New Lab Results.... Scary Weird Results... Need Advice

**bowers32** · 10-24-2011, 10:32 AM

I have been reading on this Board for several years now and have a ton of respect of the knowlegge base that exists here.

I have just gotten my labs back after 12 weeks starting back on a TRT protocol and some results are very concerning to me and I would welcome some feedback.

A little background:

I am 50 years old
5”9, 220 lb, 22% bf

Started a TRT protocol last year around March because my test levels had dropped into the low 300’s. Stayed on for about 6 weeks, but had some bad side affects… no sleep, headaches, etc…

So stopped until this past June and started back on a very conservative protocol: 100 test cyp every 5 days, 250iu HCG and anti-E pill, the day after the test shot.

Also, because of high BF at the start and a desire to improve body compensation, I also started taking anavar , for 6 weeks.

I ended the anavar about a month ago (the results were fantastic.. dropped 35 lb and bf down 6%)

I did not experience the side affects this time on TRT as I did the first time.

So after about 10 weeks on this TRT the results are as follows…. Late June is when I took the first lab work before I started back. What concerns me is the test level, the estrogen levels and the PSA.

IGF-1 (94-252)

June, 2011 = 111
October, 2011 = 222

Estrogen (7.6 – 42.6)

June, 2011 = 70
October 2011 = 92

Estradiol, Sensitive (3-70)

June 2011 = 11
October 2011 = 6

Testosterone (200-800)

June 2011 = 596
October 2011 = 2096

SHBG

June 2011 = 42.6
October 2011 = 19.9

Total Cholesterol (100-200)

June 2011 = 233
October 2011 = 209

Triglycerides (0-149)

June 2011 = 208
October 2011 = 119

HDL (good)Cholesterol (39 or higher)

June 2011 = 39
October 2011 = 35

VLDL Cholesterol (5-40)

June 2011 = 42
October 2011 = 24

LDL (bad)Cholesterol (0-99)

June 2011 = 152
October 2011 = 150

PSA (0-4)

June 2011 = 2.2
October 2011 = 7.3

**bowers32** · 10-24-2011, 10:37 AM

Oh and let me add this information. When I first started TRT last year in March, my protocol was higher than it is now. Last year I was taking 200 test cyp and more frequent HCG ... but the highest my test levels got last year was in the 800's. So not sure how being on a more conservative protocol (100 test cyp and less HCG) shot my test levels over 2000.

Also, I had blood drawn2 days after a test shot, which meand is was a few days before another one was scheduled.

Thanks.

**NOSUPERMODEL** · 10-24-2011, 10:42 AM

Wow your test levels at 2000. I am suprised your doc will keep you on TRT with the levels being that high. My doc said that insurance companies start getting suspicious when it starts getting over 1000.

**APIs** · 10-24-2011, 10:56 AM

That's pretty high Test for only 100 mgs e5d. Hell, that's high for twice the dose. How close was your BW to the last injection of 100 mgs? You didnt mention your actual AI med & dosage? If it's Anastrazole, you should discuss bumping it up to at least .5 mgs, 2 to 3 times a week at those E2 levels. How's your diet honestly, the LDL & HDL issues can all be related to this. You may need some D supplementation...

**lvs** · 10-24-2011, 11:07 AM

Those PSA numbers would the scare the hell out of me. You are 50, it is time for colonoscopy.

**bass** · 10-24-2011, 11:23 AM

thats amazing how your test shot up with 1/2 the dose! your cholesterol went bad due to anavar but that can be easily fixed with milk thistle or injectable L-Glutathione. the only thing i would be concerned about is your PSA, some times the PSA alone don't mean anything but an alarm, you need to do more tests to see whats going on, but some of the elevation could be due to high E2! also if has sex within 24 hours before the test it will elevate PSA levels. WOW did i read this correctly, you went from 22% BF down to 6%?! what was your daily anavar dose?

**bass** · 10-24-2011, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by lvs

Those PSA numbers would the scare the hell out of me. You are 50, it is time for colonoscopy.

although its a good idea but what does colonoscopy have to do with prostate? all is needed is a finger!

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 10-24-2011, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by bass

thats amazing how your test shot up with 1/2 the dose! your cholesterol went bad due to anavar but that can be easily fixed with milk thistle or injectable L-Glutathione. the only thing i would be concerned about is your PSA, some times the PSA alone don't mean anything but an alarm, you need to do more tests to see whats going on, but some of the elevation could be due to high E2! also if has sex within 24 hours before the test it will elevate PSA levels. WOW did i read this correctly, you went from 22% BF down to 6%?! what was your daily anavar dose?

Injectable glutathione lowers cholesterol? Sweet! And here I thought it would only help my liver and make me look like casper.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-24-2011, 01:03 PM

At this juncture Bio Available or Percent Free is what you want. While your overall test levels are high, it's not as telling as the two other panels.

**bass** · 10-24-2011, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk

Injectable glutathione lowers cholesterol? Sweet! And here I thought it would only help my liver and make me look like casper.

i don't know about lowering cholesterol, but it will aid the liver. i know my cholesterol was good while i was on Glutathione, so you never know!

**bowers32** · 10-24-2011, 02:39 PM

Let me answer a few question:

How close was your BW to the last injection of 100 mgs? ... I do an injection every 5 days.. so the labs were taken in middle of the 5 days

WOW did i read this correctly, you went from 22% BF down to 6%?! No... I was probably close to 30% and am now around 22%.. I took 40mg a day of anavar

I took UDCA for the liver while I was on the anavar. My liver panels were both good (AST and ALT). My PSA jumped last time I did anavar for a few weeks last year.. though not nearly this high. I took saw palmetto for about a month and it got back down in normal range. But I am seeing some things that say that very high levels of test can cause an enlarged prostate.

I get why the estrogen is high... I just have no idea what could be pushing the test that high on such a low dose... any chance it is a mistake by the labs?

The good news, for what it is worth, my body composition has never been better.... and I am not getting things like acne or anything like that. I literally do not feel any different then when my levels were 500.

I have had a bad case of ED... but obviously the high estrogen is causing that so I will start increasing the Anastrazole right away.

Thanks for the input guys and I welcome all you can give me. I have an appt with the TRT clinic on Monday to discuss with them...but wanted input from this Board as well.

**bass** · 10-24-2011, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by bowers32

Let me answer a few question:

WOW did i read this correctly, you went from 22% BF down to 6%?! No... I was probably close to 30% and am now around 22%.. I took 40mg a day of anavar

well.

ok, now that makes more sense! sorry for misreading your original post! 6% is still allot of fat burnt, good job!

**steroid.com 1** · 10-24-2011, 03:15 PM

As mentioned; get Bio Available and/or Percent Free panels...this is what you want to see now.

**bowers32** · 10-24-2011, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

As mentioned; get Bio Available and/or Percent Free panels...this is what you want to see now.

Must admit.. not familiar with either... are these things I should get tested?

**lvs** · 10-24-2011, 04:37 PM

this is true. just trying to make a point at 50, it should be checked.

Originally Posted by bass

although its a good idea but what does colonoscopy have to do with prostate? all is needed is a finger!

**zaggahamma** · 10-24-2011, 06:01 PM

what did the doctor say/plan/advise

obviously your gonna want to check the prostate

i really dont see anything that needs addressing other than that....take a little less of your AI ...which r u using btw?

**steroid.com 1** · 10-24-2011, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by bowers32

Must admit.. not familiar with either... are these things I should get tested?

These two panels will tell you how much of your test is available to be used by the androgen/sex receptors throughout your body. These are far more critical now then just Total Test.

Research...Google is your friend

**Shol'va** · 10-24-2011, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by bass

although its a good idea but what does colonoscopy have to do with prostate? all is needed is a finger!

You know..no I'm not going there..

**steroid.com 1** · 10-24-2011, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

You know..no I'm not going there..

Now that's some funny shit...no pun intended

**bass** · 10-24-2011, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Shol'va

You know..no I'm not going there..

LOL! i knew you would like that! but don't get any ideas!

**bowers32** · 10-25-2011, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

These two panels will tell you how much of your test is available to be used by the androgen/sex receptors throughout your body. These are far more critical now then just Total Test.

Research...Google is your friend

Thanks... trying to figure out what exactly what to order on the lab work (I do it online) to get these two

**bowers32** · 10-25-2011, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

what did the doctor say/plan/advise

obviously your gonna want to check the prostate

i really dont see anything that needs addressing other than that....take a little less of your AI ...which r u using btw?

Good to chat with you again jpkman, it has been a while. I have an appt with the clinic folks on Monday. I have done some research and found that extremely high test, which I now have can cause the prostate to swell and high estrogen, which I have, can also affect PSA level

For the life of me I jsut can't figure out how my test levels went through the roof, when I am taking only 100mg test cyp every 5 days... when last year I was taking 200mg test cyp and it never got over 800. I do know why the estrogen jumped 20 points... due to the high test obviously. So more anti-E is in order for sure.

Of course my body composition is as good as it has ever been... I guess with that level of test it should be.. lol...but walking around with a test level of over 2000 just isn't good for any reason. Like I said I also ran about 8 weeks of 40mg of anavar and it was awesome!!! I took some UDCA to protect the liver and I was pleased that my AST and ALT levels were as good as they have been in a while, which is probablyh also due to the loss of bodyfat. My lipids are still not quite were they need to be, but they got better. So there were some positives. But need to get both the estrogen and test down to therapy levels. As much as I am really enjoying this new body composition, I do not want to be on a "cycle".

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

**kelkel** · 10-25-2011, 07:18 AM

Sholva I knew you'd take a "poke" at this one. Ha! For an ejaculation to bump up his psa that high it would have had to have been the load of a lifetime, jeez.

Bowers go to www.allthingsmale.com and review the lab work he recommends....

**bowers32** · 10-25-2011, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Sholva I knew you'd take a "poke" at this one. Ha! For an ejaculation to bump up his psa that high it would have had to have been the load of a lifetime, jeez.

Bowers go to www.allthingsmale.com and review the lab work he recommends....

Load of a lifetime... that would be awesome of course... ha ha... but no, I knew to avoid ejaculation prior to the test

**zaggahamma** · 10-25-2011, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by bowers32

Good to chat with you again jpkman, it has been a while. I have an appt with the clinic folks on Monday. I have done some research and found that extremely high test, which I now have can cause the prostate to swell and high estrogen, which I have, can also affect PSA level

For the life of me I jsut can't figure out how my test levels went through the roof, when I am taking only 100mg test cyp every 5 days... when last year I was taking 200mg test cyp and it never got over 800. I do know why the estrogen jumped 20 points... due to the high test obviously. So more anti-E is in order for sure.

Of course my body composition is as good as it has ever been... I guess with that level of test it should be.. lol...but walking around with a test level of over 2000 just isn't good for any reason. Like I said I also ran about 8 weeks of 40mg of anavar and it was awesome!!! I took some UDCA to protect the liver and I was pleased that my AST and ALT levels were as good as they have been in a while, which is probablyh also due to the loss of bodyfat. My lipids are still not quite were they need to be, but they got better. So there were some positives. But need to get both the estrogen and test down to therapy levels. As much as I am really enjoying this new body composition, I do not want to be on a "cycle".

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

yes, i recognized your screen name and thought it had been a while...congrats on the rippedness and we're all in your corner while you figure out these numbers and get your peace of mind as well

**bowers32** · 10-25-2011, 12:34 PM

ok guys.. took the good advice here and went today and got bloodwork done so Bio Available and/or Percent Free panels could be checked... will report back in a couple days.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-25-2011, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by bowers32

ok guys.. took the good advice here and went today and got bloodwork done so Bio Available and/or Percent Free panels could be checked... will report back in a couple days.

Great bowers! This will give you a clear picture of what is biologically available for your body to use and at this juncture is more important then Total T.

Post the assays with ranges when you get them and the guys will chime in.

**bowers32** · 10-31-2011, 07:56 AM

Ok guys.... got the two tests that were recommended. Just as a reminder from my original post. I took labs after about 8 weeks or so starting back on a TRT protocol. I was on 100 test cyp every 5 days and 250iu HCG the day after. My total test was over 2000!!!

A year ago when I started TRT (before stopping) I was on 200 test cyp once a week and my test never got over 800.

The two tests you guys recommended are below.. keep in mind that these were taken 10 days after my last test injections... the original labs in my original post were 4 days after my last injection shot. Once I got the level of 2000 I stopped the test... so haven't had another one... luckily I feel fine, no crashing... but know if I decide to stop for good need to go on PCT

Here are the results

total test = 1375 (down from the 2000 5 days prior)
Free test = 41.80
%Free +Weekly bound = 58.2
F+W Bound = 806

These are all extremely high..... so welcome any thoughts or suggestions

**zaggahamma** · 10-31-2011, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by bowers32

Ok guys.... got the two tests that were recommended. Just as a reminder from my original post. I took labs after about 8 weeks or so starting back on a TRT protocol. I was on 100 test cyp every 5 days and 250iu HCG the day after. My total test was over 2000!!!

A year ago when I started TRT (before stopping) I was on 200 test cyp once a week and my test never got over 800.

The two tests you guys recommended are below.. keep in mind that these were taken 10 days after my last test injections... the original labs in my original post were 4 days after my last injection shot. Once I got the level of 2000 I stopped the test... so haven't had another one... luckily I feel fine, no crashing... but know if I decide to stop for good need to go on PCT

Here are the results

total test = 1375 (down from the 2000 5 days prior)
Free test = 41.80
%Free +Weekly bound = 58.2
F+W Bound = 806

These are all extremely high..... so welcome any thoughts or suggestions

i bolded what stood out in your post

your op was one week ago...the only problems were no sleep and headaches? oh, and worried about high levels?

well, do u feel fine or not? and the levels are down some...how much, we dont know cuz u took blood on a different day in relation to injection day?

answer bold first

hope all is well

jpk

**bowers32** · 10-31-2011, 09:40 AM

well the total test dropped close to 700 points in the five days between tests....

and yes... I feel fine... still trying to get a hold of doc at trt clinic on his take... I know I don't need to stop TRT cold turkey... question is do I stop... or just cut back on test to say 50mg every 5 days.. wait 30 days and see what that does.

**bass** · 10-31-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by bowers32

well the total test dropped close to 700 points in the five days between tests....

and yes... I feel fine... still trying to get a hold of doc at trt clinic on his take... I know I don't need to stop TRT cold turkey... question is do I stop... or just cut back on test to say 50mg every 5 days.. wait 30 days and see what that does.

you already know you can't stop so yes continue at lower dose, 50mgs e5d sounds like a good start.

**zaggahamma** · 10-31-2011, 03:57 PM

glad those symptoms went away

so you gonna drop a little more test...maybe 75mg e5days....60mg?

**bowers32** · 11-04-2011, 01:20 PM

Yes I am going to go down to 50mg every 5 days... up the anti-E to three times a week and hit the saw palmeto hard and see if I can get my test in a better range, my estrogen lower and my PSA back down... will do labs again in 30 days

**zaggahamma** · 11-05-2011, 03:23 AM

bowers

confirm please....

levels at 1375 total and 41 free on 100mg e5d?? (FEELING FINE)

and you are going to cut in HALF?

**bowers32** · 11-10-2011, 10:31 AM

Well the levels at 1375 for total test was only after stopping test injections for about a week when i got the initial levels of over 2000... so it was on it's way down.

I have been told that as long as you feel fine don't worry about it. But, in doing some research, extremly high levels of test, which I assume over 2000 is, can cause some other issues.. for instance it coule possibly affect the PSA readings.... and as you see from my original post, my PSA readings went way up. So I am just not cofortable with a level that high... frankly if it stayed somewhere around 1000-1300 and I felt fine and everything else was good in my labs, I would n't worry about it cause I know everyone reacts differently to the injections.

But I am just not comfortable with a total test level being that high.