Alcohol and bloodwork, kind of advanced and difficult question..

**mrmagic** · 10-06-2011, 02:20 AM

Hi!
Long story short, I have low testosterone (around 315-370) and all the symptoms, but sadly thats not low enough to get the doctors to prescribe testosterone to me. So, what I will do is try to "cheat" and lower my levels as much as I can so that they will be low enough for a prescription. I have been doing this trough 3 steps:
1. A 3-4 hour long run/walking session the day before
2. Constant intake of alcohol the 24 hrs leading up to the test. (about 5cl vodka every 2 hours, so I wont be "drunk")
3. No sleeping the night before the test.

Now, by doing this I managed to get my testosterone levels down to 273, which is great. The problem is that now my doctor will refer me to a specialist, and I will have to do another bloodwork where they will check a lot of other things besides testoserone (I will list the things they probably will check for below) .
Now, I have no problem performing this gruesome anti-testosterone routine again, but they problem is can they see that I have been trying to manipulate the test by looking at my blood work? They will probably test for the following things:
Hemoglobin, erythrocytes, erythrocyte volume fraction (EVF) , erythrocyte mean corpuscular volume (Erc-MCV), mean cell hemoglobin (MCH), erythrocyte mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration (Erc-MCHC), leukocytes,
thrombocytes, Sodium, Potassium,Calcium, Ca, Albumin, Creatinine, threonine-phosphorylated EGFR (pT EGFR), Cystatin C, C-reactive protein (CRP) , S-phosphate, Urea, urate, vS/P-Glucose, fS-triglycerides, s-cholesterol,
fS HDL cholesterol, fS-LDL-choleserol, S-FSH, S-prolactin, S-TESTOSTERONE, S-SHBG, S-Androstenedione, S-DHEAS, P-Fibrinogen, HbA1c) (IFCC), S-TSH (DxI), S-T4, free (DxI).

Now, will it be safe for me to do my routine for this bloodwork as well? Thanks!

**devildog1967** · 10-06-2011, 02:47 AM

Why cheat ? if your blood work is good then just train hard and eat clean. If you have the all the symptoms of low test but test is fine just talk to your doc and try and work it that way ..
He might listen to you and give a test shot to see if it works.

**mrmagic** · 10-06-2011, 02:59 AM

Yeah, I've tried that....for 2 years! I'm 29 years old and my whole life is just pissing away because of this. And I live in Sweden, and Swedish doctors are EXTREMELY anal when it comes to any "sensitive" substance. I have seen numerous doctors and they have all turned med down because im not below the "MAGIC" 290lvl, like if it would be some huge difference between someone who has 291 and 289 lol.

Anyways, since I got my lvls down to 273 Im close now to finally get it prescribed. All I have to do is pass the last testing session so any help would be great!!!

**sirupate** · 10-06-2011, 05:44 AM

The alcohol intake is the only part of your strategy that would concern me...and that is only if they test for liver enzyme levels. If they test for that, they may be able to tell....but can't you just say that you like to have the occasional drink? If you have the flexibility, have your bloodwork later in the day. Testosterone levels are typically lower then.

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-06-2011, 11:17 AM

How do you know your symptoms are caused by low test? When you say you have "all" the symptoms, what do you mean?

**Vettester** · 10-06-2011, 12:55 PM

I'm not sure how we are supposed to help you with this? The purpose of this forum is to help those who have low "T" understand the variables related to the treatments associated with it, not to devise methods of manipulating tests and doctors. Not looking to lecture you on this, but it's an awkward situation for most of us to respond who just went through the normal steps with getting put on TRT. One of the big problems with TRT is that doctors are all over the place with their opinions on what "score" qualifies a patient for treatment. Some doctors will treat a guy at 320, whereas others say 280 is fine, no therapy is needed. When any member of this forum says their score is 280 and their doctor won't treat them, the unanimous response is, "Go find a new doctor." To each their own, but I don't agree with this strategy you are presenting. These things have a funny way of coming back to haunt a person. As mentioned by JVegas, how do you know that this is all low test related? Granted, 370 isn't topping the charts, but it's not rock bottom either. What indications point to primary or secondary diagnosis? Do you know your free/bio available score?

**THORSZ** · 10-06-2011, 06:38 PM

I wouldn't mess with HRT unless you really need it. After being on for a while there is no turning back because you could shut or slow down your testosterone production. Your body, but I would go see a specialist and see if they can help. As far as alcohol, I've been on several years and test every six months. I have had a few the night before and nobody said anything.

**namvet** · 10-06-2011, 07:04 PM

get a new doc

**Fred40** · 10-06-2011, 11:23 PM

Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive.

**boxingfan30** · 10-06-2011, 11:56 PM

That seems low to me... what did LabCorp just adjust their levels up to?

**mrmagic** · 10-07-2011, 05:49 AM

Thanks for all the replies guys! I'm happy to say that I actually managed to get my doctor to prescribe me 50mg androgel today. Now, it's not much, but it's a start. What will happen is that I have to do another blood test in a week to see if I need a higher dose. And I think that I will need that, because maybe I will forget to apply the gel the day before the test, and maybe I will get drunk before the night I should do the test, and maybe I will have a drink instead of breakfast the hours before the test, in other words... LEGALLY MAXED LEVELS! YEAH BABY!

**zaggahamma** · 10-07-2011, 10:25 AM

i've never been an advocate of tricking/lowering test levels but also got prescribed test even though i was low-normal...so, i'd prolly have to walk in someone else's shoes to see if i'd do the same...esp after knowing how i benefited with test supplementation

op...hope it all works out for you

**JD250** · 10-09-2011, 10:28 AM

I won't point a finger in judgement but I do wish you wouldn't celebrate this behavior on an open forum......if someone copied and pasted your posts it would make the lot of us look bad.....I suppose that could be said of many things in this forum but I cringe a little at stuff like this.....it doesn't help our case in the court of public opinion. I totally see and understand your situation, just remember......loose lips sink ships.

On another note.....I hope it all goes well and you can get your levels where we all know they should be, good luck.

**zaggahamma** · 10-09-2011, 02:04 PM

thats food for thought...is anything that is posted signing your name to anything...i think not...we could all be fantasizing for Christs sake

**JD250** · 10-09-2011, 02:19 PM

Well I DO live in a fantasy land most of the time

I guess what I'm saying is when we openly practice to be decietful with doctors and then celebrate it on a forum where ANYONE can read it, a forum where we share knowledge ideas and support for doing things legally because most of us NEED doctors to help us and have a time finding one.....I can't see where this sort of thread helps our cause. Personally I'm tired of using "RESEARCH" chemicals, I would like to go to a doc and have him trust me and be able to trust him back, this sort of open talk about a questionable practice will have a propensity to cause more damage than good. I'm not saying he should or should not take the action he did just saying it could be done in a more discreet manner.......but what the hell.....this IS a board dedicated to steroids so I suppose we will never be considered a moral pillar of society.

**zaggahamma** · 10-09-2011, 07:48 PM

i know i agree...i'd rather decide to drive at a safe speed, stop when something is coming not when a sign tells me to....i wish doctors got their degree and take their oath seriously and care.....
talk more later....

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-09-2011, 08:46 PM

Coming soon to a television near you:

"This is Tom Blatz, channel 7 news. You many have seen the signs all around town claiming that you no longer need to grow old. That you can have the body and sex drive of an 18 year old at any age, but did you know these signs are promoting steroids ? That's right, the same substances that we have been trying to get out of professional sports, and out of our high schools is available out in the open...in your neighborhood. The legal sale of steroids has increased 2300% in the past five years, and shows no sign of slowing down. Are there really that many people with primary hypogonadism?

Turns out, no. Treating men with low testosterone is the loophole that is allowing all men, of practically any age, to legally by steroids. How is it done? We investigated online forums that openly discuss the techniques used to get these dangerous drugs. There are a growing number of doctors nationally that are willing to exploit this loophole for gain, and the practice has grown so fast that it is starting to gain the attention of authorities. Federal investigators have already shut down many "anti-aging" clinics in Florida that ignore the rules so flagrantly that they don't require you to see a doctor, or even prove that the blood tests sent belong to the person receiving the drugs. In addition, many of these clinics prescribe drugs that are clearly not for true hormone replacement therapy, and in quantities previously only found in seedy locker room deals and from underground drug labs selling online.

Law makers are finally moving to stem the sale of steroids by passing new legislation that will no longer allow treatment of so-called "male menopause" with injectable testosterone , thereby cutting off these dangerous, unhealthy drugs from the people that risk their health to get bigger."

...and we are the "online forums that openly discuss the techniques used to get these dangerous drugs."

Awesome.

**zaggahamma** · 10-09-2011, 09:42 PM

most commercials i see call the condition low T like low T is a diagnosis in its own? hypogonadism i think is what was meant there and of course it will draw skeptics and cynics and pencil neck ppl like reporters that love the old pen mightier than the sword mentality similarly to planet fitness mentality....so are all florida clinics closed....half.....i think many of us DID indeed run into trouble though just picking up/refilling our rx's this last year...

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-09-2011, 10:14 PM

^^^ Fixed.

Sorry for my long post. Just having fun (while expressing concern) as I wait for my chicken to bake and rice to finish.

I fear a backlash is coming, and the more abusers there are, they worse the backlash will be. Sometimes I feel like this industry I depend on has become a joke, like the medical weed clinics in California.

Interesting side note: The feds are now going to close the weed shops by not allowing them business expenses. They expect you to report sales of illegal drugs (it is still illegal at a federal level), but will not allow any expenses (marketing, rent, employees) other than cost of goods. The IRS just audited two years returns from the biggest shop in California, handed them a $2.4 tax bill, and told them they are investigating two more years. Luckily, Test isn't illegal like weed, but it is a highly controlled class III drug, so I am sure they can change make it harder for us to get if they want.

My body (and mind) are truly a mess without the Test. It feels silly to say that because I thought it was voodoo science when I started, but the four-week transformation was amazing. Maybe what it really did was help my back problem. Maybe it was something else. I don't care what it helped, but it helped. I hope it doesn't become hard to get.

**JD250** · 10-09-2011, 11:46 PM

That's exactly what I mean JV. Well said.

**zaggahamma** · 10-10-2011, 07:10 AM

i agree 100%

but for one i cant believe how discussions on open forums are to be considered fact/used by any regulatory system...

if someone bought enough test to sell...BUST THEM...thats one of our nations biggest problem...they think they can prevent crime instead of puninshing crime....

ie: rolling thru a stop sign you get a ticket....who the fvck did i hurt if i go thru a stop sign when nothing is coming....oh...thats right...you could have!!!!!!!!!!! the one dumb fuvck that causes a crash should get punished swift and harsh...victims there has to be victims for a crime...imo

**JD250** · 10-10-2011, 09:38 AM

True JPK but in our case and most unfortunately we are subject to the court of public opinion, like so many other things that the media rapes and abuses just so they have shit to talk about we could very well suffer another blow equal to or greater than what they have already done with baseball........the public will never let facts get in the way of a good story.

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-10-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

but for one i cant believe how discussions on open forums are to be considered fact/used by any regulatory system...

if someone bought enough test to sell...BUST THEM...thats one of our nations biggest problem...they think they can prevent crime instead of puninshing crime....

Totally agree. That is why I think it will come from media first. And if it gains traction with the "anti-steroid " crowd, it can cause a change in legislation. It seemed irrational to have congressional hearings about steroids in baseball , but it happened. My opinion is that TRT will be endangered as soon as it is viewed as steroids . People cheating to get access to legal scrips is they thing that will make that happen. Then, the public will decide that nobody actually needs it...that is all just a scam.

The government has come up with many new controls for prescription pain killers and even Nyquil because of abuse. They cannot actually take pain killers off the market because they are needed...but most people aren't convinced that what we do is really needed.

**bigboy67** · 10-10-2011, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by JD250

True JPK but in our case and most unfortunately we are subject to the court of public opinion, like so many other things that the media rapes and abuses just so they have shit to talk about we could very well suffer another blow equal to or greater than what they have already done with baseball........the public will never let facts get in the way of a good story.

x2

and P.S. please don't forget that the reason anabolic steroids are controlled substances in the first place is due purely to propaganda. There is ZERO science backing illegality of anabolic steroids , but when the right people get behind the wrong projects, it can be a real shit show

Don't assume that reason and logic will trump hysteria, you have to remember that in most people's eyes TRT really IS legal steroid use , steroids fall under the "war on drugs", and a LOT of people make a LOT of money fighting the war on drugs

We have to really stay wayyyyyy above suspicion or we WILL get swept in with hardcore steroid abusers, thats just a fact