Low Testosterone



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  1. #1
    Simon1972's Avatar
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    lowering SHBG in order to make more free test available

    I’ve read articles before, giving some advice on what in my every day life causes my test levels to go up and what causes them to go down.

    But after an extensive research I couldn’t find an article, explaining in detail how and actually what exactly I should manipulate directly in my system to achieve the effects I desired – namely not only higher levels of circulating testosterone but also how much of it will be available to the corresponding receptors in the cell walls.

    Moreover, I wanted to know all this in regards to natural bodybuilding…

    So, I decided to do some good digging and reading and then if I manage to put things together, to lay that in writing form so that others can benefit as well.

    Without wasting even a minute more I will start this off by describing what testosterone is and what it does in the human body. Testosterone is a steroid hormone with anabolic and androgenic properties. It is the main hormone, responsible for the increase in lean muscle tissue, increased libido, energy, bone formation, and immune function.

    Testosterone is secreted in the testes in men and in the ovaries in women. Small amounts are also secreted in the adrenal glands. Testosterone is derived from cholesterol. The levels of testosterone in men range between 350 and 1,000 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dl). After the age of 40 these normal levels start dropping by roughly 1 per cent a year..

    In the blood stream testosterone circulates in great percentage bound to so called binding proteins. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin or SHBG is the one that concerns us the greatest. .

    Why? .

    Because this is the main reason why testosterone might not be available to reach the cell receptor. When testosterone gets attached to SHBG, it is no longer able to perform its anabolic functions..

    What elevates SHBG: Anorexia nervosa, Hyperthyroidism, Hypogonadism (males), Androgen insensitivity/deficiency, Alcoholic hepatic cirrhosis (males), Primary biliary cirrhosis (females)..

    What suppresses SHBG: Obesity, Hypothyroidism, Hirsutism (females), Acne vulgaris, Polycystic ovarian disease, Acromegaly, Androgen-secreting ovarian tumors.

    Less than 1% of the circulating testosterone is in a free form in males (less that 3% in females). Only when in a free form this hormone can exhibit its properties by connecting to the androgen receptors on the cell walls. Based on a study 14 to 50 per cent of the testosterone is bound to SHBG in males and 37 to 75 in females. .

    It is worth mentioning that SHBG poses very high affinity for binding to testosterone. Therefore, changes in the SHBG levels noticeably influence the level of bioavailable testosterone..

    Let’s discuss for a moment what exactly a testosterone bioavailability is. Other than SHBG there are two more testosterone-binding proteins, also called carriers. One of them is albumin. It is a low-affinity binding protein, thus testosterone bound to it is considered “bioavailable”. .

    Albumin binds to testosterone in the range 45 to 85 per cent in men (25 – 65 in women). The third carrier is the cortisol binding globulin, which binds also with low-affinity to less that 1 % of the testosterone in circulation. .

    The free androgen index (FAI) indicates the amount of bioavailable testosterone. FAI is the sum of the free testosterone and the albumin and cortisol binding globulin. Or it’s the total serum testosterone minus the SHBG-bound testosterone..

    It is now clear why we should focus our attention on the properties of SHBG. The levels of this binding protein increase when there is excess estrogen present. .

    Conversely, SHBG levels drop if the testosterone levels are elevated. Here I should mention the fact that SHBG exhibits higher affinity to testosterone than to estrogen. Now, pay close attention… .

    It’s a well-known fact that testosterone is an estrogen precursor – it will convert to estrogen under the influence of the enzyme aromatase. Nothing that we don’t know so far. .

    Here is where it gets interesting. .

    Suppose that we have normal testosterone levels and we don’t suffer from any of the health ailments, which influence the SHBG levels. That means that SHBG levels are normal, too.

    Bare with me now. If more of this testosterone is converted to estrogen due to abnormal aromatase levels, the SHBG I will increase as well. SHBG, being more readily bound to testosterone, will leave us with excess estrogen levels in the system, which in turn will stimulate increased production of the SHBG protein from the liver. .

    This whole process ultimately amplifies estrogen levels. Estrogen readily binds to the androgen receptors in cells thus leaving less opportunity for the free testosterone. Even more important, estrogen is the messenger molecule that signals the brain to decrease testosterone production..

    Another thing of great importance is the fact that over 40 per cent of the SHBG protein circulates unbound in the blood stream in men (over 80 per cent in women), and albumin circulates unbound almost all of the time..

    Thus increase in the total testosterone levels does not produce any noticeable changes in the free testosterone levels unless there is a significant increase like the one seen after synthetic steroid hormone administration..

    Well, this whole story brings us to the conclusion that the main approach should be - to keep the testosterone bioavailability high..

    In this regard a natural athlete should strive to:.

    ** Attempt to increase the total testosterone as a means of keeping the testosterone levels from plunging.

    ** Prevent testosterone levels from getting low.

    ** Block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG.

    ** Lower the levels of the enzyme aromatase - less testosterone conversion to estrogen.


    1. How to increase testosterone levels.

    - Incorporate basic movements that involve several muscle groups in your training routine. Good ones are squats, dead lifts, and military presses. Basic (compound) exercises have been shown to play an important role in the testosterone levels..

    - The greatest workout related testosterone production occurs with the use of heavier weights and lower rep range. A study shows that the best is 85 per cent of your one-rep max.

    - Tribulus terestris is a natural supplement, which has been shown in some studies to have the ability to increase the leutenizing hormone (LH) levels.

    As we already mentioned above, one of the functions of LH is to stimulate testosterone production by the testes.

    2. How to prevent testosterone levels from getting low?

    ** Obesity. Based on the way the testosterone-estrogen mechanism works, increased levels of estrogen will ultimately decrease the circulating testosterone.

    Excess fat causes more estrogen production due to the fact that fat cells are those, which manufacture estrogen. So, the more fat cells, the more estrogen in the blood and the less testosterone.

    ** Drug and alcohol abuse. Alcohol has the property to inhibit your ability to remove estrogen from the blood stream by acting as a central nervous system depressant and also by decreasing zinc levels..


    ** Stress elevates corticosteroid levels in the blood steam, which causes the testosterone levels to decrease..

    ** Medications. Some medications, including estrogen and progesterone, lower the lutenizing hormone (LH) levels. LH is the hormone, responsible for the steroid hormones production..

    ** Diabetes. Studies suggest that there is a link between type 2 diabetes and lower testosterone levels..

    ** Hypertension and high cholesterol levels. These both cause the arteries to harden, this way decreasing the blood flow to the sex hormone producing organs. That of course leads to low sex hormone levels..

    ** Aging. Fact is after the age of 40 test levels drops by roughly one per cent per year. We can’t do too much about that. The clock keeps ticking for all of us. However, we can try to manipulate testosterone levels in any other possible way..

    ** Low fat diet. Low fat consumption causes increase of the SHGB, which means one thing – less free testosterone. It is considered that monounsaturated fats play an important role in testosterone levels and bioavailability..

    ** Overtraining can contribute to as much as 40 per cent drop in testosterone levels. That is why it’s important to notice early the signs of overtraining and give the body a week or two well-deserved rest..

    ** Not enough sleep. If you are not getting enough sleep the body is not recuperating well, which causes less testosterone and more corticosteroids to be released. .

    Just to mention corticosteroids like cortisol are in fact catabolic hormones meaning they use up muscle tissue to provide the brain and the heart with energy..

    ** Vitamin C. It suppresses the release of the stress hormone cortisol. Cortisol decreases testosterone levels. So, ultimately less cortisol, more testosterone.


    3. Block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG

    ** Nettle root as a highly concentrated extract has shown to be effective at binding to SHBG and therefore it permits more free testosterone to circulate the system. It also acts as a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor.

    This is the enzyme, responsible for the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a more potent form of the male sex hormone, which causes prostate enlargement and ultimately cancer.

    Methanolic extract of nettle can also cut down the SHBG levels, which is another form of elevating the free testosterone in the blood stream.

    ** Pygeum (prunus africana) is another herb, known to block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG. Nettle root and pygeum extracts also benefit the prostate gland as a preventive treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) both by blocking the 5-alpha reductase action.

    ** Avena Sativa is an extract from the straw of oats. It has somewhat different properties. It works by freeing bound testosterone, which increases the free testosterone in circulation..
    .

    4. Lowering aromatize levels.

    ** Zinc. The mineral zinc inhibits the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone into excess estrogen. The recommended dose for inhibiting aromatase is 80mg daily. However, be sure the combined zinc quantity of all the daily supplements you are taking does not go over this benchmark..

    ** Chrysin is a bioflavonoid that has shown a potential as a natural aromatase inhibitor. Chrysin is poorly absorbed in the system. It is found that when taken along with piperine, chrysin exhibits a lot better absorption..

    Supplementation with chrysin and piperine together might bring good results in reducing aromatase levels..

    .

    How does this all apply to the sport of natural bodybuilding.

    Let’s assume you are an individual, who exercises regularly and who doesn’t consider taking exogenous steroid hormones. In other words you are a natural athlete or enthusiast, who desires to keep his natural testosterone levels in the range, favoring good health and lean muscle mass build up.
    .

    Here is what you do:.

    1. If you are even slightly overweight consider staring immediately a diet and training routine, tailored toward fat loss and lean muscle retention.

    2. Consider also dropping the alcohol intake to absolute minimum if you want your efforts in keeping test levels high to give results.

    3. Begin mastering some types of self-control or even meditation. These will take care of the excess stress levels.

    4. Take medications only if they are absolutely essential for your health and are prescribed by your doctor. Talk to your personal physician to find out if there are any natural remedies to replace your current medications and if he recommends such approach for your health issue.

    5. Keep your blood pressure and the serum cholesterol in check.

    6. Eat enough good fats in your diet. Good means monounsaturated and omega-3 and 6 polyunsaturated fats.

    7. Don’t ever overtrain. Sleep enough to promote good recovery. Signs of overtraining are loss of appetite, tiredness and irritability, lack of motivation, impaired mental focus, prolonged recovery periods.

    8. Start relying more heavily on basic exercise movements. Train in the low rep range most of the time. 5 – 8 reps will ensure that you’re using weights that will eventually stimulate elevated testosterone levels.

    9. It will only do you good if you decide to try some or all of these natural supplements: chrysin - piperine blend, nettle root extract, pygeum, avena sativa extract, and tribulus terestris. Try to find them in your local health store. Follow the directions for best results.

    10. And you shouldn’t even consider training without supplementing your diet with enough vitamin C (at least 1g a day) and zinc (15mg min.). Take vitamin C with your multivitamin formula after breakfast, and post-workout with your protein shake. .

    Zinc should be present in your multivitamin blend but this is not enough. Take zinc with magnesium in the form of ZMA right before you go to bed on an empty stomach..

    .

    References:.


    Ron Geraci, Men's Health, De***ber 25, 2000; 13 Ways to Naturally Boost Your Testosterone Levels.

    LE Magazine January 2000; Replenish Testosterone Naturally
    Plant extracts favorably alter hormone metabolism and improve sexual desire in men.

    Jennifer A. Kelly, Ph.D. and Leo Vankrieken, Eur. Eng. Diagnostic Products Corporation; Sex Hormone Binding Globulin and the Assessment of Androgen Status.

    Cockatoo.com; Avena Sativa - are oats an aphrodisiac?.

    Gabe Mirkin, M.D.; High Cholesterol Causes Low Testosterone .

    Bodybuilding.com, Chrysin Info And Products - Block Estrogen, Increase Testosterone

  2. #2
    HRTstudent's Avatar
    HRTstudent is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    Nice primer for noobs to be sure...

    just a couple things I would like to point out:

    Most medical experts I am paying attention to lately state that testosterone actually begins to decline around age 27 as opposed to 40.

    Also, if you're interested in natural Aromatase inhibition I do think chrysin+piperine is good, but also consider grapeseed extract and also DIM might help with high E2. The thing with these herbs is that there just isn't much research on them because there is no money for big pharma to make here. But anastrozole is not a great or even good option for many many men on TRT. I'd love to see more bloodwork and trials on these natural and OTC AI's/E2 controls.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Edit: Regarding the grapeseed extract, there was a study done on women examining it's aromatase inhibitor activity that showed some serious promise. Of course, they weren't men on TRT, but we have to start somewhere!
    Last edited by HRTstudent; 05-28-2012 at 11:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Renholder is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRTstudent View Post
    But anastrozole is not a great or even good option for many many men on TRT.
    Please tell more.

  4. #4
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon1972 View Post
    I’ve read articles before, giving some advice on what in my every day life causes my test levels to go up and what causes them to go down.

    But after an extensive research I couldn’t find an article, explaining in detail how and actually what exactly I should manipulate directly in my system to achieve the effects I desired – namely not only higher levels of circulating testosterone but also how much of it will be available to the corresponding receptors in the cell walls.

    Moreover, I wanted to know all this in regards to natural bodybuilding…

    So, I decided to do some good digging and reading and then if I manage to put things together, to lay that in writing form so that others can benefit as well.

    Without wasting even a minute more I will start this off by describing what testosterone is and what it does in the human body. Testosterone is a steroid hormone with anabolic and androgenic properties. It is the main hormone, responsible for the increase in lean muscle tissue, increased libido, energy, bone formation, and immune function.

    Testosterone is secreted in the testes in men and in the ovaries in women. Small amounts are also secreted in the adrenal glands. Testosterone is derived from cholesterol. The levels of testosterone in men range between 350 and 1,000 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dl). After the age of 40 these normal levels start dropping by roughly 1 per cent a year..

    In the blood stream testosterone circulates in great percentage bound to so called binding proteins. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin or SHBG is the one that concerns us the greatest. .

    Why? .

    Because this is the main reason why testosterone might not be available to reach the cell receptor. When testosterone gets attached to SHBG, it is no longer able to perform its anabolic functions..

    What elevates SHBG: Anorexia nervosa, Hyperthyroidism, Hypogonadism (males), Androgen insensitivity/deficiency, Alcoholic hepatic cirrhosis (males), Primary biliary cirrhosis (females)..

    What suppresses SHBG: Obesity, Hypothyroidism, Hirsutism (females), Acne vulgaris, Polycystic ovarian disease, Acromegaly, Androgen-secreting ovarian tumors.

    Less than 1% of the circulating testosterone is in a free form in males (less that 3% in females). Only when in a free form this hormone can exhibit its properties by connecting to the androgen receptors on the cell walls. Based on a study 14 to 50 per cent of the testosterone is bound to SHBG in males and 37 to 75 in females. .

    It is worth mentioning that SHBG poses very high affinity for binding to testosterone. Therefore, changes in the SHBG levels noticeably influence the level of bioavailable testosterone..

    Let’s discuss for a moment what exactly a testosterone bioavailability is. Other than SHBG there are two more testosterone-binding proteins, also called carriers. One of them is albumin. It is a low-affinity binding protein, thus testosterone bound to it is considered “bioavailable”. .

    Albumin binds to testosterone in the range 45 to 85 per cent in men (25 – 65 in women). The third carrier is the cortisol binding globulin, which binds also with low-affinity to less that 1 % of the testosterone in circulation. .

    The free androgen index (FAI) indicates the amount of bioavailable testosterone. FAI is the sum of the free testosterone and the albumin and cortisol binding globulin. Or it’s the total serum testosterone minus the SHBG-bound testosterone..

    It is now clear why we should focus our attention on the properties of SHBG. The levels of this binding protein increase when there is excess estrogen present. .

    Conversely, SHBG levels drop if the testosterone levels are elevated. Here I should mention the fact that SHBG exhibits higher affinity to testosterone than to estrogen. Now, pay close attention… .

    It’s a well-known fact that testosterone is an estrogen precursor – it will convert to estrogen under the influence of the enzyme aromatase. Nothing that we don’t know so far. .

    Here is where it gets interesting. .

    Suppose that we have normal testosterone levels and we don’t suffer from any of the health ailments, which influence the SHBG levels. That means that SHBG levels are normal, too.

    Bare with me now. If more of this testosterone is converted to estrogen due to abnormal aromatase levels, the SHBG I will increase as well. SHBG, being more readily bound to testosterone, will leave us with excess estrogen levels in the system, which in turn will stimulate increased production of the SHBG protein from the liver. .

    This whole process ultimately amplifies estrogen levels. Estrogen readily binds to the androgen receptors in cells thus leaving less opportunity for the free testosterone. Even more important, estrogen is the messenger molecule that signals the brain to decrease testosterone production..

    Another thing of great importance is the fact that over 40 per cent of the SHBG protein circulates unbound in the blood stream in men (over 80 per cent in women), and albumin circulates unbound almost all of the time..

    Thus increase in the total testosterone levels does not produce any noticeable changes in the free testosterone levels unless there is a significant increase like the one seen after synthetic steroid hormone administration..

    Well, this whole story brings us to the conclusion that the main approach should be - to keep the testosterone bioavailability high..

    In this regard a natural athlete should strive to:.

    ** Attempt to increase the total testosterone as a means of keeping the testosterone levels from plunging.

    ** Prevent testosterone levels from getting low.

    ** Block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG.

    ** Lower the levels of the enzyme aromatase - less testosterone conversion to estrogen.


    1. How to increase testosterone levels.

    - Incorporate basic movements that involve several muscle groups in your training routine. Good ones are squats, dead lifts, and military presses. Basic (compound) exercises have been shown to play an important role in the testosterone levels..

    - The greatest workout related testosterone production occurs with the use of heavier weights and lower rep range. A study shows that the best is 85 per cent of your one-rep max.

    - Tribulus terestris is a natural supplement, which has been shown in some studies to have the ability to increase the leutenizing hormone (LH) levels.

    As we already mentioned above, one of the functions of LH is to stimulate testosterone production by the testes.

    2. How to prevent testosterone levels from getting low?

    ** Obesity. Based on the way the testosterone-estrogen mechanism works, increased levels of estrogen will ultimately decrease the circulating testosterone.

    Excess fat causes more estrogen production due to the fact that fat cells are those, which manufacture estrogen. So, the more fat cells, the more estrogen in the blood and the less testosterone.

    ** Drug and alcohol abuse. Alcohol has the property to inhibit your ability to remove estrogen from the blood stream by acting as a central nervous system depressant and also by decreasing zinc levels..


    ** Stress elevates corticosteroid levels in the blood steam, which causes the testosterone levels to decrease..

    ** Medications. Some medications, including estrogen and progesterone, lower the lutenizing hormone (LH) levels. LH is the hormone, responsible for the steroid hormones production..

    ** Diabetes. Studies suggest that there is a link between type 2 diabetes and lower testosterone levels..

    ** Hypertension and high cholesterol levels. These both cause the arteries to harden, this way decreasing the blood flow to the sex hormone producing organs. That of course leads to low sex hormone levels..

    ** Aging. Fact is after the age of 40 test levels drops by roughly one per cent per year. We can’t do too much about that. The clock keeps ticking for all of us. However, we can try to manipulate testosterone levels in any other possible way..

    ** Low fat diet. Low fat consumption causes increase of the SHGB, which means one thing – less free testosterone. It is considered that monounsaturated fats play an important role in testosterone levels and bioavailability..

    ** Overtraining can contribute to as much as 40 per cent drop in testosterone levels. That is why it’s important to notice early the signs of overtraining and give the body a week or two well-deserved rest..

    ** Not enough sleep. If you are not getting enough sleep the body is not recuperating well, which causes less testosterone and more corticosteroids to be released. .

    Just to mention corticosteroids like cortisol are in fact catabolic hormones meaning they use up muscle tissue to provide the brain and the heart with energy..

    ** Vitamin C. It suppresses the release of the stress hormone cortisol. Cortisol decreases testosterone levels. So, ultimately less cortisol, more testosterone.


    3. Block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG

    ** Nettle root as a highly concentrated extract has shown to be effective at binding to SHBG and therefore it permits more free testosterone to circulate the system. It also acts as a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor.

    This is the enzyme, responsible for the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a more potent form of the male sex hormone, which causes prostate enlargement and ultimately cancer.

    Methanolic extract of nettle can also cut down the SHBG levels, which is another form of elevating the free testosterone in the blood stream.

    ** Pygeum (prunus africana) is another herb, known to block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG. Nettle root and pygeum extracts also benefit the prostate gland as a preventive treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) both by blocking the 5-alpha reductase action.

    ** Avena Sativa is an extract from the straw of oats. It has somewhat different properties. It works by freeing bound testosterone, which increases the free testosterone in circulation..
    .


    4. Lowering aromatize levels.

    ** Zinc. The mineral zinc inhibits the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone into excess estrogen. The recommended dose for inhibiting aromatase is 80mg daily. However, be sure the combined zinc quantity of all the daily supplements you are taking does not go over this benchmark..

    ** Chrysin is a bioflavonoid that has shown a potential as a natural aromatase inhibitor. Chrysin is poorly absorbed in the system. It is found that when taken along with piperine, chrysin exhibits a lot better absorption..

    Supplementation with chrysin and piperine together might bring good results in reducing aromatase levels..

    .

    How does this all apply to the sport of natural bodybuilding.

    Let’s assume you are an individual, who exercises regularly and who doesn’t consider taking exogenous steroid hormones. In other words you are a natural athlete or enthusiast, who desires to keep his natural testosterone levels in the range, favoring good health and lean muscle mass build up.
    .

    Here is what you do:.

    1. If you are even slightly overweight consider staring immediately a diet and training routine, tailored toward fat loss and lean muscle retention.

    2. Consider also dropping the alcohol intake to absolute minimum if you want your efforts in keeping test levels high to give results.

    3. Begin mastering some types of self-control or even meditation. These will take care of the excess stress levels.

    4. Take medications only if they are absolutely essential for your health and are prescribed by your doctor. Talk to your personal physician to find out if there are any natural remedies to replace your current medications and if he recommends such approach for your health issue.

    5. Keep your blood pressure and the serum cholesterol in check.

    6. Eat enough good fats in your diet. Good means monounsaturated and omega-3 and 6 polyunsaturated fats.

    7. Don’t ever overtrain. Sleep enough to promote good recovery. Signs of overtraining are loss of appetite, tiredness and irritability, lack of motivation, impaired mental focus, prolonged recovery periods.

    8. Start relying more heavily on basic exercise movements. Train in the low rep range most of the time. 5 – 8 reps will ensure that you’re using weights that will eventually stimulate elevated testosterone levels.

    9. It will only do you good if you decide to try some or all of these natural supplements: chrysin - piperine blend, nettle root extract, pygeum, avena sativa extract, and tribulus terestris. Try to find them in your local health store. Follow the directions for best results.

    10. And you shouldn’t even consider training without supplementing your diet with enough vitamin C (at least 1g a day) and zinc (15mg min.). Take vitamin C with your multivitamin formula after breakfast, and post-workout with your protein shake. .

    Zinc should be present in your multivitamin blend but this is not enough. Take zinc with magnesium in the form of ZMA right before you go to bed on an empty stomach..

    .

    References:.


    Ron Geraci, Men's Health, De***ber 25, 2000; 13 Ways to Naturally Boost Your Testosterone Levels.

    LE Magazine January 2000; Replenish Testosterone Naturally
    Plant extracts favorably alter hormone metabolism and improve sexual desire in men.

    Jennifer A. Kelly, Ph.D. and Leo Vankrieken, Eur. Eng. Diagnostic Products Corporation; Sex Hormone Binding Globulin and the Assessment of Androgen Status.

    Cockatoo.com; Avena Sativa - are oats an aphrodisiac?.

    Gabe Mirkin, M.D.; High Cholesterol Causes Low Testosterone .

    Bodybuilding.com, Chrysin Info And Products - Block Estrogen, Increase Testosterone
    i bolded what you posted that directly applies to the title you posted

    also , are i'm a little confused...are you saying that those on trt need to do the to do list above to have high testosterone levels? or is that if you are trying to be natty or not on trt? cuz isnt that what i'm jabbing the needle in my arse for ?

  5. #5
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Some good points above. One caveat is that they forgot arguably the most important element which is your Vit D level. D has receptors in virtually every cell in your body and will help in suppressing shbg levels.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renholder View Post
    Please tell more.
    Read forums for the many users who have depleted their estradiol, the experts who have slowly lowered the doses prescribed of the drug, and the general side effects that many people are reporting from anastrozole/arimidex .

    I'm not saying it's not a good drug, but for a lot of guys on TRT anastrozole either proved too difficult to titrate or a general poor reaction. I'm not a doctor so I don't have hundreds of patients I see directly, but there is definitely a small backlash going on right now for us men to ease up on the anastrozole over the last year or so.

    Not only this, but we have to at least ask ourselves what are the long term implications of being on anastrozole? Sure we all firmly believe that we can be on TRT safely for decades, but what about being on a potent AI for just as long? Just food for thought, but I'd rather take an herb IF it can work for me.

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    ecdysone is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Just to complicate matters a bit, and this was something kel referenced some time ago: SHBG appears to be a hormone, or at least acts like a hormone. Whether it can be controlled or manipulated other than though the HPTA and/or other feedback loops is not clear. Herbs, and the like may have some effect, but I will still maintain there is precious little one can do about SHBG levels that would not require a direct effect on the HPTA (hence, the interrelationship with testosterone , DHT, E2 and so forth).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Some good points above. One caveat is that they forgot arguably the most important element which is your Vit D level. D has receptors in virtually every cell in your body and will help in suppressing shbg levels.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857
    ha, was speeding to the bottom to say the same thing - good catch, and pretty good intro article for natty questions.

  9. #9
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    i should have mentioned it- this isnt my work, just a blog i came across that i thought would be of interest and get some discussion flowing.

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    Renholder is offline Associate Member
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    HRTStudent,

    Interesting.

    Could it be as simple as Crysin and Zinc, then?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renholder View Post
    HRTStudent,

    Interesting.

    Could it be as simple as Crysin and Zinc, then?
    zinc probably isn't going to be as powerful as Chrysin... but will Chrysin work for you? If I had mildly elevated e2 I would try herbs before anastrozole. Intuitively, it seems like the healthier long term option.

    Be sure to take chrysin with piperine though since without that the bioavailability is very very low.

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    Renholder is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRTstudent View Post
    zinc probably isn't going to be as powerful as Chrysin... but will Chrysin work for you? If I had mildly elevated e2 I would try herbs before anastrozole. Intuitively, it seems like the healthier long term option.

    Be sure to take chrysin with piperine though since without that the bioavailability is very very low.
    I`m starting with 100 mg zinc per day, today.

    Actually, I tested on the low range (whatever that means) for zinc, so it should not hurt either way. Not sure how high my E2 is. Maybe you can comment on my other thread?

    I don`t know what is high, just that it is above the range.

    Cheers.

    Renholder

  13. #13
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    And also, most docs just mass action a little more Test which will suppress the shbg. Other than the items mentioned in the above posts you could always try prescription Danazol. I haven't yet but will if needed. Crisler prescribes it btw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Some good points above. One caveat is that they forgot arguably the most important element which is your Vit D level. D has receptors in virtually every cell in your body and will help in suppressing shbg levels.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857
    you harp on about vitamin d nearly as much as i harp on about aromasin ! ive bought some today- will give this vitamin D a real good try and see how results change...thanks for the heads up kel kel...info like this changes lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    you could always try prescription Danazol. I haven't yet but will if needed. Crisler prescribes it btw.
    Does he?

    I thought I read one of his posts that said it was just a way to suck money from patients in that the HPTA would eventually rebalance SHBG following a short period in which levels did decline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon1972 View Post
    i should have mentioned it- this isnt my work, just a blog i came across that i thought would be of interest and get some discussion flowing.
    Thank you for stating that Simon...it was clear to me this was published work of some type.

    It would have been better to state that in your original post...but good here as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecdysone View Post
    Does he?

    I thought I read one of his posts that said it was just a way to suck money from patients in that the HPTA would eventually rebalance SHBG following a short period in which levels did decline.
    Yep, he does. If the patient wants it. But as stated, his normal modus operandi is to mass action more test. It would be interesting to try that and at the same time add in D as well as nettle and see if the lower levels can be maintained once off the script.

    And yes Simon, I've definitely been "harpin" about it. We learn here every day!
    Last edited by kelkel; 06-05-2012 at 08:50 AM.

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    ..............

    It seems it takes about a month for SHBG levels to stabilize on Danazol. Simply, it works for some, not others.

    For those with intact systems, not on any other meds, the body usually senses the heightened Free T, and lower LH. So you are right back where you started.

    I think Danazol's best use is with the "Chronic Clomid" protocol (at 12.5 or 25mgs per day) when the Clomid is found to elevate SHBG. (Just as we may add in an AI if E gets too high).

    But, again, it doesn't work for everyone there, either.

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    Good pull HRT! Mine was from a conversation a couple days ago actually.

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    Yes, great piece of research HRT!

    Doesn't appear he has addressed its use/or not for TRT guys, though.

    Kel: is that conversation privileged? It still seems to me he is a bit wishy-washy on the subject.
    Last edited by ecdysone; 06-04-2012 at 09:08 PM.

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    Vettester is offline Banned
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    Sorry HRT, you will need to edit out those links. It's informative, but the rules don't allow other forum links.

    Thanks!!

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    Here is the exact conversation I had on May 31st re shbg. I pasted it over:

    Me: Honor to speak to you doc! 60mg T every 3.5 days, HCG 250 IU x 3 per week. No AI needed. In excellent physical condition but I've noticed it creeping up a bit. Added D (Drisdol) as I was low (like everyone) and nettle. May do BW next week to see if any progress. Your thoughts are much appreciated!

    Dr. Crisler: I don't specifically try to manipulate SHBG level, whether high or low. It finds its own level, based upon many factors. Elevated SHBG is most commonly a sign of elevated estrogen (but not always). If it is high, I simply mass action more testosterone over the top of it. Besides increasing Bioavailable Testosterone, that also tends to lower SHBG.

    Me: Definitely not E related in my case. I run relatively low. Last 3 tests were 15 -16-15 per labcorp sensitive E panel therefore no AI. I have leverage to move T up a notch but isn't that a means to an end, or with the implementation of noted supplements will it make it then easier to keep it my shbg lower?

    3rd party: Doc, are you still using danazol for elevated SHBG? This started to gain popularity prior to me leaving the pharmacy

    Dr. Crisler: I am willing to try it in all patients who want to.

    Ecd that sums it up..

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    Thanks Kel, so it sounds like he doesn't really favor messing with SHBG - likewise, I typically say the same thing.

    If you remember that LEF article, there does seem to be body of evidence suggesting that it's role is alot more complex than just a a "carrier" of test in the body.

    The fact that it's produced by the liver instead of one of the usual endocrine organs tells you that the bio-feedback loops that affect it are going to be complex, including the role of E2 and thyroxine. Since it binds E2 it appears that as that substance increases, more SHBG is generated in response, but unfortunately the more favorable binding to test thereby amplifies its effect.

    Then there's the suggestion that SHBG may be a hormone in it's own right with HPTA-related feedback loops.

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    That's what makes it so intriguing. I'm constantly reading on it anymore!

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    ok here is a study - granted its on women and they were postmenopausal- (long bow i know) can the results be correlated to effects being inline with a males physiology???

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22321061


    Effects of exemestane and tamoxifen on hormone levels within the Tamoxifen Exemestane Adjuvant Multicentre (TEAM) Trial: results of a German substudy.

    Hadji P, Kauka A, Bauer T, Tams J, Hasenburg A, Kieback DG.


    Source

    University Hospital of Giessen and Marburg , Marburg.


    Abstract

    Aim The aim of this study was to compare the effects of exemestane and tamoxifen on hormone levels in postmenopausal patients with hormone receptor-positive breast cancer within a Germany substudy of the Tamoxifen Exemestane Adjuvant Multinational (TEAM) trial. Methods Within the TEAM trial, patients were randomized to receive adjuvant treatment with exemestane for 5 years or tamoxifen for 2.5-3 years followed by exemestane for 2-2.5 years. Serum levels of testosterone , dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS), sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and parathyroid hormone (PTH)-intact were measured at screening and after 3, 6 and 12 months of treatment. Results Data on hormone levels were available from 63 patients in the tamoxifen arm and 68 patients in the exemestane arm. Treatment with exemestane resulted in decreases from baseline in SHBG and PTH-intact levels, and increases from baseline in testosterone , DHEAS and FSH levels. Tamoxifen treatment resulted in increases from baseline in SHBG and PTH-intact, whereas levels of testosterone and FSH decreased and DHEAS levels did not change. At all time points assessed, the absolute change from baseline was significantly different between tamoxifen and exemestane for testosterone, SHBG, FSH and PTH-intact (all p < 0.0001). Conclusions Exemestane and tamoxifen had statistically significantly different effects on hormone levels, including testosterone, SHBG, FSH and PTH-intact.


    PMID: 22321061 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
    Last edited by Simon1972; 06-05-2012 at 09:46 PM.

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