Endo says hcg is useless when used with test?

**pyramid** · 12-09-2010, 07:28 PM

Saw my endo today and he claims the use of hcg is useless while using test, is there any truth to this? He also says if I use hcg I should use it by itself and I should use 2500iu 3x aweek!! I am currently on 100mg test a week, and I am doing 500iu 2x a week. Any thoughts on this bizzare endo's theory.

**flatscat** · 12-10-2010, 06:30 AM

ask him why your boys look like grapefruit now if it doesn't work

**zaggahamma** · 12-10-2010, 06:34 AM

how bizarre how bizarre

**EZ E** · 12-10-2010, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by pyramid

Saw my endo today and he claims the use of hcg is useless while using test, is there any truth to this? He also says if I use hcg I should use it by itself and I should use 2500iu 3x aweek!! I am currently on 100mg test a week, and I am doing 500iu 2x a week. Any thoughts on this bizzare endo's theory.

Have your endo read this study (http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595). You can also download it as a pdf. Be sure to thank him for keeping up with the latest research, I guess he is only 5 years behind.

**Vettester** · 12-10-2010, 10:30 PM

Call the guy out, he is an idiot!!! HCG will signal the testes to produce natural testosterone , permitting the condition is secondary. Exogenous testosterone will have no affect on how HCG behaves, they are completely independent from each other. 2,500iu x 3/wk??? Don't do it. Looks as if he didn't pay too much attention in school.

**The Toad** · 12-11-2010, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Call the guy out, he is an idiot!!! HCG will signal the testes to produce natural testosterone, permitting the condition is secondary. Exogenous testosterone will have no affect on how HCG behaves, they are completely independent from each other. 2,500iu x 3/wk??? Don't do it. Looks as if he didn't pay too much attention in school.

What is "secondary" and how do find out if you are. I am getting blood work done in the next couple of weeks. I am definitely experiencing the shrinkage.

**sirupate** · 12-13-2010, 10:49 AM

Secondary hypogonadism indicates that your pituitary gland isn't signaling your testes to produce testoterone. Primary hypogonadism means that your testes are no longer capable of producing adequate testosterone even if they are being signaled properly by the pituitary.

sirp

**The Toad** · 12-13-2010, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by sirupate

Secondary hypogonadism indicates that your pituitary gland isn't signaling your testes to produce testoterone. Primary hypogonadism means that your testes are no longer capable of producing adequate testosterone even if they are being signaled properly by the pituitary.

sirp

Thanks

**Vettester** · 12-13-2010, 09:09 PM

^^ Sirp's reply hits it on the head!! A good way to know would have been to run your LH/FSH labs prior to starting TRT. That should have been the first thing the doctor did before taking any steps. Good chance you are secondary, especially if you are experiencing the shrinkage issues at this stage of it.

**The Toad** · 12-13-2010, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

^^ Sirp's reply hits it on the head!! A good way to know would have been to run your LH/FSH labs prior to starting TRT. That should have been the first thing the doctor did before taking any steps. Good chance you are secondary, especially if you are experiencing the shrinkage issues at this stage of it.

I know that wasn't part of the test prior to TRT but I am going to check back on past yearly blood tests and see if it may have been checked. If not, would I know if those levels are low on this upcoming test.

**JimInAK** · 12-13-2010, 11:20 PM

If I were paying for this endo's advise, I'd be finding a new endo.

If you were paying anything, it was too much... you should be charging him/her for providing basic, minimal education.

If you care about your health don't walk, run away from this board certified IDIOT.

Perhaps you should make friends with a Homeland security child groper... he'd know more about the appropriate size and functionality of male testicles than your college educated endo does. And his service is free !!!

**Far from massive** · 12-14-2010, 07:27 PM

Am I reading that right!

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595

Not the outcome.. I use HCG and believe in it, I am talking about using fine needle aspiration to guage ITT sperm production...I hope the particpants were well paid LOL.

**Vettester** · 12-14-2010, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by The Toad

I know that wasn't part of the test prior to TRT but I am going to check back on past yearly blood tests and see if it may have been checked. If not, would I know if those levels are low on this upcoming test.

The problem is that TRT will suppress your LH levels further, so any tests from hereon should come up in the low range. Again, that's why baseline labs are important.

**Vettester** · 12-14-2010, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by JimInAK

If I were paying for this endo's advise, I'd be finding a new endo.

If you were paying anything, it was too much... you should be charging him/her for providing basic, minimal education.

If you care about your health don't walk, run away from this board certified IDIOT.

Perhaps you should make friends with a Homeland security child groper... he'd know more about the appropriate size and functionality of male testicles than your college educated endo does. And his service is free !!!

LMFAO!!! I about fell over when I saw this! Very true!!! I'm going to ask my TSA agent give me a prostate exam next time I fly!

**stevey_6t9** · 12-14-2010, 10:22 PM

depends on your situation...im assuming your on trt?

if youve been on trt for a few years your testes havent recieved that LH/FSH signal, and are somewhat desensitized so you may need a higher hcg dose like your endo says.

other then that, ask him where he got his info from.

**The Toad** · 12-15-2010, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

The problem is that TRT will suppress your LH levels further, so any tests from hereon should come up in the low range. Again, that's why baseline labs are important.

Thanks Vetteman, I wish I had known about this site when I first started HRT. My family doctor doesn't know sh** about this. I have learned more here and have passed a lot of it on to him.... which is scary. Makes you wonder if he knows as little about other things (quite the confidence builder)

**Vettester** · 12-15-2010, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Toad

Thanks Vetteman, I wish I had known about this site when I first started HRT. My family doctor doesn't know sh** about this. I have learned more here and have passed a lot of it on to him.... which is scary. Makes you wonder if he knows as little about other things (quite the confidence builder)

My primary is the same way, which is why I ended up seeking other medical experts. That's also when I figured out that I needed to get educated on this stuff if I really want it to work good for me. I'm actually grateful for that, because I discovered just how fascinating this stuff is. The more I learn, the more I want to learn. BTW, if you ask your doc about anti-D's or anxiety drugs, he will probably be able to give you a 5 star presentation for an entire morning!