Beginner, needing advice

[zaggahamma]

There are clinics out there that aren't in it for your health. They will prescribe you 10-12 week "mini cycles"

Best route to take is to find an endocrinologist in your area and speak with them.....

~Haz~

i'm going into photography

[Jupiter2]

nwjt - I hope my insurance company is as gracious as yours. I'll have to submit for reimbursement once I get the paperwork. I've heard good things about United Health so I'm crossing my fingers.

[Jadam]

Good luck, Jup! Hope the insurance company helps you out.

[Jupiter2]

Today's the day!!! Expecting the delivery of my prescription. Excited and nervous at the same time lol. Will let you guys know how it goes after all is said and done.

[flatscat]

wow - I remember that day - it is really exciting - just don't pull the plunger back farther than you should. Remember more is not always better - especially at first, even though it is soooooo tempting. Good luck!

[Jupiter2]

Not good news I'm afraid. Apparently the order wasn't shipped last Thursday as was implied. I called the clinic today for tracking info. It took a couple of hours for the email to reach me but essentially the tracking number showed that the billing info. had just reached UPS. In other words they somehow managed to "forget" to ship the order. They didn't "forget" however to charge my credit card last week.

I'm hoping that this was just an oversight and not indicative of any funny business on the part of the company I've chosen to do business with. In any case it'll be a couple of more days of waiting impatiently.

[zaggahamma]

Not good news I'm afraid. Apparently the order wasn't shipped last Thursday as was implied. I called the clinic today for tracking info. It took a couple of hours for the email to reach me but essentially the tracking number showed that the billing info. had just reached UPS. In other words they somehow managed to "forget" to ship the order. They didn't "forget" however to charge my credit card last week.

I'm hoping that this was just an oversight and not indicative of any funny business on the part of the company I've chosen to do business with. In any case it'll be a couple of more days of waiting impatiently.

that would never get forgotten

hope u get it soon bro

[Jadam]

Damn, that's rough after the excitement you were feeling earlier. Hope they get it out to you quickly.

[Jupiter2]

Tracking info. shows the package in transit. I should have it tomorrow.

[Jupiter2]

Package arrived today. But another disappointment upon opening it as the sharps container and the insulin needles and syringes were apparently forgotten by the compounding pharmacy. I'm beginning to think this is all a sign.

I do have what I need for my Test injections and will administer the first one after supper. Wish me luck!

[zaggahamma]

Be thankful for what you got..maybe they'll rush out the missing supplies and throw in a month of GH for free for the mistake
but yes best of luck to you but just to let u know...luck is only needed for those without test!
keep us posted

[Jupiter2]

Nope. No free month of GH. But they are sending me the missing items via 2nd day air.

First injection went off without a hitch. Plan on doing the HCG on Monday, and continue with that rotation... Test on Thursdays, HCG on Mondays.

[Jupiter2]

Sharps container and insulin needles arrived this afternoon. Wasn't expecting them until tomorrow at the earliest.

Feeling no different as of yet but judging from everything I've heard that is to be expected. Best thing is no soreness whatsoever at the injection sight (Quad).

Forgot to mention that my Test vial contains 2.5mg of Progesterone in addition to the 200mg of Test. Is this normal? And what is the progesterone for?

[Jupiter2]

Don't abandon me now guys, I'm just getting started lol.

Will be doing my first HCG injection today. Script says 1ml (1000 iu) each week. Should I break this up and inject twice per week? Just about all of the research I've done seems to point me to sites where HCG is being used for dieting and those folks are injecting daily.

Also, I've got a 10 week supply of the stuff and from what I've read it tends to remain effective once mixed for about 6 weeks. Will it last me the 10 weeks if refrigerated as it is supposed to be?

[bowers32]

Don't abandon me now guys, I'm just getting started lol.

Will be doing my first HCG injection today. Script says 1ml (1000 iu) each week. Should I break this up and inject twice per week? Just about all of the research I've done seems to point me to sites where HCG is being used for dieting and those folks are injecting daily.

Also, I've got a 10 week supply of the stuff and from what I've read it tends to remain effective once mixed for about 6 weeks. Will it last me the 10 weeks if refrigerated as it is supposed to be?

Is this 500iu twice a week of HCG? if so that seems too much to start. If you feel you have to start at 500iu pay close attention to how it make you feel the next day... I started that high and it knocked me on my ass, espically the next day.

Most everyone on here would suggest to start low and slowly work your way up after labs....

[Jupiter2]

Bowers, the script reads:

"Inject 1ml (1000 iu) subcutaneously each week"

Nothing more, nothing less lol.

[Epic Ed]

I haven't run hCG yet, so I don't have any first hand advice to offer. Most of what I've read, though, indicates higher dose of hCG can leave you feeling a bit crappy. Not sure what that entails, but maybe someone else who has been down that road can chime in. If you're still debating on what to pin to day I'd hold off until you get more suggestions or cut the dose in 1/2 to 500iu.

[Vettester]

Personally, I'd start out with trying 250iu's x 2/wk to see how you do on it. From there maybe work up to 3x week. You're on 200mg of cyp, right? IMO you shouldn't need more than that for a continuous protocol, but run your BW in 6 weeks to see where things are at. Just don't do the 1000iu once a week drill, things will be much more stable with doing the smaller amounts mentioned above.

HCG is usually good for 60 days in the fridge. I've heard a few members say they think its potency starts to drop after 30 day, but I've never had any problems going a full two months with it.

[Jupiter2]

Thanks for taking the time to respond gang. I'm going to do 250 iu's twice per week and see how it goes.

Called the clinic earlier and the rep told me not to worry about diminshed effectiveness with the HCG . He said keeping it refrigerated after mixing should keep it stable for at least 120 days. As long as it remains effective for the next 10 weeks I'll be happy.

[Jupiter2]

Not ever having been good at math I decided to hold off on my first injection of HCG . I'm totally confused at this point and don't want to risk injecting too large an amount of the product.

My dilemma is this: I have been given a package of 10 short needle insulin syringes. They are labelled 1/2 cc for 50 units or less. My pea sized brain tells me that if 1cc equals 1ml, I would need to give myself 2 injections if I followed the doctor's prescription of injecting 1000 iu's once per week.

I agree with what has been stated that starting slower is the better way to go and wish to inject 250 iu's twice per week. Following the above formula it seems that I'll need to fill the syringe to the 25 unit mark in order to end up with 250 iu's, but I'm concerned that my reasoning is wrong and I don't want to make a mistake.

I'd appreciate some expert help on this. I hate sounding like a wimp but I don't want to do more harm than good with products that I obviously have no choice but to be on for the long term. Thanks in advance.

[Vettester]

Do you have 2 vials at 5000iu per vial, or is it just 1 vial at 10,000iu? Have you already mixed it with the bac water? If so, how many ml's did you mix with the HCG ?

[Jupiter2]

I have 1 vial at 10,000 iu's. And a container of 30ml of Bacteriostatic water. Have not yet mixed it. It is telling me to mix 10ml of the water to the powder.

[Vettester]

OK, got ya.

Yes, you can do 10ml of bac water with the HCG , which will = 10,000iu. It's a lot of water, but for the sake of doing the math it will be easier for you to keep track of this first round.

You should have a large syringe for mixing the water with the HCG.
-Disinfect the vials and syringes.
-Take the large syringe, inject into the HCG vial and withdraw 10ml of of air.
-Withdraw 2ml of bac water, inject it into the HCG vial, then mix gently by rolling between your palms and fingers.
-Finish reconstituting by adding the other 8ml of bac water. Roll gently again a few times and it's good to go.
-Put in the fridge immediately after.

10ml or 10cc = 10,000iu. So .250cc (1/4cc) will = 250iu.

Make sense? If I missed anything please let me know.

[Jupiter2]

Thx for the help Vette. Just did the injection. .25 cc's with a needle that looked to be no bigger than a quarter inch. Don't know how long this stuff takes to enter the system or how long it stays but I'll keep everyone informed of any significant developments if they occur.

[Vettester]

Thx for the help Vette. Just did the injection. .25 cc's with a needle that looked to be no bigger than a quarter inch. Don't know how long this stuff takes to enter the system or how long it stays but I'll keep everyone informed of any significant developments if they occur.

Yeah, sub-q needles are usually 5/16" in length. I presume you're up to speed with how and where to take the sub q shots? Figuring that's a "yes" since you've taken the plunge.

[Jupiter2]

Pinched the stomach and went in at a 45 degree angle. That's what I got from some of the clearer videos on youtube.

[Jupiter2]

Will be doing my second T injection tomorrow so here is my end of week 1 report.

No changes to mood or ability to deal with stress. As a matter of fact yesterday my stress level rose significantly for a two or three hour period and I found myself quite overwhelmed emotionally. My libido remains unchanged... just about zero. I've had a very subtle change to my sleep pattern. Finding it a bit easier to get up in the morning even though I'm still waking constantly throughout the night, but I'm still not finding myself overly motivated to get things done that need to get done.

Since the HCG injection on Monday I've noticed what appears to be a slight increase in testicular size. This happens occaisionally so I don't know if I can attribute it solely to the medication. I've also noticed that despite not having done a workout for about 3 weeks due to what I believe is tendonitis in my left forearm I seem to be gaining a bit in size. Probably some water weight gain. Also noticing a bit of tenderness in my right breast. Not significant and no discernable lump. I plan on waiting until the end of next week (Another T inject and 2 HCG injects) before chalking this up to a significant rise in my estrogen level and starting on the Anastrozole.

Appreciate any and all comments.

[bowers32]

That is a lot going on from just 2 injections.... I would think it would take a little longer than that to start seeing results of any kind. I am sure Vette and others with more expierence can chime in on that.

[Jupiter2]

Ya I agree. Weirdest thing is the size difference, while quite minor seemed to occur within a span of just a few hours. Woke up yesterday morning looking no different than the day before. Went back to bed around noon time as I was feeling very tired. Probably fell asleep around 1, woke up on and off until deciding to get out of bed at around 3 pm. Body felt different, can't really explain how, it just did. Went into the bathroom to shave and that's when I noticed that I seemed a bit "pudgier." This is why I'm thinking water gain.

As far as the breast tenderness goes, I had been experiencing a bit of that prior to beginning the TRT. I was actually surprised that my bloodwork showed my estrogen level to be as low as it was (18.3) because everything I read was leading me to the conclusion that I might have a problem with my estrogen level being too high. As I had been taking Saw Palmetto for sometime, I kind of formed a theory that it may have been responsible for the tenderness I was experiencing, so I stopped taking it a week or two prior to beginning TRT. The tenderness subsided during that time frame but re-emerged a few days ago despite the fact that I have not restarted the saw palmetto.

I'm not experienced enough to attribute any of this to the TRT, just reporting what has occurred since starting a week ago. Placebo effect? Could be. That's why I appreciate any and all comments.

[nwjt]

T injections are not going to help with dealing with stress. If anything, it will make it worse.

I did help reduce my stress level though in a round about way. It got rid of my depression, where I would worry all the time, and that would cause stress.

If you are prone to temper or getting stressed out over stuff it will only make it worse.

After 2 shots I had massive changes, including increased strength, drive, sex drive, will power etc.

THe only thing I am lacking now again is controlling my diet. I seem to be more hungry than usual like my blood sugar levels drop.

[Jupiter2]

Nwjt, I hear what you're saying concerning stress and I should have clarified what I was saying. The mild depression that I'm experiencing makes it very difficult to deal with problems as they arise. And trying to deal with more than 1 thing at a time can be overwhelming for me. I don't know if that is common with testosterone deficiency but that's the way it is for me.

I'm also dealing with a condition that I affectionately call "scatter-brained" because I don't know of a better term to adequately explain it. I consider myself a pretty literate person. Well educated and have always been very well spoken. But as of late I have found it extremely difficult to explain things if a question has been asked of me. Not so much a problem when writing in a forum such as this because I can think through what I am trying to expalin. But attempting to have this conversation with you face to face would be frustrating for me because I cannot seem to keep focused on the topic of conversation. Depression, stress and even, god forbid, early onset Alzheimer's are all causes of something like this, but I'm betting that it too is testosterone related in either a direct or indirect way.

As far as the shots go, I've only had one of each. I've been looking (hoping) for the equivalent of night and day changes and maybe that happens to some people. I'm sure they are occuring in me but at a far more subtle rate. Any change at this point will be welcome. The symptoms I'm experiencing are driving me crazy. At this point if all the TRT does for me is get me to the point of sleeping soundly through the night, that all by itself, may be enough to allow me to deal effectively with the routine rigors of daily life that we all experience.

[nwjt]

Do you lift weights? T is far more effective at everything it does if you do some anaerobic stuff like bench press and squats.

[Jupiter2]

Yes but I've had to stop recently to give my left arm a break. I believe it's tendonitis. My plan is to restart my workouts next week.

[Vettester]

Jupiter, stay on your regiment another 4 weeks and tell us how you feel then. Banking you'll see some positive improvements. It takes a bit ... One or two shots won't tell you that much.

As far as testosterone goes ... When the hormone levels are balance and optimized, you'll feel calmer and more relaxed. As far as "T" contributing to anger and that stuff, NON SENSE! If it's abused, OK ... If your levels are low, YES, but when your hormones are balance ... Think about it. Stress is alive and kicking with everyone. When I had low "T", my stress was worse because I didn't have a lot of natural confidence to deal with it properly, and my ability to rationalize objectively wasn't anywhere to be found. I still have stress, I have bad days, and I can get pissed off. "T" doesn't prevent these things from still happening, but it does give you a whole new set of tools to deal with it differently.

Can't stress lab work enough, especially during your first 6 months of TRT. You may just be having a bad week, plus your body is going through some changes just getting used to it. Also, maybe you're dealing with some anxiety issues. I can't say that I'm a stranger in that area either. The older I got, the worse it got, even on "T". Luckily it's not an all the time thing for me, but I do keep some beta blockers for the moments when it's needed (a little secret about me). Lastly, do what you can to keep fit, cardio, core, etc. That will definitely help your mindset.

[Jupiter2]

Thx for the kind words Vette. I feel as you do that with the right equipment you can accomplish things that would be almost impossible in their absence. This was the point I was trying to make. Depression is a malady that has a profound effect on everything. There are some days an inconsequential argument with a family member can leave you feeling as though the world is about to end. But on a different day, and in a different frame of mind you can recognize the same argument for what it really is... stupidity, and maybe avoid it in the first place. The key here is that the depression is being caused by the low T.

I've come to the conclusion, based on a bunch of research, and some fantastic discussion here that Testosterone may just be essential in solving a whole host of age related problems in men. At the very least, as you've already implied, it may be a key tool in lessening the effect of both aging and stress upon us.

I believe the clinic that I am working with intends to schedule bloodwork for me at the 6 month mark. I've got an appt. with my primary at the 3 month mark and will seek to have my bloodwork done at that time. As far as working out goes, I intend on being back at the gym next week. Working out has never been an issue for me. But like others on the forum, maintaining a healthy diet will be. I am not overweight at this time (157 lbs. @ 5'8") but I figure my body fat percentage is around 18%. I figure the gym will be able to convert that pretty quickly into muscle once my Test levels are back to where they should be. And I plan on introducing some light running into my program for cardio

[Vettester]

If I may suggest, run some lab work at the 6 week stage, then 2 months after that again. 3 months is way too long to see where you are at with your program. Like I mentioned, the first 6 months are critical. This is where you will find out how your body responds to HRT, and this is when you make the necessary adjustments to your protocol. IMO, 3 sets of labs should be ran in the first 6 months ... 6 weeks, 2 months thereafter, then 3 months after that. Quarterly lab work from thereon should suffice in maintaining a good HRT protocol. Just my .02

[Jupiter2]

Okie. I'll give the clinic a call tomorrow and arrange for bloodwork sometime in July. I checked and was a bit off concerning my appt. with my primary. Thought it was in August but it is actually the first week of September, which falls in line with with your recommendation of another round of testing two months after the first test at 6 weeks. Thx a bunch!

[bowers32]

Good luck Jupiter..... You have gotten some great advice on here and frankly some of it I should have followed myself coming out of the gate.

Vette is right... the labwork is the key... it will tell all.....

[zaggahamma]

If I may suggest, run some lab work at the 6 week stage, then 2 months after that again. 3 months is way too long to see where you are at with your program. Like I mentioned, the first 6 months are critical. This is where you will find out how your body responds to HRT, and this is when you make the necessary adjustments to your protocol. IMO, 3 sets of labs should be ran in the first 6 months ... 6 weeks, 2 months thereafter, then 3 months after that. Quarterly lab work from thereon should suffice in maintaining a good HRT protocol. Just my .02

nice new avy

glad no rugged bro

what do you call her

[Vettester]

nice new avy

glad no rugged bro

what do you call her

Seems to be the route everyone is going, so just trying to keep up.

I've got a headless young male avi just for you, I'll upload it next time

I call her "distracting".