whats the age you started trt and your age now

**flatscat** · 11-18-2011, 04:54 PM

Guys - really well thought out questions and answers. I have opinions on these subjects like many others here. But can we please get out of this thread and start new topic specific threads so as to spread the wealth to others interested in those subjects?,,

**bass** · 11-18-2011, 05:00 PM

good idea, but it will be hard to do unless Dr. magic starts the thread himself!

**flatscat** · 11-18-2011, 05:04 PM

Nope, he can reply to any thread he chooses too.

**bass** · 11-18-2011, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Nope, he can reply to any thread he chooses too.

hmmm! isn't that what he did here?!

**steroid.com 1** · 11-18-2011, 05:20 PM

Flats is correct. I try so hard not to break protocol here...but it's just so fantastic and compelling to have a Physician of DrMagic engage in discussion with us.

But I will abide.

bass, this thread was started be vere76 just asking at what age we all started TRT. The discussion with the Doc has gotten pretty far off that track...LOL.

**Drmagic** · 11-18-2011, 05:28 PM

GD, you're right there is a lot of variability, unfortunately, like a lot of medicine it is because doctors tend to practice the way they are taught and become complacent because of busy scehdules etc. You're confusion is shared, even by those of us doing it for a living, people want to make medicine black and white (especially attorneys - one of which I married) but there is a lot of gray area - that's where the art comes in. I am not certain that my way is right, truth is there are probabl but how I practice is a result of how I was taught, what I have learned on my own and what I have observed over time in my own patients. I also treat my patients how I would treat myself - this changes over time as well. Like I said, it is an ongoing experiment, it will be interesting to see how it evolves over time, stem cells and HGH will make our lives markedly different than our parents. Guess we should move on to another thread? I've enjoyed the conversation.

**flatscat** · 11-18-2011, 05:28 PM

Bass. Brother.

I am trying to get the good doc to share his wealth of knowledge in different threads. My point was he can post in any thread he wishes to, but his reponses would be best utilized if they were in a topic specific thread.

Any clearer now?

**Brohim** · 11-18-2011, 07:24 PM

Doc if you can it would be great if you could measure your igf-1 levels on and off the peptides?

Also do you find your patients have increased igf-1 levels by going on trt? I was reviewing another member's bloodwork and his igf-1 levels jumped by 67% by going on trt.

**bass** · 11-18-2011, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Bass. Brother.

I am trying to get the good doc to share his wealth of knowledge in different threads. My point was he can post in any thread he wishes to, but his reponses would be best utilized if they were in a topic specific thread.

Any clearer now?

10/4

**Drmagic** · 11-18-2011, 09:19 PM

Brohim, I do see IGF1 levels jump 100 points or more some times (men and women), generally I do see an increase but that lab value is a moving target with a lot of variables influencing it. Mine jumped 100 points when I first started - an increase of about 30 % and it has held steady over 2 years, didn't check before starting the peptides, will try to recheck again before restarting and again after another couple months.

**dec11** · 11-18-2011, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Drmagic

I'm also a physician who treats over 300 men with TRT. My oldest in in his 70s and has been treated for over 10 years. I have 10 - 20 who are under 35, many of which are shift workers - fire fighters, ER employees etc who are almost always deficient. Western medicine is so far behind in this field it is sad - a lot of these men see their doctors who refuse to treat them if they are in "normal," range even though they are in the bottom 10% of normal at 35 years of age and have every symptom in the book of low testosterone. Or they are treated with useless gels or shots every 2 - 3 weeks which may be worse than not treating at all becasue of the roller coaster of hormones. I see more and more younger men with lower levels, not sure why but my theory is that we drive ourselves so hard in today's culture, less sleep, poor diet, long work hours, high stress all of which decrease production. I monitor many labs on my patients and almost always see reduction in cholesterol, body fat, blood pressure and CRP levels. I think we will see a huge long term improvement in health and longevity in men who are treated over time. Research is pretty clear that lower levels of testosterone over time contributes to higher levels of diabetes, heart disease, and certain cancers. Just make sure you are keeping estrogen in check.

why would this be pronounced in this population? stress?

**Fred40** · 11-22-2011, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by mauler

How many cycles did you guys do before you needed hrt?

Originally Posted by funkymonk

0

Same......never did one. I was diagnosed low at age 44 but I can assure you it was low for years.

I'm actually starting to wonder if I ever had upper range levels.....even in my late teens early twenties. I'm making faster strength gains now (on 100mg/week) then I did when I was 19 training naturally.

**Bigfoot66** · 11-23-2011, 09:49 PM

Fred..I'm a year older than u and think the same. I am almost certain, based on the positive results of TRT, Arimidex , and DHEA that I was always in the tank. I was on Accutane in the test group in 1981 and took a high dose for one entire year. I was only 14. I think it screwed me up ANC we didn't know better.

Originally Posted by Fred40

Same......never did one. I was diagnosed low at age 44 but I can assure you it was low for years.

I'm actually starting to wonder if I ever had upper range levels.....even in my late teens early twenties. I'm making faster strength gains now (on 100mg/week) then I did when I was 19 training naturally.