High Free Test - blood test results

**Uptick** · 10-20-2010, 04:47 PM

Hi,

I'm on TRT of 125mg Test Cyp per week.
My Total Test is: 778 ng/dL (ref range 250-1100)
My question pertains to my Free Test: 2.74% (ref range 1.5-2.2)
Is the fact that the Free Test % is above the range reason for concern?

Stats:
45 Years old
6 Foot
185 pounds
12% BF

Many Thanks!

**Vettester** · 10-20-2010, 04:53 PM

No, don't worry about it. Just about every doctor or clinic has their own take on what the ref. range should be. I've seen them go up to 4%.

2% to 3% is a great place to be, and your total serum count is also in a great place! Presume your E2 is pretty balanced too?

**zaggahamma** · 10-20-2010, 05:33 PM

welcome

agree with vette

can u share how long u been on, why u started, seen improvements, etc.?

thanks

**Uptick** · 10-20-2010, 08:04 PM

Thanks guys!
Yep, Vette....e2 is under control. Take 25 mg arimidex eod which brings e2 to 31. Should I increase dosage a little to try to bring e2 down to approximately 22 area?

Jpk.... Will give u more background on me tonight when I get home. Typing on iPhone at gym now.
Thanks again guys!!

**Vettester** · 10-20-2010, 08:17 PM

No need to lower E2, IMO you're spot-on!!!

**Uptick** · 10-20-2010, 09:59 PM

Thanks Vette!

Jpk...here's a little background:
Six months ago was feeling some of symptoms of low t so I went to mens health clinic to get my t tested.
Results came back at 310.
Clinic started me on test cyp. 125mg per week
Started reading this forum and others and learned a lot from u guys.
Clinic didn't test my E2and wouldn't prescribe AI (in addition to other incompetence).
Went to new doc who would prescribe AI.
At same time, began to lift weights and improved diet.
Have experienced positive changes in health (muscle mass, fat loss, libido etc..)
Downsides: concerned about hairloss, shutdown of natural t etc...

I have an additional (if u don't mind):
I have divided up the 125mg weekly dose of test cyp into 7 shots which I self administer (one each day) by using an insulin syringe with 1/2 inch needle injected into quad. What do you guys think of this idea?

**flatscat** · 10-21-2010, 07:34 AM

I think it is overkill - so at any one time how many little pockets of oil do you think you have in your quads? No need for it imho. It was designed so you wouldn't need daily injections.

your number look great bro

**Uptick** · 10-21-2010, 09:30 AM

Thanks Flats...I agree that my daily shots may be overkill and welcome any thoughts on my approach !
My current daily shot routine was recommended by a friend for the following reason:
Weekly shots have bigger peaks valleys and require 1.5 inch pin in glute (hard to self administer and more muscle damage because of size of needle)
The 1/2 inch pin in quad if done less frequently than daily would contain too much test that it might aromatize due to shallower 1/2 in depth. The daily shots allow for less test per injection.
Please let me know if my thoughts/process is faulty or illogical. I'm willing to change it.

Thanks guys!!

**zaggahamma** · 10-21-2010, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Uptick

Thanks Flats...I agree that my daily shots may be overkill and welcome any thoughts on my approach !
My current daily shot routine was recommended by a friend for the following reason:
Weekly shots have bigger peaks valleys and require 1.5 inch pin in glute (hard to self administer and more muscle damage because of size of needle)
The 1/2 inch pin in quad if done less frequently than daily would contain too much test that it might aromatize due to shallower 1/2 in depth. The daily shots allow for less test per injection.
Please let me know if my thoughts/process is faulty or illogical. I'm willing to change it.

Thanks guys!!

i have zero knowledge of pinning test sub Q so i'll sit back and watch as you update us....answer to your bringing your e2 down a little more? NO, again, imo (if your symtoms are fine as u say..31 is fine)

**Uptick** · 10-21-2010, 12:59 PM

Thanks jpk....
Just to clarify, I was told that pinning it with 1/2 inch needle in quad is still considered IM not Sub Q.
If I'm not mistaken, SubQ refers to pinning in fat by the belly button.
But since the 1/2 inch needle in quad is shallower, I was told that it's better to use smaller amounts to prevent aromtization etc; hence the reason for the daily injections (not weekly).
Looking forward to any feedback which you all might have.
Thanks again...

**flatscat** · 10-21-2010, 03:23 PM

no need to inject test c more than twice a week, and even that is questionable to a certain degree (half life of 8 (EIGHT) days.

**zaggahamma** · 10-21-2010, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Uptick

Thanks jpk....
Just to clarify, I was told that pinning it with 1/2 inch needle in quad is still considered IM not Sub Q.
If I'm not mistaken, SubQ refers to pinning in fat by the belly button.
But since the 1/2 inch needle in quad is shallower, I was told that it's better to use smaller amounts to prevent aromtization etc; hence the reason for the daily injections (not weekly).
Looking forward to any feedback which you all might have.
Thanks again...

duh...guess i read that in a hurry....weird pinning a long ester everyday..makes zero sense

**Uptick** · 10-21-2010, 11:08 PM

Sorry guys....I must not have made my reasons for pinning every day clear.
The theory behind it(as it was explained to me) is only because I want to avoid using a 1.5 inch pin in the glute which is difficult to self administer. Therefore, using a 1/2 inch needle in quad, since it's shallower, if done only weekly would contain too much test at one time and would therefore aromitze etc...
I'm not an expert, just trying to learn.
Can u suggest why pinning with a small insulin needle in quad daily would be harmful?

**zaggahamma** · 10-22-2010, 03:05 AM

this clinic wont even test e2 but want to have u pin every day with test that peaks around day 3 or 4.....125mg weekly generally doesnt aromotize in a lot of patients...imo, e2 needs to be monitored in any trt regimine

**JuiceBox12** · 10-22-2010, 05:28 AM

How the he'll are you pinning with an insulin needle???

**zaggahamma** · 10-22-2010, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by JuiceBox12

How the he'll are you pinning with an insulin needle???

not sure it IS and insulin needle ..he's saying its a 1/2 inch pin but still going IM...the 1/2 inch needle is to avoid muscle damage they r telling him..

**flatscat** · 10-22-2010, 07:38 AM

I really can't say it is harmful, but that's still a lot of holes in your quads (but more injections = more chances for abscess). Scar tissue does not just come from an inch and a half needle - if you are pinning into a muscle it can come from anything that penetrates it - even an insulin needle. 180 injections in each quad per year vs 26 if you go weekly. Your choice though.

Why is pinning your glute difficult? The other thing is by the time you get into your quad with a half incher - you probably are only a quarter inch or less into the muscle - if your quads are decent.

Let us know how it goes.

I have heard of some guys injecting T sub-Q - and there is some research on it, but the practice is not widespread.

**Uptick** · 10-22-2010, 09:57 AM

Thanks for your insights guys....

So, can we assume the following?:

1) Pinning Test C twice a week provides a more stable serum level (with less peaks and valleys) then pinning once a week based upon half life.

2) A 1/2 inch needle (28 guage) does less muscle damage then a 1.5 inch needle with a smaller guage.

3) More pins per year does more muscle damage with greater risk for abcess, scar tissue etc then less pins per year.

4)Depositing too much oil/test at one time at a shallow depth can cause problems with aromitization etc..so it's preferable to minimize the amount deposited at any given time.

So....based upon those assumptions, perhaps the optimal solution is to try:

Pinning quad twice a week with 1/2 inch needle (28 guage) and hope that the amount of oil/test deposited at one time at shallow depth in quad won't cause a problem with aromitization etc???

What do you guys think of that idea?

Thanks!

**Vettester** · 10-22-2010, 10:22 AM

The quads need to go 1" deep, and the glutes go 1-1/2" deep, based on IM injections. I use 25g and have no problems what so ever. I pin once per week, there are no issues. Aspirate , inject, don't worry.

**Uptick** · 10-22-2010, 10:33 AM

OK...Thanks!

**zaggahamma** · 10-22-2010, 11:51 AM

first i've heard of the different depth of pinning changes the aromatization...interesting...

of course the 28 guage is gonna be better on you than 23 and below..

yes..twice a week MAX...

let us know how long it takes to get the cyp thru that 28 guage pin

**Uptick** · 10-22-2010, 01:31 PM

sure JPK...the test cyp seems to flow slowly through 28g pin. I don't try to rush it. I'd say it takes me approx 10 seconds to get the .9 cc through daily (although could probably force it through more quickly if I tried.)

**zaggahamma** · 10-22-2010, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Uptick

sure JPK...the test cyp seems to flow slowly through 28g pin. I don't try to rush it. I'd say it takes me approx 10 seconds to get the .9 cc through daily (although could probably force it through more quickly if I tried.)

thats not bad at all bro....seems as if when i tried 25 guage it seemed forever