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Thread: hCG and Pregnenolone; What you should know.

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    hCG and Pregnenolone; What you should know.

    When a man introduces Testosterone exogenously it significantly changes how the Hypothalamus(H), Pituitary(P) and Testicle(T) glands react to each other in keeping men's androgenic hormones in balance. Many of our hormones act in a cascading event and the axis between the these three glands are no different.

    When T levels are low in a normal healthy man the Hypothalamus releases a "releasing" hormone (LHRH) that tells the Pituitary to release another hormone known as Luteinizing Hormone (LH). In turn, LH reaches the receptors on the Leydig cells within the testicles telling them to do their thing among which is the production of Pregnenolone from Cholesterol, Sperm and Testosterone among other things needed downstream in all hormonal pathways.

    Exogenous Testosterone halts the HPT Axis (HPTA) and as such the testicles are no longer receiving LH. This is know by most of us as simply "shutdown" or "HPTA suppression."

    In order for men on a TRT protocol where they are in a state of shutdown/suppression to make up for the lost production of LH they will need add hCG to their protocol which is a bioidentical form of LH (LH Analog).

    hCG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_c...c_gonadotropin) is a water based peptide hormone that can only be injected to replace the lost LH hormone that a TRT protocol shuts down. There are "so called" oral forms of hCG that some men are placed on, or purchased from other sources, but from all that I read it's not possible to injest hCG and get it past the liver to make its efficacy plausible. Recently, oral micronized verions of hCG are available by prescription and have shown to be a successful alternative to injections for some men...talk to your Doctor.

    So what happens when a man testicles don't function anymore do to the lack of LH?

    1. The Biggie: Testicular Atrophy. Men will see their testes get smaller over time and hurt constantly along the way. The duration for this event seems to be different in men where younger guys can seem to go longer where mid to older guys see the event happens on a more accelerated scale. Some think it happens to do with the amount of receptors on the Leydig cells...but who really knows.
    2. Sperm production is pretty much halted.
    3. Men's scrotum's will get really tight and pull up against the body causing pain and end up looking like a 5 year old.
    4. The testes are the single largest producer of the hormone Pregnenolone; the mother of all hormones (http://www.antiaging-systems.com/165...one-metabolite) We need Pregnenolone for so many reasons (read the link) and while it can be supplemented it's hit or miss on how effective supplementation can be for some men.

    Why we need hCG:
    1. To produce Pregnenolone; hCG activates the p450 side chain cleavage (p450scc) enzyme which converts cholesterol to Pregnenolone!!! (Read the link above, please.)
    2. To produce the precursors for DHEA, Estrogen, Cortisol, Testosterone and DHT...back filling the pathways (See #1 above)
    3. For proper and normal brain function
    4. For proper functioning of the testicles
    5. If men ever want to restart
    6. If men ever want to have children
    7. If men don't want balls that end up in a small mass of useless Collagen
    8. The list goes on...

    In short, hCG keeps the testicles functioning in a normal state and supports all three androgen pathways. It prevents pregnenolone deficiency and supporting all our other CHOL pathways and hormones as well.

    As we've all seen first hand in this community; when a man on a TRT protocol is not on hCG they complain of shrinking testicle and the accompanying pain that goes with it.

    But when they start on hCG (because of all the things listed above and more) they all state how much better they feel and the pain associated with their testicular atrophy subsiding and that their testicles feel much better as well.

    Does a man need hCG on a TRT protocol? Nope. But for all the reasons above a man should be made aware of why hCG and Pregnenolone are important to their health and well being on a life long journey of TRT.

    The efficacy for hCG for both Primary and Secondary Hypogonadism has been documented. For those whose Doctor refuses to prescribe HCG as part of your TRT protocol print this study abstract and force them to read it:

    Tung-Chin Hsieh, Alexander W. Pastuszak, Kathleen Hwang and Larry I. Lipshultz*,†

    From the Division of Urology, University of California-San Diego (TCH), San Diego, California, Scott Department of Urology, Baylor College of Medicine (AWP, LIL), Houston, Texas, and Department of Urology (KH), Brown University School of Medicine, Providence, Rhode Island

    Purpose: Testosterone replacement therapy results in decreased serum gonadotropins and intratesticular testosterone , and impairs spermatogenesis, leading to azoospermia in 40% of patients. However, intratesticular testosterone can be maintained during testosterone replacement therapy with co-administration of low dose human chorionic gonadotropin , which may support continued spermatogenesis in patients on testosterone replacement therapy.

    Materials and Methods: We retrospectively reviewed the records of hypogonadal men treated with testosterone replacement therapy and concomitant low dose human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG ). Testosterone replacement consisted of daily topical gel or weekly intramuscular injection with intramuscular human chorionic gonadotro- pin (500 IU) every other day. Serum and free testosterone, estradiol, semen parameters and pregnancy rates were evaluated before and during therapy.

    Results: A total of 26 men with a mean age of 35.9 years were included in the study. Mean followup was 6.2 months. Of the men 19 were treated with injectable testosterone and 7 were treated with transdermal gel. Mean serum hormone levels before vs during treatment were testosterone 207.2 vs 1,055.5 ng/dl (p <0.0001), free testosterone 8.1 vs 20.4 pg/ml (p = 0.02) and estradiol 2.2 vs 3.7 pg/ml (p = 0.11). Pretreatment semen parameters were volume 2.9 ml, density 35.2 million per ml, motility 49.0% and forward progression 2.3. No differences in semen parameters were observed during greater than 1 year of followup. No impact on semen parameters was observed as a function of testosterone formulation. No patient became azoospermic during concomitant testosterone replacement and human chorionic gonadotropin therapy. Nine of 26 men contributed to pregnancy with the partner during followup.

    Conclusions: Low dose human chorionic gonadotropin appears to maintain semen parameters in hypogonadal men on testosterone replacement therapy. Concurrent testosterone replacement and human chorionic gonadotropin use may preserve fertility in hypogonadal males who desire fertility preservation while on testosterone replacement therapy.


    Reconstituting 5,000IU’s of hCG
    Use a larger bore (i.e., 18g) needle, and transfer your bacteriostatic water into the vial with the freeze dried hCG powder. You want to inject until you have added a total of 2ml's of solution. Keep the powder and vial upright because you can blow the hCG out of it when you pull the needle out of the vial. Otherwise be sure to draw air out after you push the water in to release pressure each time. Also, make sure to hold the plunger of the syringe when you first penetrate the vial as there is a vacuum inside the vial and it will want to pull the plunger down at an accelerated rate and you don’t want that to happen.

    Reconstituting 10,000IU’s of hCG
    Use a larger bore (i.e., 18g) needle, and transfer your bacteriostatic water into the vial with the freeze dried hCG powder. You want to inject until you have added a total of 4ml's of solution. Keep the powder and vial upright because you can blow the hCG out of it when you pull the needle out of the vial. Otherwise be sure to draw air out after you push the water in to release pressure each time. Also, make sure to hold the plunger of the syringe when you first penetrate the vial as there is a vacuum inside the vial and it will want to pull the plunger down at an accelerated rate and you don’t want that to happen.

    When completed, gently swirl the vial to mix. Keep in the refrigerator once reconstituted. It will keep its potency for 60 to 90 days.

    When using an insulin syringe, each unit (line) on the scale of the syringe equals 25IU's of hCG. 250IU’s of hCG is then 10 units on the side of the insulin syringe.

    Note: Due primarily to the shelf life of reconstituted hCG it’s best advised to use the smaller 5,000IU vials as opposed to the 10,000IU which sits longer.

    hCG Injection Protocols
    Let’s start by saying that there are no hard and fast rules for hCG injection protocols. There are a number of well known Physicians who have recommendations and prescribe based on their experience with patient’s subjective responses to treatment and subsequent serum levels. There are other variables as well that need to be taking into consideration when contemplating hCG injection protocols like whether or not the man is Primary or Secondary Hypogonadal can determine hCG injection protocols.

    That being said, there are a number of hCG injection protocols that appear more commonly and are based on Testosterone injection frequency and or the use of a cream or gel.

    Note: It's not advisable to inject more then 500iu's of hCG in any 24 hour period as it can increase intratesticular E2 which an AI is largely ineffective in controlling. Additionally, there is a theory that large amounts of hCG may desensitize the receptors on the lydeg cells.

    Once a Week Testosterone Injection Protocols
    If a man injects Testosterone on a once a week basis the more common protocol is to use 250IU of hCG two days before and one day before their next testosterone injection. The theory here is that Testosterone serum levels are at near half life and the injection of hCG on these days increase natural production creating a bridge until the next testosterone injection.

    Twice a Week Testosterone Injections
    If a man injects twice a week similar to an every 3.5 day schedule the more common protocol are smaller doses more frequently. It’s not uncommon to see men inject 250IU of hCG on an EOD basis or on a Monday-Wednesday-Friday protocol.

    Cream or Gel Daily Use
    If a man uses a Cream and/or Gel some of the top Testosterone Repla***ent Physicians, like Dr. John Crisler, recommend patients use 100iu of hCG every day.

    hCG Injections
    Injecting hCG prevents a drug induced Pregnenolone deficiency and helps support the other androgen pathways as well. When men are on a TRT protocol without hCG and then add in hCG many report a significant improvement in mood that many attribute to restored Pregnenolone levels.

    When injecting hCG, you inject into the fat under the skin just the same as diabetics inject insulin. The product literature is all about use a fertility drug for women with large IM [injected into muscle] doses. There is no need for men to inject hCG IM.

    Research using SC injections in men has demonstrated the effectiveness of the 250 iu EOD dosing. You can seek diabetic patient educational material for insulin injection techniques to use for hCG and/or testosterone injections.

    Pregnenolone - Why You Need It
    Pregnenolone is a hormone that many Doctors and men are not familiar with or understand it's role in the CHOL pathways but it's critically important to our health as it is a "precursor hormone" to all other hormones. Restoring Pregnenolone to optimal levels is important but seems to get the least attention by Doctors. Remember, the testes are the single largest producer of the hormone Pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is important for proper mental functioning and is the precursor to all of the steroid hormones found in the three CHOL pathways such as DHEA, testosterone, DHT, estrogen, cortisol...

    So what are the benefits of Pregnenolone?

    In our bodies Pregnenolone is manufactured by cholesterol (CHOL). The hormone performs many functions in a mans body, including:

    1. Promotes healthy brain function and protects against dementia and Alzheimer's disease. Many men state feeling good when they start supplementing Pregnenolone.
    2. It can also prevent age related diseases and support the Central Nervous System (CNS).
    3. Boosts the immune system and increases energy produciton.
    4. Protects against coronary disease and improves heart health and can lower cholesterol levels.
    5. Enhances mood and relieves depression. Many men state their mood betters when they start supplementation.
    6. Relieves arthritis pain!
    7. Fights the effects of fatigue and stress.

    The optimal serum levels for Pregnenolone is 180 ng/dl for men. Pregnenolone can be purchased over the counter in a pill (micronized is the best for pills) or sublingual form in addition to transdermal creams. A typical dose is 50 to 200 mg daily best taken in the morning on an empty stomach (cream applied in the morning as well). Pregnenolone is considered safe and because is converts to DHEA which leads to other hormones it's best to get your Pregnenolone levels tested before supplementing.

    DHEA Supplementation
    Dehydroepiandrosterone: DHEA
    As presented by Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D.

    Here's a great reason to add DHEA to your protcol.

    DHEA is a hormone secreted primarily by the adrenal glands. It results in a shift of a catabolic state to an anabolic or protein building state.

     It reduces cardiovascular risks by increasing lipolyses (decrease visceral fat).
     It stimulates the immune system, restores sexual vitality, improves moods, decreases cholesterol and body fat.
     It improves memory, increases energy, and has anti-cancer properties by enhancing the immune system.
     It is an endocrine precursor to other hormones, prevents immuno-senescence, loss of sleep, osteoporosis, atherosclerosis.
     DHEA reduces insulin requirement
     Adrenal hormone anabolic vs. catabolic metabolism
     Restores immunity
     Prevents osteoporosis, increases bone density
     Prevents cancer in lab animals
     Prevents diabetes & heart disease
     Decreases visceral fat
     Improves mood & well-being
     Improves energy & memory
     Slows aging process in lab animals
     Prevents lipid peroxidation =
    antioxidant
     Endocrine precursor to T.P.E.
     7-keto DHEA is not a precursor to other HRT = avoid
     Neurotransmitter (recently discovered)
     Presently pending FDA approval for Lupus (Prasterone)

    Clinically substantiated uses of DHEA include replacement for:
     Low DHEA levels
     Chronic disease
     Adrenal exhaustion or corticosteroid therapy
     SLE
     Improving bone density
     Improving depression & mood disorders
     Enhancing immune response by activating T-cells
     Improving well-being
     Decreasing cardiovascular risk
     Improving erectile dysfunction
     Anyone over 40
     DHEA has never been shown to reverse the aging process
     Nevertheless DHEA is important for preventive medicine
     DHEA inhibits synthesis of thromboxane A2, reduces plasminogen activator inhibitor, and tissue plasminogen activator
    – all decreasing platelet aggregation and ischemia.

    Administraiton:
    Men<200lb: 50mg AM
    Men>200lb: 75-100mg AM

    Women <50yo: 10-15mg AM
    Women >50yo: 25mg AM

    IMPORTANT:
    DHEA Serum Levels
     MEN
     Range 100-600
     Optimal 500-600
    WOMEN
     Range 50-300
     Optimal 200-250

    Higher levels in women predispose them to side effects – therefore stay low
     Monitor monthly until optimal
     Assure correct dose and compliance
     Measure DHEA-S and not DHEA

     Side effects: acne, hirsutism
     Tx: Lower dose or take QOD Spironolactone 100 mg/day
     Contraindicated in sex hormone responsive tumors – breast, ovarian, uterine, prostate
     Conversion to T.P.E.?
     DHEA raises testosterone levels in women slightly, yet not in men
     DHEA raises estradiol slightly in men

    Indications:
     Over age 40 for health protection
     Preventive medicine and well-being
     Symptoms of aging, mood & depression
     ‘Cause the medical literature suggests it if we want to live longer, happier, healthier

    DHEA – S04
     MEN Blood levels
     Optimal : 500-600 ug/ml
     Side effects rare in men
    WOMEN
     Optimal : 200-250 ug/ml
     Dose based on side effects
     Side effects very common in women

    DHEA Dose
     MEN
     Capsule – SR micronized
     50 mg Q am
     >200 lbs – 75 - 100 mg Q am

    WOMEN
     Capsule – SR micronized
     10 mg Q am if over 40
     15 mg Q am if over 50
     25 mg Q am if over 60
     If under age 40, do not prescribe due to sensitivity causing side effects.

    Peace my brothers!
    Last edited by steroid.com 1; 03-31-2013 at 03:36 PM.

  2. #2
    lifter65 is offline Associate Member
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    great read, although i feel that some endos have no idea about this

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    I can attest to all the benefits of HCG beyond just "re-inflating my boys".

    Awesome post. I finally have a clearer understanding of the whole process. Well put!

    Thanks for all the info. I vote this be made a "sticky" at the top of the page.

    F/T

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    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    gdevine's HCG crusade has benefited many in this forum, myself included. I know I can feel a mood boost within an hour after doing my HCG injection. It is so noticable that I am looking into moving to EOD instead of 2x/week.

    Thanks for the info gdevine!

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    Chichester is offline New Member
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    With my bad pituitary, special thanks.

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    38jumper38 is offline Senior Member
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    well done, maybe more and more people will add HCG tp cycles.

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    Swifto is offline Banned- Scammer!
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    Nice read, although I have been saying this for years and have various articles of my own on the use of HCG , oral DHEA and Pregnenelone on cycle for those on HRT.

    Sperm production is not "practically halted" on cycle by the way. Many have got their partners pregnant on cycle and/or during HRT.

    Spermatagenisis is directly correlated to testes size from what I have found in most cases.

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    I guess what gets me Swifto is that men who are suffering from Low T and go to a uninformed GP or Endo and who receive enough Test to shut them down but don't get put on hCG as a standard for their protocol.

    It's a sin.

    Instead, some men have to beg to get hCG or find a new Doc who will prescribe it for them. Men need to understand the importance of hCG as it's much more then having "plump balls." Exogenous Test causes a self induced organ failure and hCG will prevent that from happening and all the bad sides that come with it.
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    Man I'm glad I found this post. I've been on trt for about 8 weeks and have asked my doctor about hcg because of the above listed symptons. Only to be told they don't prescribe it! I was referred to another doctor though because mine had the Balls to tell me she was real up on the subject. I will print this and take it with me. Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jilsley View Post
    Man I'm glad I found this post. I've been on trt for about 8 weeks and have asked my doctor about hcg because of the above listed symptons. Only to be told they don't prescribe it! I was referred to another doctor though because mine had the Balls to tell me she was real up on the subject. I will print this and take it with me. Thanks again.
    Good for you man!

    This thread should/needs to be a "sticky".

    hCG as part of a complete TRT protocol is very important for everything here and more.

    Men should be able to resource this information here easily and not "find" it through a search...it's too important to a men's well being on TRT.

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    ecdysone is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    One point I respectfully question is the increased synthesis of pregnenolone by HCG .

    Namely, that it is significant only for women, where its production leads to tissue growth, etc.

    In men the stimulation of pregnenolone by HCG, as localized in the testes, is to serve as 'feed stock' that leads to increased testosterone synthesis. For those people supplementing with testosterone, this pathway is therefore of little consequence.

    From what I can find, the circulating levels of pregnenolone do not appreciably change after injecting HCG.

    I believe the theory that pregnenolone levels would go up in response to HCG is something promoted by a well-known HRT doc, but all of the studies I have read say otherwise.

    Not offering myself out as a HCG expert, but it was something I see listed alot, even though the evidence is not there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecdysone View Post
    One point I respectfully question is the increased synthesis of pregnenolone by HCG .

    Namely, that it is significant only for women, where its production leads to tissue growth, etc.

    In men the stimulation of pregnenolone by HCG, as localized in the testes, is to serve as 'feed stock' that leads to increased testosterone synthesis. For those people supplementing with testosterone, this pathway is therefore of little consequence.

    From what I can find, the circulating levels of pregnenolone do not appreciably change after injecting HCG.

    I believe the theory that pregnenolone levels would go up in response to HCG is something promoted by a well-known HRT doc, but all of the studies I have read say otherwise.

    Not offering myself out as a HCG expert, but it was something I see listed alot, even though the evidence is not there.
    First, let me say what an intelligent and well stated position...love it!

    Here's my $0.02 on it as it pertains to hCG (a true LH analog) and Pregnenolone and my personal experience.

    I was diagnosed as Secondary Hypogonadism. Low LH and FSH levels.

    When I started on TRT four years ago we started at, what today is high, 200 mg per week of Test Cyp and 1000 iu of hCG in two 500 iu two and one day before Test injection...Crisler protocol.

    At 8 weeks BW all of my Test Panels were elevated over all reference ranges. We reduced Test Cyp levels to 100 mg but did not adjust hCG dosage.

    Outcome?

    My Test Panels on next pull fell slightly but not in a rational ratio to the reduction in Test dosage reduction.

    Deduction?

    hCG was providing for a decent level of natural production. We reduced hCG from 500 iu to 250 iu and on next BW all my Test Panels reduced accordingly.

    In order for that to happen hCG is converting CHOL, thru the P450 Side Chain, into Pregnenolone...it has to if you look at the Androgen Pathway...there is no other way to explain it my Doc concluded.

    That being said, I still supplement with Pregnenolone and DHEA to help support back filling of the pathways.

    hCG also supports both the Mineralocorticold and Gluccorticold pathways as well. Both of these will be in some level of deficient as well do to HPTA suppression and another reason why hCG is needed in a protocol...again...my $0.02.

  13. #13
    ecdysone is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Totally agree!

    My comment that the stimulated production of the pregnenolone pathway by HCG was of no consequence referred only to pregnenolone, no question that the testosterone produced is significant to circulating levels.

    Oh, now I think of it, two more points to append to your OP:

    --HCG seems in many guys to elevate mood by some unknown mechanism. Hence, the newer Crisler protocol to add it on day +2 and +1.

    --Despite the often stated fact that very high doses of HCG will down-regulate its target tissues, a couple studies show this does not occur even with doses >5000 IU/week for long periods of time. However, it's unlikely the body can do much with such high doses [with the exception of fertility therapy] so it's a waste of hormone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecdysone View Post
    Totally agree!

    My comment that the stimulated production of the pregnenolone pathway by HCG was of no consequence referred only to pregnenolone, no question that the testosterone produced is significant to circulating levels.

    Oh, now I think of it, two more points to append to your OP:

    --HCG seems in many guys to elevate mood by some unknown mechanism. Hence, the newer Crisler protocol to add it on day +2 and +1.

    --Despite the often stated fact that very high doses of HCG will down-regulate its target tissues, a couple studies show this does not occur even with doses >5000 IU/week for long periods of time. However, it's unlikely the body can do much with such high doses [with the exception of fertility therapy] so it's a waste of hormone.
    I think your going to become a Knowledgeable Member before you hit 100 posts!

    hCG does seems to act as a neurohormone as well. It's one reason why Crisler makes a compelling argument for its use in men who are Primary. A lot of men also state a spike in libido as well...and I can atest to that.

    We don't understand how hCG works 100% for sure...but it's a wonderful adjunct to any TRT protocol for so many reasons.

    And totally agree with your last statement. Men have only so many androgen receptors so how much do we really need to max on efficacy?

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    ecdysone is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    I think your going to become a Knowledgeable Member before you hit 100 posts!
    Thanks! I learn alot of practical stuff from you guys since I've only been doing TRT for a few months - so glad to give something back in exchange.

    Although this is a little off-topic for your thread, the guys should keep a heads up for Luveris, which is a recombinant LH and much loved by fertility folks.

    Right now it's more expensive than HCG in the equivalent fertility dosing, and doesn't seem to offer any special advantages, but wouldn't be surprised to see prices fall and TRT docs thinking about using it.

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    Good stuff ecdysone...keep your posting here active.

    Thank you!

    gd

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    I feel really dumb when I read ya'lls posts and comments. Guess thats what newbies are for though. Learning alot, thanks guys

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    bass is online now HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jilsley View Post
    I feel really dumb when I read ya'lls posts and comments. Guess thats what newbies are for though. Learning alot, thanks guys
    been there done that, keep reading the stickies...

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    WerewolfBaby is offline New Member
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    34, so if I do 500 iu HCG per week will Sperm count stay good?

    I have a thread of my situation on here and PCT forum as well but not getting much help.

    I am debating between some kind of Restart protocol (which I have lightly started....10mg Nolva per day plus .25 Liquidex twice per week, plus MIN and Zinc to get my e2 down, waiting on 10000 iu of HCG so I could take as much as I want)......and going on HRT/TRT.....

    If I HRT/TRT following some kind of Crisler Protocol which I believe is only 250 iu taken TWO Days of the week, the days preceeding your test Shot (100-125 mg Test C) ie days 5 and 6, injecting Test on day 7.....is that enough HCG and the right amount to use if I want to keep my sperm count up at 34??? HCG goes bad, so buying it in 5000 iu means that you have a ton more if you want right since it goes bad in about a month....not 10 weeks as this protocol would last it....lbut it goes bad sooner even in Bacteriostatic water right?

    Please answer and help me on my thread!!! Please

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    WerewolfBaby is offline New Member
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    My Pregnenolone is super high like 650, even though super low TT, Free T, and DHEA.....is that somewhat common? I've done almost 1 cycle in my life....9 weeks of Test+Deca over 6 months ago.....would that be left over from Deca and my high 51.4 E2???? I am not wanting to ever cycle or anythng ever again........but need to know if it is common for the Preg and E2 to be so high 6 months after such a short cycle or if something else is more wrong? Is high Pregnenolone bad, or even helpful as an Anti inflammatory??? I have Lupus, is that why? thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by WerewolfBaby View Post
    I have a thread of my situation on here and PCT forum as well but not getting much help.

    I am debating between some kind of Restart protocol (which I have lightly started....10mg Nolva per day plus .25 Liquidex twice per week, plus MIN and Zinc to get my e2 down, waiting on 10000 iu of HCG so I could take as much as I want)......and going on HRT/TRT.....

    If I HRT/TRT following some kind of Crisler Protocol which I believe is only 250 iu taken TWO Days of the week, the days preceeding your test Shot (100-125 mg Test C) ie days 5 and 6, injecting Test on day 7.....is that enough HCG and the right amount to use if I want to keep my sperm count up at 34??? HCG goes bad, so buying it in 5000 iu means that you have a ton more if you want right since it goes bad in about a month....not 10 weeks as this protocol would last it....lbut it goes bad sooner even in Bacteriostatic water right?

    Please answer and help me on my thread!!! Please
    Bump your original Thread.

  22. #22
    WerewolfBaby is offline New Member
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    G....can you please answer about my Pregnenolone being double that of the highest in normal range at 648? It would seem to me by your posts, that that would be very uncommon, as well as the range itself....yet I have below normal TT. Where is all that precurser hormone going, since my TT and DHEA are low (I started supplimenting due to your other thread 25 mg mincronized per day). My e2 is a high 51.....but those on big cycles sometimes have higher............so where is all my Pregnenolone going??? I do have Lupus, so since you say it can fight inflammation according to this thread, I wonder if this is some kind of lupus thing, though I have never ever read about it.

    Have you heard of numbers this high? When? Can it be a good thing? A Bad thing? thanks

  23. #23
    Script is offline New Member
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    GDevine, will the administration of HCG during TRT raise LH and FSH levels and subsequently show up in labs? Or does hcg "mimic" LH and therefore doesn't show up in labs?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Script View Post
    GDevine, will the administration of HCG during TRT raise LH and FSH levels and subsequently show up in labs? Or does hcg "mimic" LH and therefore doesn't show up in labs?
    hCG is an LH analog; thus the body sees and responds to it as if it were LH. It will not raise LH of FSH with exogenous Testosterone as a man would be HPTA suppressed.

  25. #25
    Forest is offline Junior Member
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    Could a lack of LH or "HPTA suppression" occurring during TRT therapy manifest itself as poor libido and mild erectile dysfunction?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest View Post
    Could a lack of LH or "HPTA suppression" occurring during TRT therapy manifest itself as poor libido and mild erectile dysfunction?
    Absolutely, along with other things as well like elevated or suppressed E2 levels causing the same.

    Low libido and ED can be caused by many things; BW will tell you what's going on.

  27. #27
    Forest is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the response. Been on TRT therapy for a couple of years without the need for HCG , but have recently "upped" my dosage a bit. Blasting so to speak from 200mg/10 days to 200mg/5 days. My doc has me doing BW once a year so I thought I would experiment as I am sure many of you have. Its really decreased my sex drive and my hardness if you know what I mean. Otherwise I feel great but am seriously suffering in bed. Not good. This has been quite a learning experience. Great thanks to this forum and members. I'll get it right in time.

  28. #28
    tacos is offline New Member
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    Is it cool to just ask my doctor about the possibility of him prescribing the hcg ? Is it possible they can give the shots there? He never mentioned this to me. I'm 36 years old and was recently put on Cyp at 2 400 mg shots a month. If he doesn't want to do it. Where else could one go to find out about this med. Thanks

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacos View Post
    Is it cool to just ask my doctor about the possibility of him prescribing the hcg? Is it possible they can give the shots there? He never mentioned this to me. I'm 36 years old and was recently put on Cyp at 2 400 mg shots a month. If he doesn't want to do it. Where else could one go to find out about this med. Thanks
    Your Physician needs to understand the mechanics of HPTA suppression caused by exogenous Testosterone treatments and the us of hCG as an LH analog. If he doesn't understand this than perhaps you are not getting the correct care by a educated Physician.

    Google hCG and study.

  30. #30
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    Thanks for this very informative post!

    I used to treat my low T by using hcg as a stand-alone. Did the blood work & everything, and found that 750 IU's, 3/ week, kept me right in the high normal range. However, I started having problems acquiring hcg, so I ended up just going to my doctor & discussing it with him. I came clean about what I had been doing, & he didn't seem too bothered by it, but he was unwilling to prescribe me any hcg. He did, however, write me a prescription for some cyp, which I have been using for about 6 weeks now. Still trying to zero in on the correct dosage.

    But...

    In the mean time, I seem to have re-established a reliable source for the hcg. So I guess I have 2 options:

    1) Stop the cyp, & just go back to using the hcg as a stand-alone.
    2) Continue the cyp, but mix in a little hcg as the original post suggested.

    If I go with option 2, am I correct in my assumption that the hcg will raise my T levels over what they would be if on the cyp alone?

    What do you guys think I should do? Any advice is appreciated.

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    Pale1 - There are a number of very trustworthy online pharmacies where you can purchase pharmacy grade hCG .

  32. #32
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    One thing I dont see. When you are on HRT and running HCG do you run it continually or cycle off/on? Lets say you are doing the normal 250 EOD of HCG.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Pale1 - There are a number of very trustworthy online pharmacies where you can purchase pharmacy grade hCG.
    Thanks gdevine. I think I've established a relationship with a reliable source, I've actually got a pretty good supply of hcg right now. What do you think I should do? Treat my low T with the hcg only (I can do this with 750 IU's, 3x weekly), or just use the cyp that my doctor prescribed me & supplement that with a little hcg as you suggested?

  34. #34
    MAC9408 is offline New Member
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    Whats up guys new here just had a quick question. I've been on TRT for about 4 months now and I was thinking about adding HCG . My question is will my test levels be higher after adding the HCG as opposed to when I was just getting the test shots? My Dr has made it very well known that he will administer the test but if he finds out that i'm getting it from him and doing more on my own he will not prescribe it anymore. Just dont want him to think that i'm doing something im not. Trying to find out exactly how HCG works. Thanks guys.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC9408 View Post
    Whats up guys new here just had a quick question. I've been on TRT for about 4 months now and I was thinking about adding HCG. My question is will my test levels be higher after adding the HCG as opposed to when I was just getting the test shots? My Dr has made it very well known that he will administer the test but if he finds out that i'm getting it from him and doing more on my own he will not prescribe it anymore. Just dont want him to think that i'm doing something im not. Trying to find out exactly how HCG works. Thanks guys.
    yes hCG will increase your test level. its better to start your own thread so you can get better help.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    One thing I dont see. When you are on HRT and running HCG do you run it continually or cycle off/on? Lets say you are doing the normal 250 EOD of HCG.
    Our natural production of LH does not "cycle" so why would we want to do the same with hCG (an LH analog).

    The body thrives on regularity.

    No cycling needed on TRT.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    yes hCG will increase your test level. its better to start your own thread so you can get better help.
    Correct, but hCG as a mono therapy is rarely successful in reaching optimal levels.

    You'd do best with coadministered Testosterone and hCG.

  38. #38
    aspen2cody is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Correct, but hCG as a mono therapy is rarely successful in reaching optimal levels.

    You'd do best with coadministered Testosterone and hCG.
    Great thread, my doc did inform me that beginning this week we would be incoporating HCG along with an AI. I am excited that after reading this, I am on the right track. He did inform me that I will have to administer my own HCG.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen2cody View Post
    Great thread, my doc did inform me that beginning this week we would be incoporating HCG along with an AI. I am excited that after reading this, I am on the right track. He did inform me that I will have to administer my own HCG.
    Excellent, you are in goood care!

  40. #40
    aspen2cody is offline New Member
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    gdevine, I have a question for you. I was told after I mix the bac water with the HCG and inject the dosage, the remaining is to be refrigerated. Should the remaining bac water be refrigerated too. My instructions doesnt address the remaining water.

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