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  1. #1
    streeter's Avatar
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    Hmmm What do you guys think?

    Like many of you I pay out of pocket for my HRT from a clinic in Florida. So I have been on 200mg Test Cyp every 7 days and have felt great with no problems ever with it.

    So I wanted to pursue a urologist to give me a script so my insurance pays and I don't have to fork out so much coin. So today I finally got a doctor to give me a script.

    Heres the bad part he thinks 200mg e7days is too much and wants me to only do 200mg every two weeks or 100mg every 7 days. Now I have enough Test that I could keep running my normal routine but he wants to see my bloodwork in 3 months. He says if it's not what it is now 890 and it's in a more reasonable range then he won't check again but once a year.

    So I am trying to figure out how is the best way to get the number he wants to see in three months without splitting my dosage in half over the next three months.

    So do you think if month 1 I stick with 200mg weekly and month 2 I go to 150mg weekly and the third month I pin 100mg weight ten days and do blood work it will be around 500 which is what he wants to see it at the day before pinning? Or should I just go cold turkey about 13 days just before blood work. I don't want it to be too low he might figure out something isn't right.

    What do you think is best? This also puts off my next cycle I was going to do for 3 months until this next blood work is done, Sucks but worth it I guess I paid only 8 bucks co-pay for a bottle of test today.

  2. #2
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    keep it at 100mgs with your new doc and see where blood levels are in a few months

  3. #3
    zaggahamma's Avatar
    zaggahamma is offline Mr. Moderation
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    would like to know what your levels are at 200mg ew including anything else your on and all your horomone levels to give an opinion...

    usually 200mg of test is a very high (trt) dose but always its individual...

    what your asking though is going to be easy to pull off so your good to go either way..


    congrats on getting covered with insurance

  4. #4
    streeter's Avatar
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    Yea, it's been a long road to get covered I have been paying out of pocket for a year. He doesn't believe in HCG or anastrozole either so if I take any I will have to buy it. Good thing I already have a surplus. When I first started HRT with a local low-t center I was 200mg every 10 days with the low T center I went from my natural production level of 189 to 890 on day 10 between injections so I know 200 is high side of HRT but I swear I can feel myself getting sluggish on day 9 and day 10 I start to get miserable. Maybe I am just spoiled and love the feeling of having energy like I was 19 again but isn't that the reason for HRT.

    Here is what my doc told me today. There has been a lot of studies on what low levels do to men and we know what testosterone does to the human body to correct it but there hasn't been a lot of studies as to what happens to the body over long terms with a high level so he likes to be minimalist at the same time making you feel better. He says some studies suggest hardening of the arteries at high dosages over a long period of time. He then went into the whole bodybuilding thing. I kept my mouth shut at this point to not ruin my chances to get a script I wanted to say I don't like the roller coaster effect but I didn't. Honestly everyone dies I think I would rather lose 5 to 10 years and feel great with what I have left than to be minimalist and ride that roller coaster. Lets be honest here when you go there's no reminiscing and saying crap if I had only done this I would have lived another 6 years theres no way of knowing either way.

    So for now I will play the game but I'm not gonna let myself get too low I hate the feeling. I get cranky I handle stress badly I lose libido and start gaining weight. No thanks, If I can lower it and feel ok I will if not I will go low for the tests then go back to 200mg. I am a body builder as well so we are prone to use bro-science and take risks and I am already planning my next cycle after this blood test.

  5. #5
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    sounds like your good to go and are just throwin a toast to savin your dollar....agree if it were only a matter of 5-10 years(80vs90 or 90vs80) living mean i than rickety i would sacrifice as well....not sure it has to be that way...

    r u saying u have no idea where your e2, prolactin, etc. levels are?

  6. #6
    streeter's Avatar
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    Yea you got me there I haven't checked my E2 in a long time but I keep taking anstrozole and I havent had any sides but yea I need to get it checked. I had everything else checked except e2 about 6 months ago and was fine. The doc today took like 4 vials of blood so I'm not sure what all he is checking. He said I could call Tuesday for the results. I will he expects my total T to be high since I am on 200 E7D right now.

  7. #7
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streeter View Post
    Yea you got me there I haven't checked my E2 in a long time but I keep taking anstrozole and I havent had any sides but yea I need to get it checked. I had everything else checked except e2 about 6 months ago and was fine. The doc today took like 4 vials of blood so I'm not sure what all he is checking. He said I could call Tuesday for the results. I will he expects my total T to be high since I am on 200 E7D right now.
    what dose of anastrozole are you running with your 200 test

  8. #8
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Also fill out the HIPA form at whatever lab you use so you can get copies of all you bloodwork from this point forward. That way you can review them at any time and maintain your own track record. If you don't have a home fax sign up for a free virtual one. Lab Corp fax's me all results.

  9. #9
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    Remember E follows T. At 200 mg of Test per week I am willing to bet a steak dinner you're over ideal range. You need to get your E2 level tested; an entire endocrine panel is even better.

    Your Doc does not believe in HCG or an AI? What kind of fruit cake are you dealing with? You're in HTPA shutdown for God's sake; does he want yout testes to turn into two small blobs of collagen while you grow man tits at the same time?

    Understand the insurance paying for your Test, but test, even from a clinic, is not that expensive.

    You will need to add in or keep on HCG...and get your E2 assay done (make sure it's a sensitive assay).

    Good luck bro!

  10. #10
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Also fill out the HIPA form at whatever lab you use so you can get copies of all you bloodwork from this point forward. That way you can review them at any time and maintain your own track record. If you don't have a home fax sign up for a free virtual one. Lab Corp fax's me all results.
    If you use Quest Diagnostics and have a smartphone, you can download the Gazelle app and get your results directly from Quest Diagnostics. My doc always gives me a full copy of my labs for my records, but it's nice to see them before I even go into the appointment, so I have my questions all lined up.

  11. #11
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk View Post
    If you use Quest Diagnostics and have a smartphone, you can download the Gazelle app and get your results directly from Quest Diagnostics. My doc always gives me a full copy of my labs for my records, but it's nice to see them before I even go into the appointment, so I have my questions all lined up.
    do you think this can be used to bring up old bloodwork before smartphones and androids landed?

  12. #12
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    do you think this can be used to bring up old bloodwork before smartphones and androids landed?
    I just installed the app and asked for my bloodwork I did 3 days ago. I haven't tried anything earlier, and really don't have labs over a year old.

    Gazelle says it takes 3 days to get the results. When I requested the labs, I had to enter the date, the requesting physician/clinic name (whatever was on the order), and physician/clinic phone number (again what was on the order). So unless you have that exact information from a long time ago, it would be tough to get the lab results, I think.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Remember E follows T. At 200 mg of Test per week I am willing to bet a steak dinner you're over ideal range. You need to get your E2 level tested; an entire endocrine panel is even better.

    Your Doc does not believe in HCG or an AI? What kind of fruit cake are you dealing with? You're in HTPA shutdown for God's sake; does he want yout testes to turn into two small blobs of collagen while you grow man tits at the same time?

    Understand the insurance paying for your Test, but test, even from a clinic, is not that expensive.

    You will need to add in or keep on HCG...and get your E2 assay done (make sure it's a sensitive assay).

    Good luck bro!
    I agree with this.

    500 ng/dl is 'normal' for your age, it sounds like he's a pretty typical standard MD that just treats part of the problem and isn't looking to maximize or enhance in any way like the Anti Aging methodology.

    I applaud your effort to reduce costs, but I'd suggest finding another reasonable MD and/or just sticking with a good clinic. If it's truly part of a long term strategy I'd imagine working with a good Dr is better than having to essentially fraud our way along with a automaton Dr just to save a couple hundred bucks a month.

  14. #14
    streeter's Avatar
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    It took months just to find one in my area that will write a script and let you inject at home. I did do this as a long term solution to cost but was planning on supplementing from my current HRT clinic and/or UGL as well but when not bursting trying to get down to what he wants or close to it. He did say he would compromise with me if I felt bad but he wants to see what my level is on 100mg weekly. Then he said he would only test my blood yearly. I plan on being pretty low when he tests it in three months to try to get that compromise and get a better script from him.

    So I guess the real question is in this day of technology can a HRT clinic in one state and a urologist in another state see I am buying from one and getting a script from the other at the same time? I really don't think we're there yet but maybe I am wrong on this.

  15. #15
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streeter View Post
    It took months just to find one in my area that will write a script and let you inject at home. I did do this as a long term solution to cost but was planning on supplementing from my current HRT clinic and/or UGL as well but when not bursting trying to get down to what he wants or close to it. He did say he would compromise with me if I felt bad but he wants to see what my level is on 100mg weekly. Then he said he would only test my blood yearly. I plan on being pretty low when he tests it in three months to try to get that compromise and get a better script from him.

    So I guess the real question is in this day of technology can a HRT clinic in one state and a urologist in another state see I am buying from one and getting a script from the other at the same time? I really don't think we're there yet but maybe I am wrong on this.
    i would think the DEA would be in the know from both pharmacies and would be watching if you were doubling up

  16. #16
    streeter's Avatar
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    Guess I will let you know LOL. Seriously though my script here locally will only let me get a few bottles a year since the script is 200mg every two weeks so a 10ml bottle would last 20 weeks. I don't think refilling that twice a year and then in between buying a bottle or two from your HRT clinic is really going to raise any red flags but I could be wrong. Since I got my script I havent bought anymore from my HRT clinic so I guess I will try to gets some info on this before I buy any.

  17. #17
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streeter View Post
    Guess I will let you know LOL. Seriously though my script here locally will only let me get a few bottles a year since the script is 200mg every two weeks so a 10ml bottle would last 20 weeks. I don't think refilling that twice a year and then in between buying a bottle or two from your HRT clinic is really going to raise any red flags but I could be wrong. Since I got my script I havent bought anymore from my HRT clinic so I guess I will try to gets some info on this before I buy any.
    i'd be real careful with that broski...2 different docs for same med and more than you can use might be worded criminally

  18. #18
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    It's a class 3 felony and every single doc, pharmacy and prescription of a class 3 substance is recorded and registered with the DEA or whatever they call themselves now. I'm sure they wont send a team of jack booted thugs to your house if a couple prescriptions from different docs overlap SLIGHTLY but I wouldn't purposely double dip for any appreciable amount of time if I were you, you should check but I BELIEVE you can have 6 months supply on hand.....CHECK FOR YOURSELF....I could be wrong. I'm fairly sure the DEA doesn't have a sense of humor........don't fvck with them.

  19. #19
    Fred40 is offline Associate Member
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    What about.......my GP wrote a script for test cyp with 5 refills. The refills expire in Feb. of 2012. Each script last approximately 5 months. Can I refill all 5 before the script expires?

    That would obviously give me 2 years worth in a 6 month time frame.

  20. #20
    Bigfoot66 is offline Junior Member
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    That's what I do. I don't abuse it at all, but I've done this just in case of an Apocolypse or another manipulation in health care regulations...I've never been questioned; but my MD checks my levels about every 3 months b/c of blood sugar levels, so he knows I'm not cheating. I only go to him for treatment...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred40 View Post
    What about.......my GP wrote a script for test cyp with 5 refills. The refills expire in Feb. of 2012. Each script last approximately 5 months. Can I refill all 5 before the script expires?

    That would obviously give me 2 years worth in a 6 month time frame.

  21. #21
    Fred40 is offline Associate Member
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    I have no plans to go above the upper range of normal. Just nice to get my monies worth out of the script before having to go in and pay for a new one.

  22. #22
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot66 View Post
    That's what I do. I don't abuse it at all, but I've done this just in case of an Apocolypse or another manipulation in health care regulations...I've never been questioned; but my MD checks my levels about every 3 months b/c of blood sugar levels, so he knows I'm not cheating. I only go to him for treatment...
    also what I and others try to do as well.....some pharmacies read the dose though and if , like mine, doesnt equal to a 10ml vial a month refuse to refill but refilling what is on your script isnt a crime

  23. #23
    ecsaaron is offline Associate Member
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    Two docs same script= Doctor shopping= Felony in Florida.....Big crackdown on pill heads here now....Carefull !! Next thing will be we are using too much toilet paper..
    Last edited by ecsaaron; 09-09-2011 at 01:20 PM. Reason: spelling

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecsaaron View Post
    Two docs same script= Doctor shopping= Felony in Florida.....Big crackdown on pill heads here now....Carefull !! Next thing will be we are using too much toilet paper..
    exactly

    gotta love those crimes with no victims good ole uncle sammy

  25. #25
    streeter's Avatar
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    Hmmm guess I will have to probably pick one or the other.

    One I have good freedom with and can stock up at least six months worth but I have to pay for it. I also worry what if they ever get shut down like others have and then I have nothing. The other is paid for but I don't really like 100mg a week and no HCG or Anastrozole. But if the HRT clinic ever got shut down it would be nice to have a real doctor. I think I will just buy my HCG and Anastrozole from my HRT clinic so I still have them and get my test from the doc.

    Problem then is the HRT clinic will want to know why I'm not buying test so maybe once in a while I might have to buy a bottle as long as I don't have over a 6 month supply but I don't think that will work either since the HRT clinic script is for 1.6 ml E7D and the local doc is .5ml E7D

    Also when i talked to my local doc I told him I had the HRT clinic and he knows I have been buying from them. I told him I wanted him to take over my HRT so I wouldn't have to pay for it. He did but then cut my dosage in half. I haven't bought anything from the clinic since getting the local script. So I guess I will lower my dosage and if I feel ok drop the clinic if I feel bad then I will try to get the doc to compromise with me. If he won't then damn I guess I gotta figure out what to do. Most people have problems getting test I have the opposite problem...it figures.

    It would be a no brainer if he would let me run what I have been running for 9 months already with no problem but I guess I might feel just as good on 100 E7D as well
    Last edited by streeter; 09-10-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  26. #26
    JD250's Avatar
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    Yep, let your doc see how it works and do blood work but dont let him tell you you dont need an AI and HCG , take him something he can read and learn from, it may work out great if you can help him learn about it. Good luck

  27. #27
    streeter's Avatar
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    Well I have decided for my own piece of mind I won't order anything from the HRT clinic as long as I am being seen by my local Doctor. I will try to work with him and see how it goes. I read up on some of the laws and I think I am ok especially since I told my Doctor I was using a HRT clinic and had the script from them but wanted to change over to save money. And since seeing the Doc I haven't placed any other orders with the HRT clinic.

    I am going to try to see how it goes on the lower dosage and see if I can get him to compromise in a few months and meet me half way 150mg weekly. If it doesn't work out I will let him know I want to stop using him before going back to the HRT clinic.

    If he doesn't want to listen about HCG and AI well there's always our sponsor for one of them and I think I can work out the other issue on my own.

  28. #28
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streeter View Post
    Well I have decided for my own piece of mind I won't order anything from the HRT clinic as long as I am being seen by my local Doctor. I will try to work with him and see how it goes. I read up on some of the laws and I think I am ok especially since I told my Doctor I was using a HRT clinic and had the script from them but wanted to change over to save money. And since seeing the Doc I haven't placed any other orders with the HRT clinic.

    I am going to try to see how it goes on the lower dosage and see if I can get him to compromise in a few months and meet me half way 150mg weekly. If it doesn't work out I will let him know I want to stop using him before going back to the HRT clinic.

    If he doesn't want to listen about HCG and AI well there's always our sponsor for one of them and I think I can work out the other issue on my own.
    this keeps u within the law

  29. #29
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    Yep ^^.....I made a similar change too.....just don't try to take advantage of an overlap, you might fool the clinics and your doctor but they arent the ones who will be putting you in the state pen, doesn't make sense to take those sort of chances with something that can be tracked so easily. Sounds like you got it on the right track, hope your doc works out well for you.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD250 View Post
    Yep ^^.....I made a similar change too.....just don't try to take advantage of an overlap, you might fool the clinics and your doctor but they arent the ones who will be putting you in the state pen, doesn't make sense to take those sort of chances with something that can be tracked so easily. Sounds like you got it on the right track, hope your doc works out well for you.
    Thanks JD250 The thing that kills me about this whole thing is the HRT clinic script was 1.6ml E7D which meant as I was taking 200mg/1ml I was stocking up using my script but it was costly. Now with this new Doc his script is for .5ml E7D or 100mg E7D which means yea its cheap just my copay but I already feel a small pull back from lowering my level and I don't have any extra ever.

    If I quit the Doc I have to pay and if the clinic ever goes out of business I am cold turkey. If I keep the doc how can I keep the clinic? I can't. UNLESS will this work...

    Since the Doc script is for test cyp am I within the law if the clinic prescribes Deca and I only buy deca or HCG etc.. anything but test cyp? Could it be so simple as to buying a different test like a mix as long as it's not test cyp to stay off the radar? Probably not I am just thinking out loud.

    I think what I will do is just try the honest approach and let the clinic know I have a local doc prescribing me test cyp to save me money but I don't want to lose them because he has lowered my dosage and if I don't like the service I will want to go back to them in the future .I think I will ask them if it would be legal to purchase deca or HCG from them still just to keep them. I would think they have to know the law and not want to get in trouble with the DEA either and wouldn't sell me something that would end up getting them in trouble if I told them what my local script is for. What do you think?

    The only reason I don't want to lose them is it was expensive to get started with them if they drop me off their customer list and I don't like this doctor I might have to pay all sorts of fees to get back with them.

  31. #31
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streeter View Post
    Thanks JD250 The thing that kills me about this whole thing is the HRT clinic script was 1.6ml E7D which meant as I was taking 200mg/1ml I was stocking up using my script but it was costly. Now with this new Doc his script is for .5ml E7D or 100mg E7D which means yea its cheap just my copay but I already feel a small pull back from lowering my level and I don't have any extra ever.

    If I quit the Doc I have to pay and if the clinic ever goes out of business I am cold turkey. If I keep the doc how can I keep the clinic? I can't. UNLESS will this work...

    Since the Doc script is for test cyp am I within the law if the clinic prescribes Deca and I only buy deca or HCG etc.. anything but test cyp? Could it be so simple as to buying a different test like a mix as long as it's not test cyp to stay off the radar? Probably not I am just thinking out loud.

    I think what I will do is just try the honest approach and let the clinic know I have a local doc prescribing me test cyp to save me money but I don't want to lose them because he has lowered my dosage and if I don't like the service I will want to go back to them in the future .I think I will ask them if it would be legal to purchase deca or HCG from them still just to keep them. I would think they have to know the law and not want to get in trouble with the DEA either and wouldn't sell me something that would end up getting them in trouble if I told them what my local script is for. What do you think?

    The only reason I don't want to lose them is it was expensive to get started with them if they drop me off their customer list and I don't like this doctor I might have to pay all sorts of fees to get back with them.
    this is also within the law....2 diff meds

  32. #32
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    OK this sounds crazy but could it be so easy as to have a script from one for test cyp and buy from the other test E or are the two too close together both being testosterone . I can see deca being considered a different drug but the two tests probably are too close together right? Or would it be better to just be on the safe side and keep them for HCG

  33. #33
    Fred40 is offline Associate Member
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    Test Cyp and Test Eth are the same drug. They are virtually interchangeable.

  34. #34
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    i'd err with wut fred said

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    i'd err with wut fred said
    Yea I agree, Maybe deca and hcg though that should be ok. Also the local doc had to hear the words erectile dysfunction before he could treat me and my insurance cover it and the clinic just treats me for quality of life and Low T so they are kinda different as well for what they say they are treating me for but yea I won't push it with the cyp/E thing

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by streeter View Post
    Yea I agree, Maybe deca and hcg though that should be ok. Also the local doc had to hear the words erectile dysfunction before he could treat me and my insurance cover it and the clinic just treats me for quality of life and Low T so they are kinda different as well for what they say they are treating me for but yea I won't push it with the cyp/E thing
    yes....

    so u havent run deca yet?

    wut r your stats and goals with the lil cycle?

  37. #37
    streeter's Avatar
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    I am 46 5'10 201 pounds. I have done 1 basic test dbol cycle 500mg test 30mg dbol

    No I haven't run any Deca yet.
    Goals
    Gain mass
    Get in as good a shape as I can in the next 5 to 10 years then try to maintain it as long as I can.
    Live Forever

    P.S. And take over the world!
    Last edited by streeter; 09-14-2011 at 01:28 PM.

  38. #38
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    we will soon clash then

  39. #39
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Lmao!

  40. #40
    streeter's Avatar
    streeter is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    we will soon clash then

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