Any Long Term Users?

**cjw2021** · 07-05-2010, 06:07 PM

I've heard some horror stories from guys on this forum and others of TRT stopping working beyond several years - such as estrogen levels elevating and total libido loss and joint aches. Does anyone have any experience being on this for over one year? I noticed penis shrinkage when I was on TRT along with some other uncomfortable side effects like knee joint aches. I am curious if this is working wonders for some of you or what? I'm 20 and have a test level of 275. I've tried test cypionate shots.

**Big** · 07-05-2010, 06:09 PM

I've never ever heard of penis shrinkage on trt, or of trt that is being properly administered stopping working. what specifically was your trt and how long were you on it when you discovered your penis was smaller?

**Big** · 07-05-2010, 06:29 PM

never mind, I just read this thread:

200mg Cyp Liver Pain!

and you are either a troll or a paranoid, delusional hypochondriac.
(or both)

**Vettester** · 07-05-2010, 07:53 PM

Penis shrinkage!!! LMFAO!!

**lovbyts** · 07-06-2010, 03:55 AM

It's probably due to Belly growth (ie FAT).
Maybe they put pins in his wrist and it's swollen so it make his winkie look smaller?

That thread was to funny. I remember when it first came up, I couldn't make it past the first 4 post and had to stop before I said something BAD...

**jlguitar** · 07-06-2010, 11:36 AM

It depends on how you run your trt program,not everybodys boichemistry is the same,some people prefer sustanon others enanthate still others cypionate .For me i liked sust the best i felt less supressed or my balls shrinking on sust,but i cant take sust anymore because i have irratable bowel syndrome(i.b.s)and it inflames my i.b.s.,so now i have been on cypionate for over 3years and feel great but i run my dosages in a half-pyramid meaning i start at 150mg a week and raise the dosage 10mg a week like this 150mg,160mg,170mg,180mg,190mg,200mg,when iget to 200mg i wait 14 days till my next shot and start at 150mg again.I also take .25mg arimadex 2 a week and it keeps my e2 in check.Now i run the same dosage of cypionate a week i get really bad erectile dysfunction (e.d.) i also feel like i get shrinkage if i run my cypionate the same every week.I guess some peoples biochemistry needs change or it will stagnate and not work properly,so give the half-pyramid a try or switch to sustanon.I hope this thread helps you,give it a try,trt is an artform as much as a science what works for one may not work for another.You just have to try different things to see what works for you.

**cjw2021** · 07-07-2010, 09:28 AM

jlguitar,

Thanks for your honest reply. These guys responding must have horse cocks if they do not notice any penis shrinkage on TRT. If I get to the last resort of going on TRT I will take your advice and pyramid it. My prostate started hurting and my knees felt stiff several days after the two times I injected (once with 200mg cypionate and the next with 100mg). Is the shrinkage you notice similar to say an SSRI or do you find that it isn't that noticeable with your pyramid technique? I know bodybuilders on steroids have much smaller packages than natural ones. My T level is 285 so I am definitely going to do something.

**Vettester** · 07-07-2010, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by cjw2021

jlguitar,

Thanks for your honest reply. These guys responding must have horse cocks if they do not notice any penis shrinkage on TRT. If I get to the last resort of going on TRT I will take your advice and pyramid it. My prostate started hurting and my knees felt stiff several days after the two times I injected (once with 200mg cypionate and the next with 100mg). Is the shrinkage you notice similar to say an SSRI or do you find that it isn't that noticeable with your pyramid technique? I know bodybuilders on steroids have much smaller packages than natural ones. My T level is 285 so I am definitely going to do something.

cjw, I assure you that you're not seeing any shrinkage of the penis due to TRT. The testicles do shrink, most definitely. This is due to a lack of endogenous testosterone production from the testes when TRT is introduced to the system, better known as testicular atrophy. No different than muscles that don't get worked. However, there is no correlation with testosterone and the penis. The two are independent from each other.

If you think about it, it makes sense with the testes. They cease to function properly because the body is telling them that it has a sufficient amount of that hormone. Thus no work and they start to shrink. Where does the penis fit into this equation (not literally)? If you see evidence that supports your theory please present it, but I've never seen it.

If this were happening, it would happen across the board ... And yes, my horse cock would be noticeably smaller too.

**TheCamel** · 07-07-2010, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Big

never mind, I just read this thread:

200mg Cyp Liver Pain!

and you are either a troll or a paranoid, delusional hypochondriac.
(or both)

**BillyBob210** · 07-07-2010, 05:01 PM

You will have some testicular atrophy but I think it is relative to your dosage. I am on a compounded cream now for 10 mths and have noticed minor shrinkage to the boys. No change in penis size, but it damn sure works better than it used to! Went to an endo a couple of weeks ago and he had what I refer to as a "string of pearls" which was a set of wooden testicles labeled 1 through 25 for comarison. Good reference tool. I may try and buy one for future tracking. I guess when you hit a certain number, you run some Hcg until your happy.

**Big** · 07-07-2010, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by cjw2021

I know bodybuilders on steroids have much smaller packages than natural ones.

**jlguitar** · 07-07-2010, 08:19 PM

I get no shrinkage pyramiding in fact testosterone makes it a little fuller,now i dont know why i get a small amount of shrinkage running it the same every week but i guess my body likes changing hormone levels.You could also try sustanon .I have been on trt over 3 years and doing great with the pyramid system.Trt is something you have stick with for a while to get it tuned-up so you could find what works for you.The pyramid system works great for me i have no complaints i feel great.

**cjw2021** · 07-07-2010, 08:59 PM

Good deal. I just put on 2-3 grams of 10% testosterone compounded cream and then worked out in the gym. While it wasn't quite as intense as my 200mg/ml cypionate experience of blood pounding in my head I thought it worked out just right and really don't see any bad side effects. I need renotropics right now since I'm just getting over pneumonia and have been having back pain. I could tell in the gym that I would no longer need to destroy my body for minimal gains if I stayed on this stuff. Thanks for the posts guys. I might try the cypionate pyramid thing later but it seems to me the smaller half life of cream is ideal for allowing the body to keep the hormones in balance compared to an 8 day half life of cypionate...less chance for unwanted elevation of other hormones and peaks and valleys. It seems like all the androgel users get burned with high estrogen eventually and have to switch to cypionate compared to the compounded cream guys. Plus I would much rather pay 40$ a month than 400$ a month for androgel...

**PPC** · 07-07-2010, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by jlguitar

It depends on how you run your trt program,not everybodys boichemistry is the same,some people prefer sustanon others enanthate still others cypionate.For me i liked sust the best i felt less supressed or my balls shrinking on sust,but i cant take sust anymore because i have irratable bowel syndrome(i.b.s)and it inflames my i.b.s.,so now i have been on cypionate for over 3years and feel great but i run my dosages in a half-pyramid meaning i start at 150mg a week and raise the dosage 10mg a week like this 150mg,160mg,170mg,180mg,190mg,200mg,when iget to 200mg i wait 14 days till my next shot and start at 150mg again.I also take .25mg arimadex 2 a week and it keeps my e2 in check.Now i run the same dosage of cypionate a week i get really bad erectile dysfunction (e.d.) i also feel like i get shrinkage if i run my cypionate the same every week.I guess some peoples biochemistry needs change or it will stagnate and not work properly,so give the half-pyramid a try or switch to sustanon.I hope this thread helps you,give it a try,trt is an artform as much as a science what works for one may not work for another.You just have to try different things to see what works for you.

The pyramid protocol you mentioned is very interesting. I have never seen it described before. So you do not use HCG ?

What happens when you return back to 150mg T cyp after being at 200 for a couple of weeks. Does that not result in a return of ED?

Where did you learn of this protocol? Was it through trial and error or on your own?

**zaggahamma** · 07-07-2010, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by PPC

The pyramid protocol you mentioned is very interesting. I have never seen it described before. So you do not use HCG ?

What happens when you return back to 150mg T cyp after being at 200 for a couple of weeks. Does that not result in a return of ED?

Where did you learn of this protocol of was it through trial and error on your own?

i was thinking the same thing...VERY interesting....agree with adjusting to fit your own personal TRT...this is a VERY interesting protocol and had the same thoughts

**forrest_and_trees** · 07-07-2010, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

cjw, I assure you that you're not seeing any shrinkage of the penis due to TRT. The testicles do shrink, most definitely. This is due to a lack of endogenous testosterone production from the testes when TRT is introduced to the system, better known as testicular atrophy. No different than muscles that don't get worked. However, there is no correlation with testosterone and the penis. The two are independent from each other.

I'm still learning, so go easy on me here guys.

This is just a thought however, is it possible that elevated E2 could contribute to shrinkage? Not just specific to this case, but in general?

**Vettester** · 07-08-2010, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees

I'm still learning, so go easy on me here guys.

This is just a thought however, is it possible that elevated E2 could contribute to shrinkage? Not just specific to this case, but in general?

I would have to say no. If it were happening we would be hearing from members left & right about how their tool is shrinking. I see posts everyday from guys that didn't run cycles right and how they've got all sorts of estro issues including gyno. I don't think I've ever seen one throw in another complaint about their dik shrinking up too.

However, as stated before, if someone has supporting evidence (medical journals, etc.) please present it.

**zaggahamma** · 07-08-2010, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

I would have to say no. If it were happening we would be hearing from members left & right about how their tool is shrinking. I see posts everyday from guys that didn't run cycles right and how they've got all sorts of estro issues including gyno. I don't think I've ever seen one throw in another complaint about their dik shrinking up too.

However, as stated before, if someone has supporting evidence (medical journals, etc.) please present it.

its a media hyped belief...but its based on the fact that genitalia do indeed shrink as we all know (our huevos) not the pollo

**Vettester** · 07-08-2010, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

its a media hyped belief...but its based on the fact that genitalia do indeed shrink as we all know (our huevos) not the pollo

Exactly, people presume since the pollo is parked in front of the huevos it must experience the same side effects. The penis to my understanding is an organ. So if this phenomena were happening we'd probably have to also worry about kidney shrinkage, liver shrinkage, etc. Safe to say I don't think that's happening either.

**forrest_and_trees** · 07-08-2010, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Exactly, people presume since the pollo is parked in front of the huevos it must experience the same side effects. The penis to my understanding is an organ. So if this phenomena were happening we'd probably have to also worry about kidney shrinkage, liver shrinkage, etc. Safe to say I don't think that's happening either.

I have come across this subject [shrinkage] on other sites and there are certainly plenty of people who feel there "pollo" is not quite what it used to be. And I'm not necessarily talking about people such as myself, who's overall size has increased over the years, therefore creating the appearance of shrinkage; but young lean people in their early 20's who have experienced it over a period of weeks and months. My point being, while the actual "organ" may not be shrinking, something is causing both flaccid and erect states of less than normal proportions rendering the same effect. Reasoning would point to a blood flow issue; or lack there of. [Similar to an under inflated balloon to analogize.] Along those lines, are there any ideas as to what could attribute to that?

**Big** · 07-08-2010, 01:08 PM

I'm sure lots of guys who don't know what they are doing could damage their HPTA and hormonal system until they have varying degrees of erectile dysfunction, but that doesn't mean the capable size of their member shrunk, but rather the capability of them to "inflate" it was diminished, to use your analogy.

**jlguitar** · 07-10-2010, 11:40 AM

I dont get e.d when i start over agian from 200mg to 150mg because of the change in hormone levels but i do feel tired that week,thats the only negative thing about it.As far as the shrinkage goes it only when i run the same dosage every week,and i am not running hcg .Ofcoarse the shrinkage can be from the bad e.d. i get when i run a straight dose of test every week.Im sure it wont just shrink but it does get physically smaller without pyramiding,alot less blood flow to the penis.Im glad there are forums like this were men can exchange ideas about mens health were all her to help each other get the most out of our trt.

**zaggahamma** · 07-10-2010, 03:01 PM

i'm actually gonna build a pyramid....pyramid for the huevos!!!!!!!

**forrest_and_trees** · 07-10-2010, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by jlguitar

...As far as the shrinkage goes it only when i run the same dosage every week,and i am not running hcg.Ofcoarse the shrinkage can be from the bad e.d. i get when i run a straight dose of test every week.Im sure it wont just shrink but it does get physically smaller without pyramiding,alot less blood flow to the penis.Im glad there are forums like this were men can exchange ideas about mens health were all her to help each other get the most out of our trt.

Are you using an AI when you run your weekly Test and I'm assuming it's Test Cyp? And yes.. it is a good thing to have a site like this . There are some real excellent sources of info here.