TRT question

**stevo123** · 01-29-2011, 08:03 PM

Age: 22

So i have been on androgel 1% 5g for over a month now applying everyday, I have had low T for a long time and finally started trying to get it fixed, I got the results back from a blood test and these were the results

Free test: 24.5 L normal: 35-155 pg/mL

Total test: 146 L Normal: 250-1100 ng/dL

LH: 0.2 L Normal: 2.0-9.0 mIU/mL

FSH: < .1 L Normal: 0.7-11.1 mIU/mL

the levels appear to have dropped, before my LH and FSH were borderline low and as you can tell they are virtually zippo!! I am going in for an appointment this next week could someone give me some advice on what to ask the doctor as far as TRT goes, like switching to injections and at what mg/week should i push for?

**SlimmerMe** · 01-29-2011, 09:34 PM

glad to see you here....the guys will be around to chime in so hold tight!

**stevey_6t9** · 01-30-2011, 12:48 AM

just ask for injections, sometimes the gels wont absorb properly... around 100-200mg weekly is most common.

**stack_it** · 01-30-2011, 01:07 AM

Tell him you want injections. They will probably want to start you out on 200mg every two weeks and then have you do bloodwork to see how your levels have changed. From there they will tweak it. I would try to shoot for weekly injects tho as for most people they feel better and more stable with weekly over biweekly.

**funkymonk** · 01-30-2011, 01:10 AM

Question, is there any reason why a doc would be opposed to injections if they give you the ok for the gel?

**Shol'va** · 01-30-2011, 02:46 AM

More and more Doctors are flat out refusing to prescribe shots these days. I believe they are being intimidated by the dea and its a shame when the dea tells the docs how to treat their patients. But fear of losing your license to practice is a mighty convincing tool. So there you have it. this is also why most family docs refer you to the endo's as they dont want the dea breathing down their neck. However, if you see a doc for treatment and he is willing to give you the gel, but not the shots, just go home and search for endo's in your neck of the woods and start calling them up and ask their receptionist or nurse if the doc prescibes testosterone shots for men with low t and if she says yes, make an appoinment. Problem solved.
PS: When you find one who prescribes shots, more than likely they will show you how to self inject. You may have to go in for a couple of times till you get it down. Just be sure to tell them you prefer to do it at home without the hassle of coming in to the office every week. There are a lot of guys who squirm at the thought of needles so some docs dont offer that route so you have to ask.

**stevo123** · 01-30-2011, 08:15 AM

oh ok great yeah that is what i was thinking thank you for all of the replies, he said injections were one of the options but he wanted to just try to gel for a month to see if it would fix the problem, i knew it really wouldn't do much so i more did it as a favor to answer his curiosity than mine, so now that i have the blood work back i have some evidence that i need to switch to injections, and since i will be on the road so much this year self injections would be a necessity, so i should ask him if we could start at 200mg preferably every week to keep the blood levels stable and then report back with the results

**stevo123** · 01-30-2011, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

More and more Doctors are flat out refusing to prescribe shots these days. I believe they are being intimidated by the dea and its a shame when the dea tells the docs how to treat their patients. But fear of losing your license to practice is a mighty convincing tool. So there you have it. this is also why most family docs refer you to the endo's as they dont want the dea breathing down their neck. However, if you see a doc for treatment and he is willing to give you the gel, but not the shots, just go home and search for endo's in your neck of the woods and start calling them up and ask their receptionist or nurse if the doc prescibes testosterone shots for men with low t and if she says yes, make an appoinment. Problem solved.
PS: When you find one who prescribes shots, more than likely they will show you how to self inject. You may have to go in for a couple of times till you get it down. Just be sure to tell them you prefer to do it at home without the hassle of coming in to the office every week. There are a lot of guys who squirm at the thought of needles so some docs dont offer that route so you have to ask.

yeah i don't really get why a lot of people just think that injections are far worse and classify that method as like using drugs or something, both the gel and the test bottle would be considered a class III drug it shouldn't really matter how the patient administers it

**stevo123** · 01-30-2011, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by stack_it

Tell him you want injections. They will probably want to start you out on 200mg every two weeks and then have you do bloodwork to see how your levels have changed. From there they will tweak it. I would try to shoot for weekly injects tho as for most people they feel better and more stable with weekly over biweekly.

if i talk him into self injections should i then shoot 100mg/week or 200mg/week to keep the levels more stable

**Shol'va** · 01-30-2011, 01:59 PM

More than likely, your doc will start you off on the lower dose for a couple of months till retest of the bloodwork to see where you stand, then he will adjust accordingly. Just kind of ask him if you want, if 150-200 a week is a good starting dose. He will probably say that its too high so just go with whatever he suggests. It all depends on the endo. Some may start you off at 50 mg a week others may put it anywhere up to 200 mg per week and yet others may put you on 125mg every 2 weeks. So that is totally at the discretion of the endo. Test-E and Test-C both are long acting esters with Test-e having one less carbon atom, making it last ever so slightly longer in the system, so either one will be great for you. Also weekly doseing is the preferred method to keep your levels more stable. And when you go in for follow up testing, get your bloodwork drawn on the day you give yourself a shot, before you get your shot that day. So if you take shots every 7 days or 14 days then get the bloodword done before you do your shot for that day.They will probably inform you of this when its time for retesting of the blood. You will have a good feeling that all your stuff is true pharmaceutical grade. Lucky you.

**stevo123** · 01-30-2011, 05:04 PM

great thanks alot for the reply ill post back in a day or so after the appointment

**Shol'va** · 02-01-2011, 10:54 AM

More things to persuade your doc to switch you from androgel to shots...
When applying the gel you have to wait up to 30 minutes for it to dry before getting dressed
It has the consistency of your own jism so its like rubbing your own jism on you and walking around with dried jism on you all day.
You have to wait 6 hours before you can shower again so heavy yard work is out of the question.
Heres the kicker...The transferrance factor. If you are intimate with your wife it can rub off on her giving her facial hair and a deeper voice.
Not only that but if you are around young children you can cause them to go into premature puberty.
Great huh????
Whereas if you take a weekly shot it goes diretly into you with no fears of any transferrace isuues at all and a weekly shot is truly preferred over daily smearing on of this crap.........

**stevo123** · 02-03-2011, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

More things to persuade your doc to switch you from androgel to shots...
When applying the gel you have to wait up to 30 minutes for it to dry before getting dressed
It has the consistency of your own jism so its like rubbing your own jism on you and walking around with dried jism on you all day.
You have to wait 6 hours before you can shower again so heavy yard work is out of the question.
Heres the kicker...The transferrance factor. If you are intimate with your wife it can rub off on her giving her facial hair and a deeper voice.
Not only that but if you are around young children you can cause them to go into premature puberty.
Great huh????
Whereas if you take a weekly shot it goes diretly into you with no fears of any transferrace isuues at all and a weekly shot is truly preferred over daily smearing on of this crap.........

so i went in to the doc and he was dumbfounded that my bloodwork came back worse than it was before i even started androgel, i tried to persuade him into using injections, he said that almost every endo uses creams or gels now blah blah and wouldnt go for it, he is sending me to an endocrinologist to get an MRI of my pituitary because he thinks there may be something else going on, pretty disappointed with how the appointment went, he just told me to double up on the gel packets until i can get into the endo..

**flatscat** · 02-03-2011, 03:42 PM

MRI = good idea just to be safe.

Your Doc = idiot

this story had been told a thousand times - you got just enough t from the gel to shut you down completely. Find a new DOC!

Doubling up gel = you will feel better, but you should go for the injections, start at 100/week and work your way up if you need to.

Good luck!

**stevo123** · 02-03-2011, 03:46 PM

yeah very curious what could be going on with the pituitary.. yeah i hope i can talk with the endo and see if i can get a second opinion or try to persuade them to switch to weekly injections, i dont like slathering two packets of gel all over my upper body every day, hopefully the endo is open to some discussion or able to change his opinion if he thinks otherwise, it is my body i should be able to choose which method i want to get the test into it...

**Shol'va** · 02-03-2011, 04:06 PM

Yeah take that list i have above on the negative aspects of gel. Tell him you have young children and a wife, whether you do or not and that you dont want to cause any potential harm to them from transferring this crap to them. Hey it cant hurt to try.
I am really dreading the day I have to go there. I'm afraid I'll go postal if they try to put me on testim or androgel . I dont know if I'm breaking the rules here but monthly androgel cost without insurance at a pharmacy for 10 gram daily use is over six hundred dollars verses a 5 ml bottle of test, 200 mg per ml at 28 bucks. Since these are everyday legal legit pharmacy prices I'm assuming I'm not breaking rules but if I am I will edit this post.

**stevo123** · 02-03-2011, 04:21 PM

good to know thanks, ill try to write up a list of reasons why it would be better to switch to injections and all i can hope is that hes got an open mind and is willing to give that a go

**Corpsman** · 02-04-2011, 12:55 AM

Same story for me when I was 25. I told them the gel made my skin come off in my hand as I was applying it. That and I had an obvious reaction to the patch. The weird thing is, I am looking at your avatar and you look quite healthy. I was a wrestler and was pretty muscular too. I had four kids before I found out I had low T. They did an MRI of my pituitary and didn't find anything wrong. They never could tell me what caused my low T.

**Mr Bill** · 02-04-2011, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by stevo123

Age: 22

So i have been on androgel 1% 5g for over a month now applying everyday, I have had low T for a long time and finally started trying to get it fixed, I got the results back from a blood test and these were the results

Free test: 24.5 L normal: 35-155 pg/mL

Total test: 146 L Normal: 250-1100 ng/dL

LH: 0.2 L Normal: 2.0-9.0 mIU/mL

FSH: < .1 L Normal: 0.7-11.1 mIU/mL

the levels appear to have dropped, before my LH and FSH were borderline low and as you can tell they are virtually zippo!! I am going in for an appointment this next week could someone give me some advice on what to ask the doctor as far as TRT goes, like switching to injections and at what mg/week should i push for?

I started Androgel with T in the 200's and dropped into the 100's in a couple of weeks on 5g. Doc doubled my dose to 10g and now my T is 680. The Doc just upped my synthroid for my hypothyroid because libido came back but I still don't feel right. More blood work in 6 weeks.

**stevo123** · 02-05-2011, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Corpsman

Same story for me when I was 25. I told them the gel made my skin come off in my hand as I was applying it. That and I had an obvious reaction to the patch. The weird thing is, I am looking at your avatar and you look quite healthy. I was a wrestler and was pretty muscular too. I had four kids before I found out I had low T. They did an MRI of my pituitary and didn't find anything wrong. They never could tell me what caused my low T.

thanks, i have always had a good physique since i can remember and haven't had much of an issue putting on weight, when on cycle and my test is actually more than a 9 year old boy i can put on a lot of muscle, but found even after pct i lose most all of it because i cant maintain my test levels to support the weight put on even with a good diet and strict workout routine.

Im a little worried about the MRI especially because of the possibility of a pituitary tumor, could throw a wrench in the pro baseball path if not fixed right away. Good thing for you they never found anything, kind of in limbo right now for getting into the endo and an MRI but ill be sure to post back after the visit with hopefully good news.

**stevo123** · 02-05-2011, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I started Androgel with T in the 200's and dropped into the 100's in a couple of weeks on 5g. Doc doubled my dose to 10g and now my T is 680. The Doc just upped my synthroid for my hypothyroid because libido came back but I still don't feel right. More blood work in 6 weeks.

wow thats quite a dramatic increase just by using two packs, hopefully i can see some of the same results because my libido has been non existent from birth and makes a first year of marriage pretty frustrating with malfunctioning hardware (sigh...) Cialis and other med's don't even fix anything so hopefully the endo can find the culprit of the hidden testosterone killer soon

**stevo123** · 02-26-2011, 09:44 PM

So I thought I'd give a little update, i talked the endo into putting me on self injections (student health services will be giving injections while still in college ball for obvious reasons) the script is for 200mg/every 2 weeks ( i know its not "perfect" but its a start and im sure i will start seeing some positive results soon) once im out of college and can manage my own injection protocol ill probably go up to 125mg/week.

the real question is, are their guys who save up and burst and double up or triple up their doses the following 2 months? kind of new to the whole TRT scene but I know that i can use it for cycling if done right, would that mean that I have to go cold turkey on the TRT for about a month or two and save up the test then hit it hard the next 2 months?
Im just trying to figure out how to cycle without having to get UGL stuff sent in from other countries, I'm sure down the road i will run heavier cycles and get different types of gear but as for the test does anyone know a good idea for using their TRT to cycle maybe 2-3 times a year or is this just an awful idea?

**funkymonk** · 02-26-2011, 09:50 PM

Most docs are very careful about how much test they give out. They'll definitely know if you're using extra.

**stevo123** · 02-26-2011, 09:54 PM

but if i were to just stop taking the injections and save up and just act like i am still on the injection protocol and call in when my script "would" be empty and need a refill he wouldn't really have a way of knowing if im taking more than prescribed

**optionsdude** · 02-27-2011, 02:23 AM

The doc might be wondering whats wrong when your bloodwork comes back the same if you're stockpiling the injections. My first round of injectable therapy was 210 mg/ml of test cyp. and 200 mg/ml of deca every week. I was also taking anastrozole for first 2 days after injection. I tried a nandrotest cream on my first round and was not impressed. Is your doc prescribing an aromatase inhibitor? . Upping your dose on your own with no AI might cause gyno. Why don't you try out what the doc prescribes first and see how it goes. I noticed a huge difference in injections over the topicals.

**JohnnyVegas** · 02-27-2011, 03:11 AM

If you don't do the protocol, and save it up for a "burst" instead, then you aren't on TRT or really concerned with your well being...you are just cheating the system to get steroids .

**stevo123** · 02-27-2011, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by optionsdude

The doc might be wondering whats wrong when your bloodwork comes back the same if you're stockpiling the injections. My first round of injectable therapy was 210 mg/ml of test cyp. and 200 mg/ml of deca every week. I was also taking anastrozole for first 2 days after injection. I tried a nandrotest cream on my first round and was not impressed. Is your doc prescribing an aromatase inhibitor? . Upping your dose on your own with no AI might cause gyno. Why don't you try out what the doc prescribes first and see how it goes. I noticed a huge difference in injections over the topicals.

no he never prescribed any AI's even though i told him i developed some gyno from the gel, what a joke, I'm sure i will like the injections alot better, guess i was just looking for an easier way to run cycles but feeling like crap for 3 months and going back and forth doesnt sound like much fun, adding some deca or tren down the line might be a better route

**stevo123** · 02-27-2011, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

If you don't do the protocol, and save it up for a "burst" instead, then you aren't on TRT or really concerned with your well being...you are just cheating the system to get steroids.

true, i guess at this point im more concerned with just getting back to normal and seeing where that gets me, have you ever saved up for a burst or just stayed on your protocol and added in more substances instead

**subnet** · 02-27-2011, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by stevo123

true, i guess at this point im more concerned with just getting back to normal and seeing where that gets me, have you ever saved up for a burst or just stayed on your protocol and added in more substances instead

stevo - this really is the important part. Do you really want to get your body to a stable and good level? If so, then don't try to screw 'the system' by underdosing or completely not using the Test to hoard/save until you can do a cycle. You WILL feel like complete shit if you totally go off, your body won't know what the hell is going on. Myself and many others here will really emphasize just getting your body to where it should be, then when you get to that optimum level, you can decide to cycle in more meds or increase the dosage. Most of us here in this sub-forum are a lot older and have felt like crap for many, many years, so just feeling 'normal' is a primary goal of ours.

Now, that being said, it's great that you'll be 'allowed' (friggen doctors) to go to injections! As flats said, 100mg/week is a good place to start. Adjust from there depending on what your blood work shows, not 'just because'. Some guys need less, most need more. The use of an AI could be necessary, especially at higher Test dosages - again, it's dependent on your bloodwork on how much and how often to take the AI.

Regarding your question on if you can save up to allow for higher dosing, it depends on how your prescription is written and just how strict your Dr. is. Mine (for most of my TRT) was very conservative - he would dose at 120mg/week and would write the prescription out as 120mg/week for 12 doses. The one thing that worked in my favour, was that the bottles of Test E came in 5ml (at 200mg/ml) so there was no exact way to get the weekly/monthly amount that would fit into the bottle. The pharmacy had to give me more than what was prescribed as they obviously wouldn't remove any from the bottle before dispensing. It wasn't much, but it was a way to get more and hoard it up for a rainy day!

**BeastintheSheets** · 02-27-2011, 12:42 PM

Gel will just create more estrogen stress due to the presence of skin's aromatase enzyme. Not only that, your levels will be highly unstable. I felt like a PMSing woman on it...and it was burning my hair follicles off from the higher DHT conversion due to the short half life faster than I could count. Eventually it just stopped working too, probably due to the high estrogen conversion.