Cream vs. Injections

**fjr02** · 02-20-2012, 08:03 AM

I'm getting ready to start TRT.
My doc has given me the option of cream from a compounding pharmacy or test-c injections.

I've been reading all I can and come up with the following

Creams better: Creams promote less estrogen creation due to the lack of large T-level spikes from the injection
Creams better: More stable test level which simulates more the natural steady test production of functioning testes
Injections better: They are cheaper (but if insurance covers this it might not be a factor)
Injections better: Creams have a higher conversion to DHT

I've read that if creams are delivered to the arms instead of the groin area the resulting DHT is less.

Can anyone offer any opinions?

thanks

**kelkel** · 02-20-2012, 08:58 AM

It really boils down to personal preference. The overwhelming majority here will refer you to injections. Minimum once a week but a lot of us split the weekly amount in half and inject every 3.5 days. Promotes more stable levels and less spike in E. If you choose gels have him write you for Androgel 1.62%. I used it for a year or so and had great results until my DHT level went through the roof, so, obtain a baseline DHT level if you take that route. If I had young kids I would probably opt for injections to eliminate any chance of accidental transfer no matter how remote a possibility I think it is. Agel 1.62 is applied to the shoulders and upper arms only and literally dries in seconds. Not sticky, no odor.

After experiencing both gels and injections and would choose injections at this point. I haven't read anything about the arms as compared to groin and dht conversion. Transdermals have the tendency to elevate dht more than injections. Understand that T converts to DHT everywhere in the body except muscle via the 5 Alpha Reductase Enzyme. 5AR is everywhere except as stated, muscle. DHT is not a bad thing, it's what makes us men and is the most active androgen in the body.

Boils down to personal choice based on lifestyle and what you think is best for you. Good luck and keep us posted.

You can find proper BW in the stickies.

**fjr02** · 02-20-2012, 12:30 PM

Thanks kelkel.

Perhaps my BW he has will influence which method I use.

Dries in seconds - that should help prevent accidental transfer.
I have kids - I could keep a transdermal locked up for storage between uses.
I still have homework to do.

When your DHT increased, did you experience hair loss?

**steroid.com 1** · 02-20-2012, 03:46 PM

kel has it pretty much right as usual.

Note, many men absorb differently.

Some hyper-absorb, some absorb normally and some hypo-absorb.

There are many factors for this situation, some known others not known.

At some point most men on a gel or cream will cross over to IM injections for the reasons noted.

One upside with gel or cream there is little need for an AI.

Add in some hCG and you have a nice protocol.

Gel or cream in the genital area can increase absorption rates providing for higher levels in some men.

At the end of the day it's your call and then BW to tell the truth.

**Sharkarm** · 02-20-2012, 04:00 PM

How does getting a cream from a compound pharmacy work? Do they take insurance? Is it all mail order?

**steroid.com 1** · 02-20-2012, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Sharkarm

How does getting a cream from a compound pharmacy work?

Same as a brand name...no difference.

Do they take insurance?

Some do, some don't.

Is it all mail order?

Can be or local; dependent upon your Doctor.

Bold.

**Times Roman** · 02-20-2012, 04:15 PM

another thing to consider against creams...

...your woman is highly sensitive to testosterone , and so are your kids. say you rub some on, and then your woman is cuddling you. she can get some of that on her skin, and then absorb that into her system. not a good thing.

I was given the choice, and chose injections.

**Chemical engineer** · 02-20-2012, 05:08 PM

I have experience with fortesta gel. I like it alot but I seem to absorb it rather quickly. I usually crash about 10-12 hours after application. I assume it is just standard with me. Alcohol,caffiene, and IM injections tend to hit me hard very quickly as well. I have started to cake it on as opposed to rubbing it in. It has helped with the absorption rate but I need to get BW done to see where my levels are. The stuff is quite expensive even on insurance. Around 50 bucks and it will last about 2 months.
On a side note what gdevine said, putting it on your groin does enhance the experience but I dont recommend it. I had one red, burning left testicle. I only did that once.

**Herman Munster** · 02-20-2012, 05:58 PM

Fir02,

I have experienced both gels and now test injections. I have been on Testim for a period, I had excellent results for the first 3 months and then it started to tank. I'm not sure what happened and/or why, I was pretty disappointed, I didnt mind the application, I have kids - I knew the risks of transference, I would apply in the morning and head out to work, by the time I returned the transference was a non-issue. I would go back in a minute if I believed the absorption would be consistent, like it has been said above, everyone responds differently. It doesnt hurt to try it out.

Cost: I do not have any experiene w/ the compounding agents, I do know Axiron and Testim are (or where) offering incentives to use their products. Axiron was introducing a one year free w/ Testim something similar. I did use Axiron for a month or so, the product was too watery, made a mess.

**HRTstudent** · 02-20-2012, 07:04 PM

It's a personal preference really.

I am on androgel and I will say, for ME specifically, getting the right gel amount has been a challenge. If I were on injects I feel like it would be easier to "troubleshoot" but this is only a problem because I was too slow with follow ups. My doc is hard to get to because he's too busy. I understand not everyone will have that problem.

Also, keep in mind with injects there is the potential for long term scar tissue and the necessary complications that may arise simply from poking yourself every week.

I should say that I chose gels because I placed quite a bit of weight into the natural daily rise and fall. Basically, my goal was to mimic my own bodies optimal natural testosterone . Weekly injections moreso resemble elderly men. What this means? As far as I know there are no studies to say what is better or worse, but I figured mother nature chose the daily rise and fall for some good reason.

**ecdysone** · 02-20-2012, 09:19 PM

Don't forget this, Creams: designed to make maximum profit by big pharma...injectable test: not so.

**HRTstudent** · 02-21-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Don't forget this, Creams: designed to make maximum profit by big pharma...injectable test: not so.

The creams/transdermal do have advantages over injects. There are tradeoffs.

If sticking it to big pharma is your number 1 concern with HRT, however, then definitely go with injectable.

**kelkel** · 02-21-2012, 04:10 PM

Negative on the hair loss for me fjr.

**Scottish-Muscle** · 02-21-2012, 04:12 PM

How likely is the transfer? just when sleeping with girlfriend should I wear a jumper or something?

**fjr02** · 02-21-2012, 05:05 PM

Well, I've decided to go with injections. It's not like I haven't ever done them before - it's just been a long time.
Maybe once per week will keep my levels smooth enough. Time will tell.

Will cyp squeeze through a 23 gauge?
Back in school I'm pretty sure I used 21's or 22's.

**SEOINAGE** · 02-21-2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by fjr02

Well, I've decided to go with injections. It's not like I haven't ever done them before - it's just been a long time.
Maybe once per week will keep my levels smooth enough. Time will tell.

Will cyp squeeze through a 23 gauge?
Back in school I'm pretty sure I used 21's or 22's.

easily, doc prescribed me 23 gauge needle, and honestly I want smaller.

**steroid.com 1** · 02-21-2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

easily, doc prescribed me 23 gauge needle, and honestly I want smaller.

18g to load.

27g to inject.

**APIs** · 02-21-2012, 06:40 PM

Being around this forum for two years, it seems that a majority of people who start with Gels/Creams end up switching to IM eventually. I also know 4 guys in my gym that started with creams & then went IM. Just an observation...

**steroid.com 1** · 02-21-2012, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

Being around this forum for two years, it seems that a majority of people who start with Gels/Creams end up switching to IM eventually. I also know 4 guys in my gym that started with creams & then went IM. Just an observation...

Yea, it seems inevitable doesn't it?

At some point they have to switch to get the true benefit for any number of reasons...but your observation is accurate API.

**FONZY007** · 02-21-2012, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

18g to load.

27g to inject.

I was loading and injecting with 25 G

**ecdysone** · 02-21-2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by APIs

Being around this forum for two years, it seems that a majority of people who start with Gels/Creams end up switching to IM eventually. I also know 4 guys in my gym that started with creams & then went IM. Just an observation...

Curious... do you know why? My history is the same.

**SEOINAGE** · 02-22-2012, 08:09 AM

Got a 25 g last night and loaded easily and made it through my skin easier. I was going to buy a 27 but they didn't have it.

**APIs** · 02-22-2012, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Curious... do you know why? My history is the same.

No, I'm guessing people absorb the product differently and/or have problems with the regimen of daily application. Let's not forget the cost too. These seem to be the majority of complaints I've seen. IDK, you do hear of some success stories, but the history on this forum suggests these products are just not a viable long-term treatment for most people.

**HRTstudent** · 02-22-2012, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Curious... do you know why? My history is the same.

Forums are not really a great representative sample. Also, you will always read more about people who gels didn't work for for the simple reason that once the gels DO work for someone, they aren't likely to keep posting about their non-problems.

You've got to be careful on forums because it's a very select group and not always representative of multiple sides.

**FONZY007** · 02-22-2012, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

Curious... do you know why? My history is the same.

Well for me it was all about the price, for a three month supply of needles and 10ml vial of cypionate it cost me under 10 bucks versus 250 for androgel