading the other thread so I'm just assuming the diagnosis is right.

For me starting clomid with that low LH sounds quite logical, especially if you're young and experiencing symptoms. It's called the HPTA-restart. If your testicles are working, it should result as higher testosterone levels . The LH response should be seen already in a week or so. It remains to be seen if the restart would work in your case, meaning you would maintain those higher T levels after stopping it.

Stopping Clomid later on shouldn't affect to your own T production. In the worst case you could return to your base level.

The risk with clomid is that in some cases it could increase the E2, which could result negatively in mood, libido and sexual capability. It's of course easy to confirm with labs and to control with AI, if needed. It's not a problem for everyone.

**APIs** · 03-18-2015, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

Just yesterday I heard a radio interview with Dr. Crisler recorded a few years ago in which he said he starts patients off on Clomid, if the outcome is poor moves them to hCG mono-therapy, and if that fails, only then starts Testosterone therapy .

Gotta admit I was pretty surprised by that because he seems to discount hCG mono-therapy in his seminars.

IDK, I'd be furious if I actually had to pay someone for such a crappy protocol...lol.

**FakeLove** · 03-18-2015, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by APIs

IDK, I'd be furious if I actually had to pay someone for such a crappy protocol...lol.

Sure, most of us would. But if the person is secondary and young then such an approach could be quite reasonable. Though my personal feeling is that the success rate with Clomid HPTA-restart ain't that high. Still, if I would have been secondary I would have wanted to try it first.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-18-2015, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

IDK, I'd be furious if I actually had to pay someone for such a crappy protocol...lol.

Having slept on it, it occurred to me that Clomid therapy is much less invasive than either hCG mono-therapy or Testosterone . And if Clomid did the trick, it would be a good thing.

**Jake14** · 03-20-2015, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Dosage will be determined by BW. Your doc will titrate accordingly.

Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management o... - PubMed - NCBI

A friend of mine was on TRT using a gel and his total test score fell to 160. So his doctor prescribed Clomind, 50mg a day 5 days on and 2 days off. His free test has rose to 1050. I was wondering if people are seeing this type of protocal now and what people thoughts were on a clomid only protocol. I am using injections but given these results I may consider clomid.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-21-2015, 02:51 AM

It seems there are more posts about it now than there were a year ago.

If my doctor had suggested it, I might have given it a try, but now feel pretty good on my current protocol and don't fancy the idea of changing horses.

**APIs** · 03-22-2015, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

Having slept on it, it occurred to me that Clomid therapy is much less invasive than either hCG mono-therapy or Testosterone. And if Clomid did the trick, it would be a good thing.

I agree, but I havent seen a lot of Clomid success stories posted here so that's what I'm going by until something tells me different. IMO if it aint broke, dont try & fix it...

**eightythree** · 03-26-2015, 05:14 PM

I have no idea what I'm supposed to feel and how fast with Clomid but it's been a little over a week @ 25mg ED and I don't notice much of a difference. My testicles definitely look bigger which is funny. Everything else seems the same though.

Not much of an update but figured I would post something for guys interested in this.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-26-2015, 07:25 PM

Interested indeed!

Always good to have more data.

**eightythree** · 03-26-2015, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

Interested indeed!

Always good to have more data.

I'll be doing bloodwork at the 2 week mark and the 1 month mark. I'll keep you guys posted.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-26-2015, 10:41 PM

We'll be here!

**CarlosSemiDanger** · 03-27-2015, 02:55 PM

It takes for a while to Clomid to kick in (and so apparently does TRT) so just sit tight for a month or so. They say that Clomid doesn't give the same subjective benefits as TRT and I can agree that I didn't feel like a new person even when my T total was around 900. Having said that my energy levels were better and that was all that mattered to me.

**eightythree** · 03-28-2015, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by CarlosSemiDanger

It takes for a while to Clomid to kick in (and so apparently does TRT) so just sit tight for a month or so. They say that Clomid doesn't give the same subjective benefits as TRT and I can agree that I didn't feel like a new person even when my T total was around 900. Having said that my energy levels were better and that was all that mattered to me.

How was your experience? What dosage? Any sides?

**seriouslifter** · 03-28-2015, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by eightythree

What about the dosage... it seems people dose all over the place. I was told to do 25mg daily. I've seen 25mg EOD 12.5mg ED 12.5mg EOD as well.

I have had the same question. i been doing 25mg ed for few months now and i was thinking maybe switching to 25mg EOD. Have you found an answer?

**eightythree** · 03-28-2015, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by seriouslifter

I have had the same question. i been doing 25mg ed for few months now and i was thinking maybe switching to 25mg EOD. Have you found an answer?

I guess it boils down to how you respond individually based on bloodwork. Some guys have serious sides at 25mg ED so they do 12.5mg ED or 25MG EOD. How has your experience been with Clomid after months of taking it?

**CarlosSemiDanger** · 03-28-2015, 09:02 AM

I was taking only 10mg EOD and that got my total into 642 (free 274) after three months of taking and after another three months it was up to 901 (free 331). My LH was 6.2 at the highest that wasn't too high.

**seriouslifter** · 03-28-2015, 09:50 AM

i guess the only way to know its working is blood work then again im taking cialis also, so i dont even know which one is working. i got verified i had low T with blood work and all this came about when i really never was in the mood for sex daily and also would have ED sometimes. Ever since clomid/cialis daily i havent had any ED issues and get better blood flow. For sex cravings i only get if i go a few days without it.

so to answer question how did i feel with clomid daily... i got no sides. only in the beginning i got nightmares and i get face flushes and nose stuffy here and there, but that could be due to cialis. Do you think i should try 25mg eod? Again how would i know whats working with no blood work.

**eightythree** · 05-28-2015, 09:01 AM

Ok boys results are in and they seem good. I've been on 25MG ED for about a month and a half.

Total Testosterone 1103 348-1197
Free Testosterone 37.3 HIGH 8.7-25.1
DHEA 441 138-475
SGHB 29.8
Estradiol 67.3
LH 5.0 2-6
FSH 4.9 1.5-124
Prolactin 10 4-15.2

The Estradiol seems high, but I don't seem to have any major issues with mood. My original symptoms seem to be cleared up. To be honest though I don't feel that SUBSTANTIALLY different then before, but I definitely think I feel better. I'm assuming with the Estradiol, I need to dial back to maybe 25mg EOD.

**FakeLove** · 06-02-2015, 04:23 AM

You probably would feel better by bringing that Estradiol down to normal. Aromasin or Anastrozole could do wonders.

**kelkel** · 06-02-2015, 08:22 AM

Agree with FakeLove. Bringing it down a bit and further testing using a Sensitive Estrogen Assay would be prudent.

**energizer bunny** · 06-02-2015, 11:09 AM

I tried clomid for a few months under supervision of an endo, my test went up but i didnt feel any different so stoped, had blood work a few month later and my levels had went back down again. Its all good and well getting numbers in check but if you arent feeling better then the numbers dont mean jack!

good luck mate

**kelkel** · 06-02-2015, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by energizer bunny

Its all good and well getting numbers in check but if you arent feeling better then the numbers dont mean jack!

Very good point above. For many people clomid or HCG Mono just does not give the same subjective benefits of testosterone therapy .

**LikeAMachine** · 06-03-2015, 07:35 AM

My Doc started me on Clomid, it did nothing for me. He said he was trying to get my system to produce (kick start) naturally test production. Good for him for trying, it just didn't work.