HCG Protocols

**Drmagic** · 11-19-2011, 08:53 AM

Hello all, I'm new to the forum, have been having some interesting conversations on some other threads. I'm a physician specializing in anti-aging and came to this forum to learn a little more about what is being done in the real world. I treat over 300 male patients with TRT and have protocols I have become comfortable with and what I do myself and am interested to hear how the members on this board are treated or doing on their own, specifically for this thread - HCG doses and frequency. I was initially given (before I started practicing myself) 1000 IU twice weekly on days 2 and 4 after my test injection which is once per week. I found this to be to much for me so knocked it down to 500 IU. After talking with other docs and going through additional training I switched my protocol to 250-500 iu on days 5 and 6 (test shot on day 7). I've heard in lectures that there is never any reason to give more than 250 IU at a time which I don't believe and I know there are other protocols using 1000IU once weekly. Just curious to see what you guys have been prescribed. Thanks.

**flatscat** · 11-19-2011, 08:58 AM

I am prescribed 1000 IU/week, but inj 250/eod or at least twice a week - seems to work fine for me at least as far as keeping atrophy away -

**warchild** · 11-19-2011, 09:00 AM

1250ius 2 times a week so 25000ius. every 3-4 months.

**lvs** · 11-19-2011, 10:22 AM

250iu eod.

**kelkel** · 11-19-2011, 11:03 AM

250iu every 3 days. Crisler protocol for gel. Seems great.

**Mr Bill** · 11-19-2011, 11:10 AM

250iu day 5 & 6 T shot on day 7

**fit2bOld** · 11-19-2011, 11:32 AM

prescribed 500iu 3x week but only doing 2x week the boys don't seem to notice a difference. T injection is also 2x a week

**steroid.com 1** · 11-19-2011, 03:54 PM

There seems to be many variants for hCG protocols and for some important reasons:

1. Diagnosis: Is the man Primary or Secondary Hypogonadal (this is a big one make no mistake)
2. Level of Total and Bio Available (is he still producing?)
3. Type of Testosterone repla***ent: Cream, Gel, Injections
4. Dosage amount of Testosterone
5. Age of the male
6. General overall health of the male

Keeping the testicles healthy and functioning is so important not just that it prevents testicular atrophy (remember exogenous Testosterone causes a self induced organ shutdown - namely the testes) but to make sure they produce Pregnenolone with is needed for all three pathways not just the androgen pathway. It help backfill and keep the man functioning like a man.

Without hCG their testicles will grow smaller and smaller and hurt continuously along the way all while thier sack will pull up tight against the body and look like my 6 year old.

Many men who add in hCG after a start of a TRT protocol claim of better sense of well being and overall health suggesting the hCG produces something along the pathways that causes a neuro effect.

I've seen all sorts of hCG protocols and really don't know if one has been proven to be better then another. Crisler like two and one day before Test injections and no more then 350 iu per injection. Remember, high doses of hCG (>500 iu/day) can cause an increase in intratesticular E2 which an AI is largely ineffective in controling so no dosage in a single day over 500 iu. Also, doses over 500 iu a day can desensitize the lydig cells which is a situation no man wants.

Personally, I am believer in smaller doses more frequently - mimic the natural patterns (the best we can) of the endocrine system. I inject 250 iu EOD and have had no issues whatsoever. Better would be ED of 125 and I seriously thought about it but it's too much pinning so EOD works fine. Keep everything in balance, no big spike and drops and the body best responds to the regularity accordingly.

Just my $0.02.

gd

**bass** · 11-19-2011, 04:14 PM

i was prescribed 500iu day 5 and 500iu day 6, day 7 is my test injection. but took GDevine's advice and went more frequent with smaller doses, i tried 250 eod but it was hard to follow, so i switched to 300 iu Monday morning, Wednesday evening and Saturday morning. my boys seem to respond much better, meaning they are fuller and harder, where at 500iu twice a week they still felt soft and lifeless but much better that without hCG ! I also switched to SQ test injections and lowered my dose from 200 mgs ew to 60 mgs twice a week. i am doing blood work this Wednesday to see how its all working. besides my joints pains so far i feel great !

**steroid.com 1** · 11-19-2011, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by bass

i was prescribed 500iu day 5 and 500iu day 6, day 7 is my test injection. but took GDevine's advice and went more frequent with smaller doses, i tried 250 eod but it was hard to follow, so i switched to 300 iu Monday morning, Wednesday evening and Saturday morning. my boys seem to respond much better, meaning they are fuller and harder, where at 500iu twice a week they still felt soft and lifeless but much better that without hCG! I also switched to SQ test injections and lowered my dose from 200 mgs ew to 60 mgs twice a week. i am doing blood work this Wednesday to see how its all working. besides my joints pains so far i feel great !

^^^ Real nice protocol

**kelkel** · 11-19-2011, 04:26 PM

Your .02 is always worth more than that GD!

**steroid.com 1** · 11-19-2011, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

^^^ Real nice protocol

...and you got joint pain bass because you're lifting too damn heavy for crying out loud

**steroid.com 1** · 11-19-2011, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Your .02 is always worth more than that GD!

Muchos gracias mi hermano

**bass** · 11-19-2011, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

...and you got joint pain bass because you're lifting too damn heavy for crying out loud

yea i keep forgetting I'm 51!

**Bill_boy2005** · 11-19-2011, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Drmagic

Hello all, I'm new to the forum, have been having some interesting conversations on some other threads. I'm a physician specializing in anti-aging and came to this forum to learn a little more about what is being done in the real world. I treat over 300 male patients with TRT and have protocols I have become comfortable with and what I do myself and am interested to hear how the members on this board are treated or doing on their own, specifically for this thread - HCG doses and frequency. I was initially given (before I started practicing myself) 1000 IU twice weekly on days 2 and 4 after my test injection which is once per week. I found this to be to much for me so knocked it down to 500 IU. After talking with other docs and going through additional training I switched my protocol to 250-500 iu on days 5 and 6 (test shot on day 7). I've heard in lectures that there is never any reason to give more than 250 IU at a time which I don't believe and I know there are other protocols using 1000IU once weekly. Just curious to see what you guys have been prescribed. Thanks.

I think its pretty awesome that you are in here seeing what works for people as opposed to hanging a standard protocol around everyones neck like its a one size fits all system.

**JohnnyVegas** · 11-19-2011, 09:14 PM

400iu twice a week for me. My testicles seem the same as when I started TRT, so I guess it is working?

**dfwo** · 11-20-2011, 12:17 AM

I've spoken to a couple of docs and two compounding pharmacies this week and none of them had heard of HCG as a part of TRT

**Vettester** · 11-20-2011, 12:42 AM

300iu x 3/wk.

**Drmagic** · 11-20-2011, 07:25 AM

Hey bass, how long have you been doing sub q and do you feel any different?

**Drmagic** · 11-20-2011, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

There seems to be many variants for hCG protocols and for some important reasons:

1. Diagnosis: Is the man Primary or Secondary Hypogonadal (this is a big one make no mistake)
2. Level of Total and Bio Available (is he still producing?)
3. Type of Testosterone repla***ent: Cream, Gel, Injections
4. Dosage amount of Testosterone
5. Age of the male
6. General overall health of the male

Keeping the testicles healthy and functioning is so important not just that it prevents testicular atrophy (remember exogenous Testosterone causes a self induced organ shutdown - namely the testes) but to make sure they produce Pregnenolone with is needed for all three pathways not just the androgen pathway. It help backfill and keep the man functioning like a man.

Without hCG their testicles will grow smaller and smaller and hurt continuously along the way all while thier sack will pull up tight against the body and look like my 6 year old.

Many men who add in hCG after a start of a TRT protocol claim of better sense of well being and overall health suggesting the hCG produces something along the pathways that causes a neuro effect.

I've seen all sorts of hCG protocols and really don't know if one has been proven to be better then another. Crisler like two and one day before Test injections and no more then 350 iu per injection. Remember, high doses of hCG (>500 iu/day) can cause an increase in intratesticular E2 which an AI is largely ineffective in controling so no dosage in a single day over 500 iu. Also, doses over 500 iu a day can desensitize the lydig cells which is a situation no man wants.

Personally, I am believer in smaller doses more frequently - mimic the natural patterns (the best we can) of the endocrine system. I inject 250 iu EOD and have had no issues whatsoever. Better would be ED of 125 and I seriously thought about it but it's too much pinning so EOD works fine. Keep everything in balance, no big spike and drops and the body best responds to the regularity accordingly.

Just my $0.02.

gd

Thans for all of the responses, I'll have to read a little more into the pregnanolone, honestly had not heard that connection before. pregnanolone and DHEA are tough ones, pregnanolone particulalry because of the number of pathways it can go down, in practice I see a lot of variability in what it can do for patients but overall don't see a lot of response to it, like DHEA the body tends to shunt these prohormones into whatever pathway you need and like testsosterone some people preferentially shunt in a certain direction based on who knows how many variable including diet, exercise, body fat %, and genetics. These other effects of HCG though probably have something to do with how much better men feel when they are on HCG vs off, present company included. I'ts not just a test thing, otherwise we would be able to just inject more test and be done with it. I do believe the smaller more frequent doses are probably the way to go Crisler seems to by pretty standard in talking to other practitionors. I have tried every few days vs day 5 and 6 of a cycle and I feel better with that protocol. I tell my patients now to play with the timing and find what works for them, like most on this forum, my patients are pretty knowledgable and I can trust them to find their own way as I oversee them.

**steroid.com 1** · 11-20-2011, 09:48 AM

Doc, it' Physicians like you with that open view with men that can change our lives for the better. My Doc is the same way and it has been a great journey.

Thanks man!

gd

**zaggahamma** · 11-20-2011, 11:41 AM

tampa is but an hour drive for me

**bass** · 11-20-2011, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Drmagic

Hey bass, how long have you been doing sub q and do you feel any different?

its been about 4 weeks or so and i feel more normal than when i was on 200mgs doing IM injections, not bloated, lightheaded and such. i am on anavar now and i know thats affecting me in a negative way, but its doing wonders for my strength and my physique! still though besides my joint pains i feel great! also like to mention, my sex drive has suffered (not as horny when i was on 200) a little, but erections and performance are still great!

**Drmagic** · 11-20-2011, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by bass

its been about 4 weeks or so and i feel more normal than when i was on 200mgs doing IM injections, not bloated, lightheaded and such. i am on anavar now and i know thats affecting me in a negative way, but its doing wonders for my strength and my physique! still though besides my joint pains i feel great! also like to mention, my sex drive has suffered (not as horny when i was on 200) a little, but erections and performance are still great!

Using anavar instead of cyp? or in addition to? I see a lot of forum members posting abuot these additional types of steroids while they are on traditional TRT - a little out of my realm but that is one of the reasons I came to this site to learn more about those other types.

**BigBadWolf** · 11-20-2011, 05:55 PM

In addition to

**fit2bOld** · 11-20-2011, 06:35 PM

Great info GD & DR M. I'm going to switch from 500iu 2x wk to 250eod to see what the smaller more frequent dose does for the boys and how i feel overall

**innerg** · 11-21-2011, 01:41 AM

Drmagic-
I realize this may be the wrong way to ask this breaking up the flow of this thread. I just am not abel to PM you.

But can you bring me on as a client? ? If so how can i reach you? can you PM me?

**Drmagic** · 11-21-2011, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Honkeykong

In addition to

How much cyp are you still taking? does it leave a lump in that sub q space for very long?

**Drmagic** · 11-21-2011, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by innerg

Drmagic-
I realize this may be the wrong way to ask this breaking up the flow of this thread. I just am not abel to PM you.

But can you bring me on as a client? ? If so how can i reach you? can you PM me?

Let me figure out how to PM you - I'm not sure if I am able to yet, new to this site so not quite sure how things work.

**BigBadWolf** · 11-21-2011, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Drmagic

Let me figure out how to PM you - I'm not sure if I am able to yet, new to this site so not quite sure how things work.

You need 50 post you have 33.

**zaggahamma** · 11-21-2011, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Honkeykong

You need 50 post you have 33.

correct

dr. M do you play golf?

**SEOINAGE** · 11-21-2011, 08:19 AM

and he only has 11 and I believe you need 50 to even receive a pm.

I hope my doctor will prescribe HCG , last I talked to him he didn't think insurance would cover it, and it sounded like he was only going to do it when we wanted to have another kid. I am not sure what he is going to prescribe me anyways, been waiting and waiting, have high thyroid antibodies, so going to be on all kinds of stuff. I am hoping though with learning what I can hear I will know what questions to ask him, what importance to put on certain protocols, and really convince him if i need something. Curious because another thread talks about dhea and pregnelone creams, if HCG helps so you produce your own pregnelone, does that mean you don't need the cream, or if you use the cream can you get by without HCG?

**zaggahamma** · 11-21-2011, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

and he only has 11 and I believe you need 50 to even receive a pm.

I hope my doctor will prescribe HCG , last I talked to him he didn't think insurance would cover it, and it sounded like he was only going to do it when we wanted to have another kid. I am not sure what he is going to prescribe me anyways, been waiting and waiting, have high thyroid antibodies, so going to be on all kinds of stuff. I am hoping though with learning what I can hear I will know what questions to ask him, what importance to put on certain protocols, and really convince him if i need something. Curious because another thread talks about dhea and pregnelone creams, if HCG helps so you produce your own pregnelone, does that mean you don't need the cream, or if you use the cream can you get by without HCG?

i wondered similarly as i wanted to remain infertile (or as much as possible) by using it all but not the hcg since the hcg is supposed to help with the fertility element

**SEOINAGE** · 11-21-2011, 08:47 AM

as far as what i read concerning that, and male hormonal birth control, it was a combination of test and some progestogen, and it sounded effective and reversible from the studies I read.

**zaggahamma** · 11-21-2011, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

as far as what i read concerning that, and male hormonal birth control, it was a combination of test and some progestogen, and it sounded effective and reversible from the studies I read.

well i hope its reversible my young wife might have starting considering a bambino i been on trt for SIX years with no hcg

**APIs** · 11-21-2011, 09:58 AM

2 x 250 IUs per week. Day before & day of IM Test Cyp injection.

**Drmagic** · 11-21-2011, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by innerg

Drmagic-
I realize this may be the wrong way to ask this breaking up the flow of this thread. I just am not abel to PM you.

But can you bring me on as a client? ? If so how can i reach you? can you PM me?

innerg, give Tracy my office manager a call 813 384 3107, she will take care of you. I'll let her now you might be calling.

**bass** · 11-21-2011, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Drmagic

Using anavar instead of cyp? or in addition to? I see a lot of forum members posting abuot these additional types of steroids while they are on traditional TRT - a little out of my realm but that is one of the reasons I came to this site to learn more about those other types.

yes like Honkey said, in addition to cyp. at first it left a lump and got hard and sore for few days, maybe 5 days or so, but after that the lump got smaller and lasted a day or, now almost no lumps. i been massaging the area for at least one minute, i am sure that helped.