I want to save a 74 yr man's life and need help doing it.

**PitMaster** · 08-14-2011, 12:20 AM

My fiance's Grandfather is 74.
2 years ago out of no where he started losing Muscle mass rapidly. His skin as he showed me was hanging off him. Lost a lot of weight. He has C.O.P.D(firedepartment injury).
His doc told him exercise and diet. Diet he can do, exercise no so much. He is lethargic, on oxygen at home and sedentiary now. He has given up...I know this..

I am still learning on this site and need more ammo to bring to him to get him to ask for a hormone panel and the reasons for it. I absolutely believe in my heart that bringing his test levels up would increase his quality of life. I am going to tell him to get a hormone panel done(I will take him). What are the best questions I could give the doctor pre-test and post test?

I am still not educated enough with BW and need some assistance. I will be printing out all your reply's to bring with me to speak to him about (the GP). I need all views and be honest. Thanks in advance....

**JD250** · 08-14-2011, 12:38 AM

You should contact someone who could give you good medical advice based on his physical condition concerning HRT...........DR Crisler will work with other doctors.......I can certainly appreciate your effort and this is the best advice I can give, I applaud you for your concern about his health. Good luck bro.

**PitMaster** · 08-14-2011, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by JD250

You should contact someone who could give you good medical advice based on his physical condition concerning HRT...........DR Crisler will work with other doctors.......I can certainly appreciate your effort and this is the best advice I can give, I applaud you for your concern about his health. Good luck bro.

I will look up this doctor...
I am not sure how hrt will effect him with c.o.p.d.. His doc seems like a lame ass and he has given up..I'm BS about all of it and tried talking to him about diet, he thinks he's dieting appropriately,,,,,not. I'll work on that more but need something better to go on and having him see his results from a panel would be a good start.
tHX.

**Times Roman** · 08-14-2011, 02:58 AM

my pops is about the same age, atrophying... also a retired fireman. stubborn old dude, and won't listen. so i get to watch him whither away, unfortunately...

**gixxerboy1** · 08-14-2011, 12:52 PM

Honestly bro i dont think it will help much. I just watched this happen. My father passed away in January. COPD retired fireman.
COPD is brutal and cause damage to alot of the body. Test isnt going to be miracle drug unfortunately.

**PitMaster** · 08-14-2011, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

my pops is about the same age, atrophying... also a retired fireman. stubborn old dude, and won't listen. so i get to watch him whither away, unfortunately...

Even if these guys was put on some test, couldn't it increase appetite and the protein start putting muscle back on w/o exercise..or just make them fat and sedentiary? Maybe getting some test in them will get them moving at least a lil bit...or give them a lil lift from depression. Gotta be something can be done......shit.

**PitMaster** · 08-14-2011, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

Honestly bro i dont think it will help much. I just watched this happen. My father passed away in January. COPD retired fireman.
COPD is brutal and cause damage to alot of the body. Test isnt going to be miracle drug unfortunately.

Bigger shit....I dunno if I should bring it up and give him false hope if we go to the doc and he says, not a good idea.

I wanna move up there for a couple months and try to force is stubborn ass to eat when I eat, at least. I don't have my diet pinned down, but I got the basics. It's hard to advise someone when I'm not a pro at this yet..

sry. to hear bout u guys dads...looks like c.o.p.d. one tough road for men that worked such a noble, self sacrifcing job.

**gixxerboy1** · 08-14-2011, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by PitMaster

Bigger shit....I dunno if I should bring it up and give him false hope if we go to the doc and he says, not a good idea.

I wanna move up there for a couple months and try to force is stubborn ass to eat when I eat, at least. I don't have my diet pinned down, but I got the basics. It's hard to advise someone when I'm not a pro at this yet..

sry. to hear bout u guys dads...looks like c.o.p.d. one tough road for men that worked such a noble, self sacrifcing job.

Its really nice you want to help. I wish i had better advice and hopefully he is in better shape then my father. But they gave my dad things to increase appetite all kinds of drugs. He ended up being less then 90lbs when he passed/

**PitMaster** · 08-14-2011, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

Its really nice you want to help. I wish i had better advice and hopefully he is in better shape then my father. But they gave my dad things to increase appetite all kinds of drugs. He ended up being less then 90lbs when he passed/

He's on oxygen 24/7 now. He's very light..Doesn't talk much anymore. On a bunch of inhalers etc..
I'm gonna look for studies on c.o.p.d. and test/hrt.

If anyone has studies on this subject...please post. thx.

**Phate** · 08-14-2011, 05:53 PM

I've never seen it used for COPD, but it is commonly used for AIDS and muscle wasting diseases, which could be applicable here. Personally, though I don't think it will help with the COPD, it could help him keep his weight on and possibly even gain weight. As far as appetite goes, personally the best thing i've ever found for it is THC, bar none.

**PitMaster** · 08-14-2011, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

I've never seen it used for COPD, but it is commonly used for AIDS and muscle wasting diseases, which could be applicable here. Personally, though I don't think it will help with the COPD, it could help him keep his weight on and possibly even gain weight. As far as appetite goes, personally the best thing i've ever found for it is THC, bar none.

Well he's wasting away so I figured an increase in test would be a good start in the right direction. As far as THC, I don't think I'll be able to open him up to that..

**Phate** · 08-14-2011, 09:44 PM

just throwing it out there, i've seen what test/hgh/thc can do for AIDS patients(not HIV) and it's flat out amazing how well their appetite jumps up and the weight just start packing on once they hit a nice anabolic level. Talk to a doctor that specializes in it and see what they have to say.

**Bonaparte** · 08-15-2011, 12:34 AM

COPD covers asthma, chronic bronchitis, and emphysema. Which one does he have? (I would assume the latter due to smoke inhalation).

His problem is that his alveoli are inflammed and messed up, so he isn't getting adequate oxygen. HRT isn't going to do much here, and there is little to do, which is why the doctors have largely given up. Adding muscle mass would actually make the issue worse, since then he'll require more oxygen and get winded more easily. IMO the only thing you can do for him is to make his daughter happy.
If it makes you feel any better, he has already greatly exceeded the life expectancy of a firefighter by over 20 years. Nobody becomes a firefighter because they want to live to be 100.

**PitMaster** · 08-15-2011, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Phate

just throwing it out there, i've seen what test/hgh/thc can do for AIDS patients(not HIV) and it's flat out amazing how well their appetite jumps up and the weight just start packing on once they hit a nice anabolic level. Talk to a doctor that specializes in it and see what they have to say.

I'm gonna look for anti-aging clinic as close as possible.

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

COPD covers asthma, chronic bronchitis, and emphysema. Which one does he have? (I would assume the latter due to smoke inhalation).

His problem is that his alveoli are inflammed and messed up, so he isn't getting adequate oxygen. HRT isn't going to do much here, and there is little to do, which is why the doctors have largely given up. Adding muscle mass would actually make the issue worse, since then he'll require more oxygen and get winded more easily. IMO the only thing you can do for him is to make his daughter happy.
If it makes you feel any better, he has already greatly exceeded the life expectancy of a firefighter by over 20 years. Nobody becomes a firefighter because they want to live to be 100.

He has the two in bold that I know of. Seemed like he got bad so abruptly.
I think when we are younger we pick work and don't really think of life expectancy. I guess this is why some of us have lived so recklessly or do things that are self sacrifcial. Not thinking about one self until issues arise and then the penalty has to be paid. Young = invincible...old=beat up.

I guess I could just ask him if he would like to try somehting different as far as treatment options with a chance that it may not work. Sometimes better to try and have hope, keep fighting. Otherwise things are unchanged, stagnant and definite.

an angle I did not see about extra mass vs. extra oxygen...I have to think on this and will bring to his attention if at all. Thx.

**Bonaparte** · 08-15-2011, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by PitMaster

an angle I did not see about extra mass vs. extra oxygen...I have to think on this and will bring to his attention if at all. Thx.

Yeah man, muscle mass makes a huge difference in oxygen demand. When I went through fire training a few months ago I would burn through an SCBA air tank twice as fast as the girls and skinny kids with much less lean mass than myself. Obviously cardio conditioning has much to do with it, but I could keep up fine with them when I could breathe as much as I wanted.
So really, being skinny (within reason) is going to increase his lifespan more than anything at this point.

**PitMaster** · 08-15-2011, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Yeah man, muscle mass makes a huge difference in oxygen demand. When I went through fire training a few months ago I would burn through an SCBA air tank twice as fast as the girls and skinny kids with much less lean mass than myself. Obviously cardio conditioning has much to do with it, but I could keep up fine with them when I could breathe as much as I wanted.
So really, being skinny (within reason) is going to increase his lifespan more than anything at this point.

Well u just threw a monkey in my wrench..So I need to figure a way for him to have LbM, not throw on a bunch of water and fat. Diet/exercise........He can't breathe....sshhhhiiiittt. I don't see a simple solution and I am not schooled enough yet on all other compounds that could be incorporated here. Not that he would take any of them.

Thx. for all the input guys. I still research more I don't want to make any hasty decisions and suggest anything incorrectly.

**Bonaparte** · 08-15-2011, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by PitMaster

Well u just threw a monkey in my wrench..So I need to figure a way for him to have LbM, not throw on a bunch of water and fat. Diet/exercise........He can't breathe....sshhhhiiiittt. I don't see a simple solution and I am not schooled enough yet on all other compounds that could be incorporated here. Not that he would take any of them.

Thx. for all the input guys. I still research more I don't want to make any hasty decisions and suggest anything incorrectly.

I think you misread my post. I stated that LBM (which I have an abundance of compared to most of my classmates), increases your need for oxygen. So he's better off just being skinny, so long as he isn't too weak to get out of bed and carry his O2 bottle. Sure, somthing like Primo would reverse the catabolism without many negative side effects, but I doubt it would help him live longer (since breathing is his main issue, not wasting).
Most advanced COPD patients are scrawny and chicken-chested. While this is a side effect of breathing hard (accessory muscle usage for breathing deforms the thorax), it also may be an adaptive mechanism (but this is just my theory).

**PitMaster** · 08-15-2011, 08:27 PM

How about this theory. If he at least increases his water intake it would help supply oxygen to his organs and what little muscle he does have, thus maybe it would help take the load off of his respiratory system.

As far as lbm, I was looking at it wrong. I was thinking about him adding size and agree it would be harder on him. I figured leaning out and toning up Instead. I was looking at this wrong. Cuz even if he didn't get bigger he would still have increased LBM..Understood...thx.

**Bonaparte** · 08-15-2011, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by PitMaster

How about this theory. If he at least increases his water intake it would help supply oxygen to his organs and what little muscle he does have, thus maybe it would help take the load off of his respiratory system.

Well yeah, he should obviously stay hydrated. But the most important thing is that pure oxygen that he is already on.