First post and new to TRT!

**Brickhouse** · 12-27-2011, 02:52 AM

In need of some help here guys!!

I am 37 and have been bodybuilding for the last 18 years. Over the past few years I have found myself getting tired, irritable, memory loss, lack of sex drive. I got my blood works done for Testosterone and they came back at 10.7. The lowest for my age is 9.8 and the highest being 29.9 so I am low in Test. Trouble is I am in the UK and as we have the NHS I still fall into the 'safe' guidelines so the Dr cant do anything for me. So I have got some Clomid and HCG but not started yet as thought I better check if there is anything else I need and how long and what dose I should do?

I am 6ft, 217lbs if this may help dose?

Also dose low Test cause anxiety as I have been feeling horrid with anxiety.....So much the Dr has put me on Valium and Citalopram but they have not really helped?

Thanks in advance for any help.

**lovbyts** · 12-27-2011, 07:25 AM

A lot of people have good results with using HCG alone I have read. It all depends on your goals. If getting back to normal is all then it may be enough. Diet change also helps but since you have been BB for a long time you should know this. You can also request another test. Results are different from day to day and time of day so??? I know in the UK you have to wait a long time for doctor visits. I'm sure some fellow UK members will be along to help you out soon.

**Brickhouse** · 12-27-2011, 09:30 AM

Thanks lovbyts.

My levels were checked first thing in the morning. I have found my confidence to be very low as well although I put on a front so many think I am a confident person.

As for HCG .....I have read 250iu per shot twice a week.....Would this sound ok?

**lovbyts** · 12-27-2011, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Brickhouse

Thanks lovbyts.

My levels were checked first thing in the morning. I have found my confidence to be very low as well although I put on a front so many think I am a confident person.

As for HCG .....I have read 250iu per shot twice a week.....Would this sound ok?

That's what I have read also.

**Vettester** · 12-27-2011, 10:12 AM

Yes, I had some anxiety issues and even confidence concerns when I had been living with low "T", before knowing what the culprit was. That, plus many other issues changed as I made my lifestyle changes and optimized my hormones.

On your labs, did they run your LH/FSH? I would guess that your condition stems from your HPTA being suppressed? As you know, HCG will stimulate natural production, just make sure the testes are in a position to produce more natural testosterone . I would bump up the HCG to at least 250iu x 3/wk. I would administer the HCG first prior to taking the clomid. Again, before taking either compounds, just make sure that secondary hypo is your diagnosis so that you will be medicating accurately.

**Brickhouse** · 12-27-2011, 11:20 AM

Thanks for the excellent advice!! Just reading this is making me feel like I have some hope then! It is horrible feeling anxious, always tired and with a very low sex drive. I remember when I was 18.....Sex drive and energy levels were amazing! Also I had no anxiety and my confidence was good. I did do a Dianabol only course a few years ago. I did 45mg ed for 6 weeks. I did not do any PCT......Wonder if this could have an effect on me?

They only did the one blood works on me and I don't know what it was they found only the number the Doctor gave me being 10.7. It was then I asked what it should be to which he said in the 20's but due to me falling in the safe guidelines of the NHS they cant help me......So I have taken it on myself to do as much research to find out what I need and at what dose thus the replies are really helpful.

**Brickhouse** · 12-27-2011, 11:21 AM

Thanks for the excellent advice!! Just reading this is making me feel like I have some hope then! It is horrible feeling anxious, always tired and with a very low sex drive. I remember when I was 18.....Sex drive and energy levels were amazing! Also I had no anxiety and my confidence was good. I did do a Dianabol only course a few years ago. I did 45mg ed for 6 weeks. I did not do any PCT......Wonder if this could have an effect on me?

They only did the one blood works on me and I don't know what it was they found only the number the Doctor gave me being 10.7. It was then I asked what it should be to which he said in the 20's but due to me falling in the safe guidelines of the NHS they cant help me......So I have taken it on myself to do as much research to find out what I need and at what dose thus the replies are really helpful.

**Vettester** · 12-27-2011, 11:48 AM

Yeah, that D-Bol only run could have messed with you. I don't know how it is across the pond, but in the US we have the right to get copies of our BW results.

Can you attempt to get copies and post the results with ref. ranges? Your doctor was quick to pull the trigger for those other meds, so I get the feeling you might need to look closer for someone who specializes in this area. If your axis has been suppressed for several years, I don't suspect your odds will be very good for being able to restart your natty. Never say never, but there's a good chance that you will need TRT from hereon.

Trust me when I say that those anit-anxiety meds will only take some of the edge off, but it won't cure your issues. I've been through all of this. It's worth it to get a complete battery of labs drawn, and then reviewed closely with physician who is prepared to treat you accordingly. Read this recent thread to get a better idea of what you need to be thinking about: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-TRT-Physician

Feel free to ask more questions, and we can help clarify any of this if needed.

**ecdysone** · 12-27-2011, 01:16 PM

First of all, welcome!

For anyone to help you here, you are going to need to post (or obtain) complete blood work results, including free testosterone , estradiol, SHBG, etc.

Like vetteman08 mentioned, the only way to tell if HCG and/or an AI will help is by knowing your LH/FSH numbers. Age-wise you're at the cusp for such
therapy to be successful, so it's hard to recommend anything.

**bullshark99** · 12-27-2011, 03:27 PM

Brickhouse, this is million dollar advice, not kiding! You want help, listen to guys like vetteman08!!!!! The serious people on this board (which I find is most of them) are not playing games, they are here to, Lets say "pay back" OK, they are all trying to help! I have been down the anti anxiety med route myself, it is only a band-aid. I have no problem with meds, but if you want to get to the real problem and get the best available help, do it right, get the full blood work up and get to the bottom of what the real issue's are. Sorry if this comes across as "a matter of fact: but look, find out what is going on and you will be a different person if it can be identified. Best of luck my friend and keep us posted.

**neversurrendr** · 12-27-2011, 03:33 PM

Compliments to vetteman08, he knows his stuff. I doubt that the 6 weeks of dbol cut off your natty. You would be in an extreme demographic if that was your cause. More likely, your "normal" level of T was on the high end of the "range" (for example, 28.0) when you were in full production. Now you are on the low end of that range (10). This would be a big swing and explain your symptoms. The same thing can happen with thyroid. You may be within normal ranges but the real question (unanswerable) is "what was your level prior to feeling like crap"... Check your thyroid too, brother. Good luck.

**kelkel** · 12-27-2011, 05:53 PM

^^^^Good advice above. Run with it. If you end up going the TRT route do your research on Nebido as a therapy. There are threads here you will find interesting on it.

good luck and welcome.

**Brickhouse** · 12-27-2011, 07:24 PM

What can I say guys......Thank you. What great and kind advice.

I will make an appointment with the Doctor and get my full blood works done then ask for the results so I can post them up here.

Once again......Thanks.

**ecsaaron** · 12-27-2011, 07:36 PM

I say be persistant, be a pain in the ass (not really) but dont let the Dr off the hook to easy. Its your health and when you get dialed in it will change your life. Hang in there and get some good advice here,,,,,,Welcome

**Vettester** · 12-27-2011, 07:39 PM

Brick, welcome to the forum. We look forward to watching your progress.

**fit2bOld** · 12-27-2011, 07:53 PM

Welcome Brick may we have all had assorted issues and the guys here are very knowledgeable, ask the Dr. for a copy of that blood work and post it up. We take a very proactive approach here, be assertive and demand quality care and to be informed as it is your health!!

**JD250** · 12-27-2011, 08:07 PM

Welcome Brickhouse, keep us updated on your progress and here's a little something to go along with your screen name..........

http://youtu.be/C4EC8SrQKL4

Now try to get that song out of your head.....LOL

**Brickhouse** · 12-28-2011, 09:40 AM

Guys!!

I managed to get the results from my blood test I had the other month.

Ok......Here we go.....This means nothing to me so I hope someone can help!

Specimen Desc: Blood

Serum TSH Level 2.20

Serum Testosterone 10.7

**kelkel** · 12-28-2011, 10:04 AM

You need to post full blood work with ranges to get a good analysis. The above is incomplete at best. Ask for a copy of your entire blood work. Have them fax it to you. If you don't have a fax, create a free one on line (faxaway, efax, etc) and it will come directly to your email. As long as you use the service a couple times a month you can maintain it, FYI.

**Brickhouse** · 12-28-2011, 11:23 AM

Thank you KelKel. I have phoned the doctors and the quickest they can get me a full Testosterone blood work is the 25th of Jan!! So I will have to wait until then.

In the meantime I found out the exact levels from a Clinic the specialises in TRT for Men in London. I had to pretend I was interested in their treatment due to it costing £1,200 to be seen ($1,880 USD) which I dont have!! Anyway spoke to some top guy from there and he said for my age (37) the exact Serum Testosterone levels are from..... 7.5 to 30.9.......So at least I know that the Serum Testosterone is very low with me being 10.7.

The other test which was TSH levels I checked out on Google. Mine is 2.20.......This can be from 0.9 to 4.8 and is something to do with the thyroid. So my levles on this seem good. This is what I found on Google.........

Measurement of serum TSH is generally considered the best screening test for thyroid disease. Increased values indicate hypothyroidism. The test is both sensitive and specific.
However, its sensitivity causes a dilemma, as some patients are found to have elevated TSH levels, but have normal free thyroxine hormone levels, and may also be asymptomatic.

**pugster** · 12-28-2011, 12:24 PM

i am in the UK and have also faced the minefield here getting help ( my thread can be found via search) , most uk gp's do not have the knowledge and wont admit it, download /read /print off and show your gp the uk guidelines which can be found here >
cant post link google 'andriods uk'
there is a grey area from 9-12 n/mol which indicates you can be given a trt trial , the most important thing is to read the names of the specialists who wrote the above guidelines , google them and find the nearest to you , then ask your gp to refer you to them (rem by uk law you can now ask to be refered where you want) , i am in the midlands and can tell you via pm the closest to me (sorry i wont public post consultants) .

i also know of one private clicnic that is alot cheaper than most if you dont want to wait , getting nhs treatment took me almost a year of chasing things around , all (nhs or private) will generally start you on gels.

good luck

**Brickhouse** · 12-28-2011, 01:28 PM

Thanks Pugster! I cant seem to PM you? Just read your thread though and very interesting as your levels are almost identical to mine.

I did notice a member called Marcus had commented and put......

You should of made sure your T levels were very low before you had blood work done then your doctor would of sent you to see the specialist who would of brought your levels back up with medication.

How do I do this for my next blood test as in making my T levels are very very low?

Also.....Am I allowed to put my Email address on here as it would be great if you could Email me with some cheaper private clinics that I have come across.

Thank you.

**pugster** · 12-28-2011, 02:24 PM

ive never used as and am not a bodybuilder , tho ive read you can shut down your own production with a short cycle , the problem is not going to be seeing an endo or uro , but finding one that is upto date and supports trt , i was flat turned away by an endo my gp reffed me to simply because i was not below 9 n/mol , regardless of symptoms. thats why you need to find one that supports trt , the ones that wrote the guidelines for the UK role of androgen therapy are the obvious choice

.

google 'the leger clinic ' for private

mmm , i think ive read somewhere that going to your bloodtest with a shitfaced hangover and staying up all night helps aswell

tho the thing is you should not have to do this , make sure you download and printout /read the guidelines , they clearly state that 9-12 n/mol should be considered for a trt trial dependant on symptoms.

guidelines can also be downloaded from the BSSM website >download section
both the andriods uk (testosterone deficiency centre) and bssm websites have tons of info.

**Brickhouse** · 12-28-2011, 07:42 PM

Thanks pugster........I have spent the last few hours reading so many stories of guys with low test. This could be the cure for me.....At last! All I want is to be able to lead a normal life. I have a 13 year old daughter and it is so sad that I have anxiety and such low self esteem that I cant take her on holidays, to the shops etc as always in fear and always feel tired. The Doctors have tried me on almost every anti-depressant with no joy and now I am stuck on Valium at 15mg a day, Citalopram at 40mg a day and Klonopin at 0.5mg a day. If I find I feel better when my Test levels are raised I am going to be so happy yet annoyed as why did the Doctors not look into this in the first place......They were very quick to dish me out anti-depressants. I am also wondering if the fact that I had an operation when I was 9 to take both my balls from my abdominal and put them were they belong as I was born with both balls in my abdominal area......Maybe this could of had an effect on Low T? Also even with the cleanest of diets and strictest training I never put on much muscle...... When I went on Dianabol I exploded, I looked fantastic! This also leads me to my next question!!

When I am on TRT will I notice a good gains as in muscle size?

This forum really is fantastic with excellent members and advice. I always thought it was just me that could not perform well in bed as in not being able to get a full erection, always feel tired, anxious and moody. So many people have said over the years that I am like a woman with my moods......I think having a loe T would explain that now!! I really hope I am put on something. If not I will self administer!!