Low Testosterone



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  1. #1
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    Getting first Testosterone Cypionate Shot today.

    Does anyone know how long it will be before I feel the effects of a 200mg testosterone shot?

    I am getting a shot today for 200mg. I am supposed to get one every four weeks for 4 monhts then tests again.

    I also ordered a 10ml 200mg/ml vial from european source before I was diagnosed by doctor. Is 200mg every four weeks enough when my testosterone levels are at 180-280 range? I was going to do 100m a week and see if this helped me.

    Suggestions? Thanks.

  2. #2
    finny is offline Associate Member
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    The problem with once every four weeks shots is that your hormones will be all over the place. For some reason HRT docs don't favour more frequent shots and then they say that if one switches to shots, he will experience ups and downs - go figure.

    100mg/wk range would ideal.

    Then again, it's better to work with your doc and see how it goes. When he sends you for testing again, make sure you go 3 weeks after the shot to get a sense of where you are.

  3. #3
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    Do you know how long before I feel the shot qand feel better?

  4. #4
    66cobra is offline New Member
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    It will take up to three week for some one to feel the effects of taking test. But those are the ones who will take weekly dosages. Do you know what kind of test you are taking? Most likely it will be test e or test c.

  5. #5
    lacey231 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm really suprised by some doctors.

    Make sure when you get your blood tests done they are near the end of the month.

    I've seen test cyp has a 12 days half life, and I've seen from some pubmed articles that say a 0.7 day half life per carbon which with 8 carbons would put it at 5.6 days. I don't know which to believe but either way it's not enough.

    Say a 12 day half life.
    Day1-200mg
    Day12-100mg
    day24-50mg
    day30-37.5mg

    Say a 5 day half life
    Day1-200mg
    day5-100mg
    day10-50mg
    day15-25mg
    day20-12.5mg
    day25-6.25
    day30-3.125

    I'm guessing it's close to the first one but even still look how much Tests is in you compared to say 1.

    Compared to someone who takes 200mg every 2 weeks with a 14 day half life. (just to make calculations easier)

    day1-200
    day14-300(100)
    day28-350(150)
    day42-375(175)
    day56-387.5(187.5)
    day70-395.

    So with that way you're building up to close to 400mg Test in your blood levels, and being much more stable then 1x a month injects of 200. Even better yet would be 100mg/week as it would provide even more stable blood levels.
    Last edited by lacey231; 05-31-2007 at 07:09 PM.

  6. #6
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you. I just got out of the doctors and got my shot. My doctor was asst prof of medicine at loma linda university. Endocrinologist. He is rather old but seems to know his stuff. There is on on research paper by the american association of clinical endocrinologists and he is not following that protocol. I asked why only a month and why i can't get the t cyp and inject myself and he said he can't let me have it because it's controlled and body builders abuse it so I have to go in and get the injects at Kaiser. I am fearful to give myself injects with the stuff I ordered because i could mess up my blood tests with them. Oh well what to do what to do??? I feel so much like crap all the time and I've run out of savings have to get back to work to make on on living again.

  7. #7
    zaggahamma's Avatar
    zaggahamma is online now Mr. Moderation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawncy
    he said he can't let me have it because it's controlled and body builders abuse it so I have to go in .
    i hope this doesn't become the norm

  8. #8
    finny is offline Associate Member
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    As far as feeling 'better', it might be a hit and miss, ***ending on your condition.

    In my case, over 6 mth period my sex drive went to non-existent. Feeling tired all the time seemed to follow as well. In a nutshell, lost my zest for life. Got tested, bloodwork and questionnaire, and it was decided that low test is the culprit.

    Before I commenced my HRT, I decided to do my first AAs cycle of test e @ 500mg/wk. I did 10 weeks of it - in the beginning it got worse. After about 3-4, things improved, but not to the point were I was 'fixed'. Still, some days when I got home, all I wanted to do is lay down and sleep - lethargy persisted.

    Now, that my cycle is over, I'm going with my HRT as prescribed. Last visit to the doc, I told him that some days are still not so hot. He told me that it takes time to build consistent test levels. So, I'm hoping it will improve with time.

    Sex drive has improved. I find that after my HCG injects, it improved even more - but that only last a day or two after the application. Have to ask the doc about that or why it would be the case.

    If adrogel is an option for you, I would opt for that - it's expensive for one. ***ending on your family situtation, transfer might be a concern even my doc reassures me that it's rather unlikely.

  9. #9
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    THanks for your feedback. Though it is disappointing for me. It is possible that you've destroyed your body in some fashion with your high steroid uses but I don't know about that. I hope that I get better, like you said - now that I'm on HGH and got the Testosterone shot yesterday I'm totally tired, yesterday I was absolutely beat and couldn't keep my eyes open at 8PM.

    How long before you started the HCG injections? Perhaps I could start those earlier than 5 weeks out. The doctor ways I need the injections for 4 months before they determine levels again with blood work.

    I was hoping this would make me feel better and able to work better.

    Jawncy

  10. #10
    lacey231 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by finny
    As far as feeling 'better', it might be a hit and miss, ***ending on your condition.

    In my case, over 6 mth period my sex drive went to non-existent. Feeling tired all the time seemed to follow as well. In a nutshell, lost my zest for life. Got tested, bloodwork and questionnaire, and it was decided that low test is the culprit.

    Before I commenced my HRT, I decided to do my first AAs cycle of test e @ 500mg/wk. I did 10 weeks of it - in the beginning it got worse. After about 3-4, things improved, but not to the point were I was 'fixed'. Still, some days when I got home, all I wanted to do is lay down and sleep - lethargy persisted.

    Now, that my cycle is over, I'm going with my HRT as prescribed. Last visit to the doc, I told him that some days are still not so hot. He told me that it takes time to build consistent test levels. So, I'm hoping it will improve with time.

    Sex drive has improved. I find that after my HCG injects, it improved even more - but that only last a day or two after the application. Have to ask the doc about that or why it would be the case.

    If adrogel is an option for you, I would opt for that - it's expensive for one. ***ending on your family situtation, transfer might be a concern even my doc reassures me that it's rather unlikely.
    Are you making sure estrogen is in the right place? if it's too high it can give you all the same symptoms as low test. So if your test is high enough you would still feel not great.

  11. #11
    ili
    ili is offline New Member
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    Go with the once a week shots for sure,you will feel great,once a month is to inconsistant with levels.

  12. #12
    mmabox is offline New Member
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    Hey Jawncy. I have been on HRT for a couple of years and it has been a life changing experience for me in the best way. The once of month Test Cyp is a very bad way to go about your HRT. You will need once a week injections. Also, when you get your blood work you need to retest the day before your next injection. Timing is critical when determining your stable test levels. Also, your natural test is going to be shut down so ask your doctor about HCG . I take 200mg of test cyp a week and 500 iu of HCG twice a week along with .5 of Anastrozole twice a week as well. It took about a year of testing and retesting to get me in the right spot. Now I retest every 6 months. Good luck!

  13. #13
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    mmabox

    You know I talked to my Doctor about HCG for further enhancement of Testosterone and a prevention of the gonad shrink but he said he does not treat that way. I also told him about the once a week injections instead of the mointhly ones and he does not do it that way either. I don't really know what to do. I'd rather have a prescription for the Testosterone and inject myself and I suggested to him but he won't do that as the HMO does not allow ME to get the prescription. I ordered Testosterone from China so it's really cheap over there and I'll just start doing it myself. But I am in a dilemna since I want to be the BEST I can be and I'll have to wait 4 months now with once a month injections or mess up my treatment with this doctor. He said because my Thyroid T3 levels were low that this can affect my testosterone and that he did not even want to treat me with testosterone yet. I told him I was desperate to feel better since I've run out of monty for the most part after 1.5 years of being sick and I"ll have to have money soon. So he did treat me. He said after four months of once a week injections he will see if I need them once every two weeks or once every three weeks and possibly more testosterone. He said it could take up to a year to balance the homrone levels and achieve full cellular saturation. I think I am going to end up self-treating for this. I believe everyone that once a month is too long a time frame but if my doc won't do it then I either do it myself or find another doctor and go through all of this all over again. So damn much troulble. I could also just give myself the once a week injections anyway and just tell him thwat's what I've been doing and give myself a 50mg shot the week before my Kaiser shot and 50mg the week after my kaiser shot so my blood levels don't go sky high and aromatize. Gynocomastia is one thing I DON"T need. I do have anastrozole and clomiphene citrate as well as HCG which is coming in from an order almost a month ago. I'll give myself the HCG shots starting in a few weeks. Perhaps I'll give myself a shot once a week until the last monthly shot when the blood test is taken the day before the shot and the day after the shot like mmabox and others have suggested I still don't know yet.

    Will I screw up the results of the blood work the last monht if I do a once a week 100mg shot myself and then don't give myself any shots the last month? Will I screw up the results of the blood work if I take twice weekly injections of 250mg HCG two days prior and 1 day prior to the testosterone shot?

    I know the half life of Testosterone from the list above which was generously provided so I know the testosterone should not be in the blood for that long but I don't know about the HCG.

    Thanks for your assistance.

  14. #14
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmabox
    Hey Jawncy. I have been on HRT for a couple of years and it has been a life changing experience for me in the best way. The once of month Test Cyp is a very bad way to go about your HRT. You will need once a week injections. Also, when you get your blood work you need to retest the day before your next injection. Timing is critical when determining your stable test levels. Also, your natural test is going to be shut down so ask your doctor about HCG. I take 200mg of test cyp a week and 500 iu of HCG twice a week along with .5 of Anastrozole twice a week as well. It took about a year of testing and retesting to get me in the right spot. Now I retest every 6 months. Good luck!
    Do you use clomiphene or nolvadex or anestrozole for Estadiol (estriole?) estrogen control or only the HCG ?

  15. #15
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    IronUte is offline Junior Member
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    First Shot

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawncy
    Does anyone know how long it will be before I feel the effects of a 200mg testosterone shot?

    I am getting a shot today for 200mg. I am supposed to get one every four weeks for 4 monhts then tests again.

    I also ordered a 10ml 200mg/ml vial from european source before I was diagnosed by doctor. Is 200mg every four weeks enough when my testosterone levels are at 180-280 range? I was going to do 100m a week and see if this helped me.

    Suggestions? Thanks.
    Hey Jawncy.

    My doc had me on 200 mgs every 2 weeks and I had bad "ups and downs" like I was going through andropause every other week. I now am able to self inject (convinced the doc) and do 100 mg's every week. No ups and downs...you gotta find out what works best for you.

    IronU

  16. #16
    mmabox is offline New Member
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    Jawncy you are def in a predicament. What kind of test did you order from China? Cypionate ? If so I would say don't self medicate if you are trying to do things right with the doctor as you probably will not get accurate test readings and from the sound of your doctor he may not treat you anymore if he knows you are self medicating. Did he offer to put you on Thyroid replacement for your low T3? I was told by my HRT doctor that Hypothyroidism can cause low test levels as well and geting your T3 optimized helps move everything up and along.

  17. #17
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    Testosterone Cypionate . I did an excel spreadsheet half life analysis based on a 12 day half. I took another 100mg today just BECAUSE it won't kick into the figures in three months time. It is still too far away for these shots to have an effect overall in my blood saturation levels. I ordered HGH from China but the testosterone from another place. The brand is Balkan I think brand name. Strength 200mg/ML. Ten ML vial. He did put me IMMEDIATELY on a T3 replacement. This is due to my body's own T4 to T3 conversion deficit. So I am on Armour thyroid now. Now I can't stop sweating all the time. My doctor said the same thing about the Testosterone. My testosterone is now at 235. It was at 152 or thereabouts. Low scale is 250 on my blood test. High of 800. He wants to see me at a low of 250 and a hight of 500. I think that's too low from what I've read but after they are adjusted in a stable manner I"ll bring it up myself incrementally I think.

    I love this board!!! It has been so helpful.

    Thank you for your comments. It does not seem like it is kicking in very quickly.

  18. #18
    ottomaddox's Avatar
    ottomaddox is offline "Better Safe Than Sorry"
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    Hello Jauncy, I have Kaiser insurance too, I'm also on TRT as well and am prescribed Androderm patches. I've been on them for about 6 months, my skin now looks like a patch work quilt. When I started TRT my levels were very low too, sub 200, now they hover in the 1000 area. I would love to switch to an injectable, but your Kaiser horror story sound too familiar.
    Good luck,
    CR

  19. #19
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    xraymind is offline New Member
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    every week is the way to go, if i were you i would rather go without than once a month for reasons everyone else mentioned.

  20. #20
    Stat1951 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawncy
    Thank you. I just got out of the doctors and got my shot. My doctor was asst prof of medicine at loma linda university. Endocrinologist. He is rather old but seems to know his stuff. There is on on research paper by the american association of clinical endocrinologists and he is not following that protocol. I asked why only a month and why i can't get the t cyp and inject myself and he said he can't let me have it because it's controlled and body builders abuse it so I have to go in and get the injects at Kaiser. I am fearful to give myself injects with the stuff I ordered because i could mess up my blood tests with them. Oh well what to do what to do??? I feel so much like crap all the time and I've run out of savings have to get back to work to make on on living again.

    No, he most definitely does NOT know his stuff!

    And hs comments concerning self inject IM are BS. I am on prescription Test Cyp (have been for a couple years) and self-inject legally twice a week - plus twice a week subQ for HcG .

    If you can PM me or whatever, I can send you some links with info that you can use to educate yourself and then hopefully educate him. If it doesn't educate him, then find a doctor who will do it right. He is currently using not just "the old protocol", but the protocol done even before that (like in the 1950s) and is using levels way too low. You are gonig tob be in for a rollercoaster ride where you'll feel preety good for a couple days, will feel okay for a couple more, will feel lousy for several and then will feel completely crappy - worse than before even - for the rest of the month!

    Just because the guy is an Endo who is also an asst prof at some university does NOT mean that he has kept up-to-date with advances in the fid (and to think of what he's been teaching others on this subject!).

  21. #21
    Jawncy is offline Junior Member
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    Dr. of Pharmacy

    Two days ago, "Mother Kaiser" sent me to a Doctor of Pharmacy who really GETS all of this. As a result he said I'd never get what I want from Kaiser and that he would refer me to a physician in town who could help me and is a very open physician who he works closely with. He also said that he prefers a daily gell for testosterone instead of inejction due to the balancing of the dosing and no up and downs. Even weekly injects have ups and downs. He also said that the reason I won't get what I want is because Kaiser is "really, really, really managed care" everything is looked at from a financial perspective. He also said Kaiser doesn't believe in hormone replacement for the most part and really has no policy on it to speak of and no physician who will prescribe for it. I'm pleased someone knows all about this stuff and believes in it and understands it. He is not a physician but he knows pharmacy and biology well.

  22. #22
    Stat1951 is offline New Member
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    I would absolutely agree with all of that... with the provision that many males are - for whatever reason - very poor absorbers of the transdermal gels.

    At 20 grams (that's right two 10 gram packets) of AG I couldn't even quite get to a 500 Total T (220 - 1000) and on Testim (2 tubes of 10 grams) I got to about a 520-ish level.

    Plus I have 12 (coming upon 13) grandkids and all but 2 live within 2 miles of me. Way too much concern about transferring gel residue over to one of the kids as we play around a lot.

    When I switched over to Test Cyp self inject, I had a problem also with levels decreasing rapidly within the time period of one week, but tests showed that I have a super efficient P450 system (which overall is a good thing), so we simply adjusted to doing two IM shots a week (every 3.5 days) and things are completely smooth now.

    I am now maintaining a consistent and significantly higher level of Total T - and especially Free T - while using less of the T that I was with the gels... and the Test Cyp version is considerably cheaper than AG or Testim (and that is when comparing the same amounts and I'm using less T in the Test Cyp... 100 mg a week instead of 140 mg).

    But in any case, give it a try. Anything would be better than the protocol that you're on now... it has ZERO consistency!

  23. #23
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    comradebillyboy is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottomaddox
    Hello Jauncy, I have Kaiser insurance too, I'm also on TRT as well and am prescribed Androderm patches. I've been on them for about 6 months, my skin now looks like a patch work quilt. When I started TRT my levels were very low too, sub 200, now they hover in the 1000 area. I would love to switch to an injectable, but your Kaiser horror story sound too familiar.
    Good luck,
    CR
    My doctor will put me on the patch soon. I hope to get results as good as yours. The problem is, if you want weekly injections, you will have to either go to an overpriced and ethically dubious HRT clinic or buy illegally. I have done both and am very pleased that my doctor will prescribe the patch for me and my insurance will pay. She wants my levels in the high normal range, which is fine with me since I have no need to do cycles.

  24. #24
    Stat1951 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by comradebillyboy
    My doctor will put me on the patch soon. I hope to get results as good as yours. The problem is, if you want weekly injections, you will have to either go to an overpriced and ethically dubious HRT clinic or buy illegally. I have done both and am very pleased that my doctor will prescribe the patch for me and my insurance will pay. She wants my levels in the high normal range, which is fine with me since I have no need to do cycles.


    I'm sorry, but I must be missing something here... Are you located outside of the United States (and if so must have different laws)? Here in the States, weekly injections (or twice a week or daily or whatever) of Test (not anabolic steroids per se, but actual Testosterone ) is completely legal and self-injection is fully legal. And you don't need to "go to an overpriced and ethically dubious HRT clinic or buy illegally" for that also - again, unless you are located elsewhere.

    Also, I know of very few individuals who have luck (though there are some) with getting high normal ranges with any type of transdermal application (whether it is the patch, the gels or creams - except for some highly potent compounded creams). Generally guys go TO injections because they have problems getting anywhere above mid levels at best with transdermal applications (yes, I know there are many that do... but I know of a lot more who go from gels or patches to shots rather than the other way around).

    Also... what is this with cycles? HRT using injections of Test isn't "cycled', it is a continuous process - like putting on a patch every day or rubbing in a couple tubes of gel every day, only it consists of doing an IM shot once or twice a week (if your doctor is up on their protocol).

    Like I said, maybe I am missing something here and we're talking about some other location aside from the USA in which case then ya' gotta' do the best that you can do with what ya' got!

  25. #25
    graeme87 is offline Member
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    why don't you run test prop along with ur trt, that way when u stop the prop (just before a blood test) ur test levels will fall to where the trt would have them due to the short half life of prop.

  26. #26
    TrennK is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawncy
    Does anyone know how long it will be before I feel the effects of a 200mg testosterone shot?

    I am getting a shot today for 200mg. I am supposed to get one every four weeks for 4 monhts then tests again.

    I also ordered a 10ml 200mg/ml vial from european source before I was diagnosed by doctor. Is 200mg every four weeks enough when my testosterone levels are at 180-280 range? I was going to do 100m a week and see if this helped me.

    Suggestions? Thanks.
    Bummer, ever 4 weeks,

  27. #27
    groverman1's Avatar
    groverman1 is offline Cross Dressing Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme87
    why don't you run test prop along with ur trt, that way when u stop the prop (just before a blood test) ur test levels will fall to where the trt would have them due to the short half life of prop.
    Bingo!!!

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