Sub-Q testosterone HRT?

**Jumbo18** · 09-21-2009, 07:20 PM

does anybody have experience with shooting test sub-q for hrt?

my hrt is 100mg/week and supposed to be shot sub-q, anyone can share their experiences and also if it kicks in around the same time or they still feel the full effects?

**Big** · 09-21-2009, 07:28 PM

why sub-q?

**Jumbo18** · 09-21-2009, 07:46 PM

I'm not positive, it was advised by the doctor. he says it will make more stable blood levels. however it has not been a week yet, so i can't judge how it is. though i was hoping some others have some experience using this method.

**Big** · 09-21-2009, 08:01 PM

it would not make more stable blood levels, I would ask him to explain in detail why he feels it would.

**Jumbo18** · 09-21-2009, 08:03 PM

my blood work is needed in a month to see how I'm doing. am i better off with splitting the dose alone 50mg twice a week IM or one 100mg IM is fine? or just wait for my blood results?

**Big** · 09-21-2009, 08:10 PM

100mg once a week is fine, assuming it's test c.

**Jumbo18** · 09-21-2009, 08:12 PM

enanthate

**Big** · 09-21-2009, 08:16 PM

still fine, with higher (cycle) doses I would split twice a week, low doses is fine once a week.

**CHAP** · 09-21-2009, 08:18 PM

Im with big. Def need to get your dr to explain the reasoning behind his method. I think he is very inexperanced

**zaggahamma** · 09-21-2009, 10:09 PM

i've seen only one post before referring to sub q injections of test...sorry forgot where it went and agree with above...and post wut this unique doctor says

**fm2002** · 09-22-2009, 05:22 AM

Never heard of Sub-Q T injections for testosterone ??? I have heard the more frequent you are in your injections the less likely you'll have side affects like acne & gyno.

**marcus300** · 09-22-2009, 11:39 AM

This is a new way of delivery what doctors are looking into, ive never done this myself but I do know of someone online who as ran this protocol. Here is a study which will explain it better -

Subcutaneous Testosterone Injections Study

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement
has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide
variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however,
its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated
the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy.

Patients and methods: Between May and
September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving
10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for
41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL
200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior
abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated
to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration
is not officially approved by Health Canada. T
levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection
during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection
in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels
were measured however; the week 12 data are still being
collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T
was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit
0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During
the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in
pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l
(p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T
(25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1
(27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with
no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection
of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and
stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers
fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of
medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term
clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further
evaluation.

**fm2002** · 09-22-2009, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

This is a new way of delivery what doctors are looking into, ive never done this myself but I do know of someone online who as ran this protocol. Here is a study which will explain it better -

Subcutaneous Testosterone Injections Study

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS

M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada

Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement
has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide
variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however,
its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated
the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy.

Patients and methods: Between May and
September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving
10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for
41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL
200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior
abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated
to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration
is not officially approved by Health Canada. T
levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection
during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection
in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels
were measured however; the week 12 data are still being
collected.

Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T
was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit
0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During
the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in
pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l
(p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T
(25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1
(27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with
no adverse effects.

Conclusions: A once-week SC injection
of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and
stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers
fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of
medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term
clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further
evaluation.

Wow. Thanks for the case study. Can you give us this link of the thread of the person online you refer to ? It would be great if instead of once a week IM twice a week Sub-Q !!!

**ZonaDave** · 09-22-2009, 07:10 PM

i don't do Sub-Q shots but last month i started using 27g-5/8" needles for delt shots and it's been going great so far with no side affects. i'm shooting 70mg 2x/week.

delt shots using these needles are virtually pain free with no leakage or bleeding.

**fm2002** · 09-22-2009, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

i don't do Sub-Q shots but last month i started using 27g-5/8" needles for delt shots and it's been going great so far with no side affects. i'm shooting 70mg 2x/week.

delt shots using these needles are virtually pain free with no leakage or bleeding.

What test are you using ? I use Enthanate and understood it needs a big enough needle to push the oil based Test through the needle ?

**starkiller** · 09-22-2009, 07:30 PM

This is interesting, I will ask my Dr. as well on my next visit and post what he says.

**ZonaDave** · 09-22-2009, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by fm2002

What test are you using ? I use Enthanate and understood it needs a big enough needle to push the oil based Test through the needle ?

i'm using cypionate so i'm pretty sure it's the same viscosity. the strange part is when i was using 25g-1" in the quad, i had to push pretty hard and that's working the plunger with my thumb.

after doing some research i thought i'd give the insulin needles a try and i was surprized by how easy it was. i already had the needles because they're the same ones my doc gave me for B-12.

it takes a little longer to draw the T out of the vial but it shoots pretty easy. to draw the T out of the vial, i pull the plunger all the way back until it fills to my dosage.

the needle i'm using is a B-D 329412

**Cavedyvr** · 10-04-2009, 02:40 PM

ZonaDave,
To make things even easier, use a 19ga to draw your test up and then switch to the smaller ga. Not only will you save time drawing up your test, you will start with a "factory" sharp needle increasing comfort.

**ythrashin** · 10-04-2009, 09:26 PM

I looked into this awhile ago... I couldnt find much info out about it. Its not a good idea. Just shoot it IM.

I wanted to open up more injection sites the first time I used Winny. I did research on injecting water based Winny sub-q. Found a bit of info about guys doing it.

Couldnt find any for sure info so I decided to experiment....
I tried shooting .5 cc sub-q... sterile abscess/knot that took months to go away. Cant even touch the site with HCG still to this day...

DONT SHOOT SUB-Q... bad idea...

**ZonaDave** · 10-05-2009, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Cavedyvr

ZonaDave,
To make things even easier, use a 19ga to draw your test up and then switch to the smaller ga. Not only will you save time drawing up your test, you will start with a "factory" sharp needle increasing comfort.

i can't change the needle tips on the syringes i use but that's ok because the shots are very comfortable as it is. i don't mind waiting a little longer to draw. i use the same needles for B-12 so for me it's very easy and economical, i only have to buy one type of needle for my TRT protocol.

**ythrashin** · 10-05-2009, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

i can't change the needle tips on the syringes i use but that's ok because the shots are very comfortable as it is. i don't mind waiting a little longer to draw. i use the same needles for B-12 so for me it's very easy and economical, i only have to buy one type of needle for my TRT protocol.

Cant change the tips? You using insulin syringes?

**ZonaDave** · 10-06-2009, 03:01 AM

yes, been using BD 329412 insulin needles for the last 6-7 weeks. i use the same needle to inject B-12 so now i just have to buy one type of needle for my TRT.

my latest blood results are in but i won't be able to see my doc until thursday or friday. i'll post my results as soon as i get them.

**ythrashin** · 10-06-2009, 11:43 AM

Nice you must have some very thin gear to be able to use 27g... Good deal...

**tominpa** · 10-06-2009, 07:12 PM

Im thinking of giving it a try, but am wondering the same thing ....how will oil based primo will fit through an insulin needle...Im having trouble with pain swelling and feverish feeling in my quads every time I inject IM.....I know "it helps not to be a *****" a quote I read and keep thinking but I would love to try it sub Q if at all possible. HGH injections every morning and I dont feel a thing.

**ythrashin** · 10-06-2009, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by tominpa

Im thinking of giving it a try, but am wondering the same thing ....how will oil based primo will fit through an insulin needle...Im having trouble with pain swelling and feverish feeling in my quads every time I inject IM.....I know "it helps not to be a *****" a quote I read and keep thinking but I would love to try it sub Q if at all possible. HGH injections every morning and I dont feel a thing.

I bet you'll regret it if you try it... I do... NEVER AGAIN!

**ZonaDave** · 10-07-2009, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by ythrashin

Nice you must have some very thin gear to be able to use 27g... Good deal...

not at all, it's Test Cyp.

it takes a little longer to draw out but it shoots pretty easy. someone asked me about the pressure a small needle like that can generate and the possibility of damaging tissue so i tested a needle with olive oil. i injected the oil down the sink drain and it came out in small drops no matter how hard i applied pressure to the plunger.

**NEMESIS RR** · 10-11-2009, 04:56 PM

sub with insulin needles are painless, never leaves a sore spot, and provides more exact dosages. No difference in feeling of well being between deep muscular and sub

**ythrashin** · 10-11-2009, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by NEMESIS RR;4901***

sub with insulin needles are painless, never leaves a sore spot, and provides more exact dosages. No difference in feeling of well being between deep muscular and sub

And you shoot Test Sub-Q? How much at one time?

**ZonaDave** · 10-12-2009, 07:25 PM

i've just got my blood results back after being on 27g - 5/8" needles for the past 6 weeks. i wasn't sure what this new method would do to my levels but as you can see all is well...

Daily
50mg Zinc
50mg DHEA
5000iu Vit D
Multi-Vit Pack

Weekly
Mon - 70mg T Cyp + .5mg Arimidex
Thu - 70mg T Cyp + .5mg Arimidex + 1,000iu B-12 Injectable

NOTE: i'm currently using 27g - 5/8" needle to inject T in my shoulders.

blood draw was on monday morning before any food or meds.

Blood Results:

Total T = 1251 (250-1100)
%Free T = 2.34 (1.5-2.2)
Free T = 292.3 (35.0-155.0)
E2 = 17 (8-43)
DHT = 79 (25-75)
DHEA = 459 (95-530)
IGF-I = 241 (91-246)
PSA = 1.0 (<4.1)

**ythrashin** · 10-12-2009, 09:12 PM

5/8 inch needles in the quads ok...thats IM. So I'm not surprised with your blood work... This is a sub-q thread...

**ZonaDave** · 10-13-2009, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by ythrashin;4***313

5/8 inch needles in the quads ok...thats IM. So I'm not surprised with your blood work... This is a sub-q thread...

actually at that length it's referred to as deep sub-q

**lovbyts** · 10-13-2009, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave;4***463

actually at that length it's referred to as deep sub-q

Still it's not quite the same as using an insulin syringe and doing real sub-q

**ythrashin** · 10-13-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave;4***463

actually at that length it's referred to as deep sub-q

Bullshit, you are not injecting into sub-q "fatty tissue". You are injecting into the muscle... IM = intramuscular injection.

I doubt you have enough fat on your delt to pinch so you inject only into fatty tissue...

If you use a 5/8 pin in a area like the stomach...YES you have enough tissue to shoot "deep sub-q"

**ythrashin** · 10-13-2009, 09:58 AM

BTW... when I shoot IM in my biceps, chest, calves and sometimes delts I sometimes use a 5/8 inch needle. Its all IM tho bro'... UNLESS YOU ARE SHOOTING INTO FATTY TISSUE...

**ZonaDave** · 10-13-2009, 02:43 PM

so what's the obsession with injecting into the fat?

**ythrashin** · 10-13-2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

so what's the obsession with injecting into the fat?

Guess it would be less painful and open up more injection sites.... If you want a abscess.

Already told these guys I tried it with winstrol and it didnt work out.

**ythrashin** · 10-13-2009, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by ZonaDave

so what's the obsession with injecting into the fat?

Do you still think injecting into the delts with 5/8 needle is deep sub-q?

**lovbyts** · 10-13-2009, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by ythrashin

Do you still think injecting into the delts with 5/8 needle is deep sub-q?

YES but close to IM

**canadian meat** · 10-13-2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jumbo18

enanthate

Updates? Im hoping you"ll post those blood results Im curious.

**ythrashin** · 10-13-2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

YES but close to IM

If you are going straight in with a 5/8 needle your injecting into muscle. Try shooting some Test into you stomach's subcutaneous tissue and tell me how that work out.

Perhaps you just cant shoot winstrol or water based AAS sub-q cause if I can still feel a knot where I injected it 6 months ago. .50 cc of water based winstrol...

http://myphlip.pearsoncmg.com/altpro...=6645&vid=1110