Low Testosterone



Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. #1
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130

    Lab Results 9-25-12

    I am looking for some input on my results.

    5'8", 180 lbs, 15% bf +/- 34 years old.

    Current HRT
    Daily application of 2, 5 gm packets of Androgel 1%

    Daily supplements
    2- Aleve
    2- Men's vitamins
    2100 mg of Arginine Ethyl Ester HCL
    1000mg L-Arginine
    2000mg Glucosamine with 1000iu D3
    BCAA's L-Leucine 1200mg/ L-Valine 600mg/ L-Isoleucine 600mg
    2400 mg Fish oil/ 720 mg Omega3
    1400mg flax seed oil

    Since bloodwork added the following
    50mg DHEA
    5000iu D3

    Test's as follows

    CBC/ Diff Ambiguous Default
    WBC 7.4 x10E3/uL range 4.0-10.5
    RBC 5.43 x10E6/uL range 4.14-5.80
    Hemoglobin 16.2 g/dL range 12.6-17.7
    Hematocrit 48.1% range 37.5-51
    MCV 89 fL range 79-97
    MCH 29.8 pg range 26.6-33
    MCHC 33.7 g/dL range 31.5-35.7
    RDW 13.3 % range 12.3-15.4
    Platelets 254 x10E3/uL range 140-415
    Neutrophils 67 % 40-74
    Lymphs 25 % 14-46
    Monocytes 6 % range 4-13
    Eos 1 % range 0-7
    Basos 1% range 0-3
    Neutrophils (absolute) 4.9 x10E3/uL range 1.8-7.8
    Lymphs (absolute) 1.9 x10E3/uL range 0.7-4.5
    Monocytes (absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL range 0.1-1
    Eos (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.4
    Baso (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.2
    Immature Granulocytes 0 % range 0-2
    Immature Grans (abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1

    comp. metabolic panel
    Glucose Serum 97 mg/dL range 65-99
    BUN 14 mg/dL range 6-20
    Creatine Serum .94 mg/dL range .76-1.27
    eGFR if NonAfricn Am 105 mL/min/1.73 range >59
    eGFR if Africn Am 122 mL/min/1.73 range >59
    BUN /Creatine Ratio 15 range 8-19
    Sodium Serum 142 mmol/L range 134-144
    Potassium Serum 4.1 mmol/L range 3.5-5.2
    Chloride Serum 105 mmol/L range 97-108
    Protein Total Serum 6.8 g/dL range 6.0-8.5
    Albumin Serum 4.5 g/dL range 3.5-5.5
    Globulin Total 2.3 g/dL range 1.5-4.5
    A/G Ratio 2.0 range 1.1-2.5
    Bilirubin Total 1.1 mg/dL range 0.0-1.2
    Alkaline Phosphatase Serum 67 IU/L range 25-150
    AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L range 0-40
    ALT (SGPT) 37 IU/L range 0-55

    lipid panel
    Cholesterol Total 177 mg/dL range 100-199
    Triglycerides 147 mg/dL range 0-149
    HDL Cholesterol LOW 38 mg/dLrange >39
    LDL Cholestrol high 110 mg/dLrange 0-99
    VLDL Cholesterol 29 mg/dL range 5-40

    LH low 0.6 mIU/mL range 1.7-8.6
    FSH low 0.8 mIU/mL range 1.5-12.4

    Testosterone free and total
    Testosterone serum low 194 ng/dL range 348-1197
    Free Testosterone Direct low 7.9 pg/mL range 8.7-25.1

    Thyroxine
    T4 Free Direct 1.29 ng/dL range .82-1.77
    DHEA -sulfate 194.1 ug/dL range 160-449
    TSH 1.2 uIU/mL range .450-4.5
    Vit-D 25-Hydroxy 49.9 ng/mL range 30-100
    Prostate specific Ag Serum 1.3 ng/mL range 0.0-4
    Methylmalonic Acid Serum 213 umol/L range 73-376
    Homocyst(e)ine Plasma 6.7 umol/L range 0-15
    Triiodothyronine Free Serum 3.6 pg/mL range 2-4.4

    Estrogens Fractionated
    Estradiol 16.8 pg/mL range 7.6-42.6
    Estrone Serum 46pg/mL range 12-72
    Estriol Serum <0.3 ng/mL range not Estab.

    Since bloodwork Docotr has agreed to drop gel and start 1 mL test cyp eow, allowing self administered so doing .5 mL ew on Wednesday ..

  2. #2
    bass's Avatar
    bass is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In Southern Commiefornia
    Posts
    8,703
    wow, how many times are we going to see that the creams are shit! you're the second one in two days posted lower test levels than normal being on gels. other than your test level and lipids everything else looks fine. however your e2 test is the wrong one, you need to do the sensitive assay to have accurate readings. i am assuming this is labcorp results, correct? stay away from flax seed oil.

  3. #3
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    It is lab corp.. Why the no on flax seed oil?

  4. #4
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    Bump..

  5. #5
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    Not too sure who's checking this out but last time I tried to post these results gdevine had stopped in, I am hoping maybe he might again.

    GD, if perhaps you are checking this out, last time you made the statement that you were not positive if I was primary or secondary.

    In digging a little deeper in my own past trying to come to some conclusions to why I may have the low t issues in the first place, I have thought back to what may possibly have been my unintentional cause.

    Back at the age of, oh say 21. I had started going to the gym with a buddy I had meet that summer. At the time I was all of 130lbs and that was dressed.. In the process of going to the gym I learn my friend is using gear. He offered to me but at the time I was not interested in it. I thought I would be smart and just buy supplements from the vitamin / supplement store in the gym. So I proceeded to use theses, just oral supplements along with lots of cell tech Creatine. Over the next six or so months I grew at a rather awesome rate to my current weight of 180. Now being 21 I was and until of recent under the impression I just grew due to my age and perhaps just some kick ass genetics.

    After reading many logs on here and hearing the many warnings from veterans to new younger guys to stay away from gear and such until older. I do believe that perhaps those supplements that have since been removed from stores as with just about 90% of supplements from back then due to FDA research may be the root to my issues of low t and such.

    Would this being the cause have any effect on treatment or would I just continue on with the direction I am going?

  6. #6
    Brohim's Avatar
    Brohim is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,299
    only pro-hormones liker superdrol would do that. Not cell tech and stuff from GNC. Also most guys need to take 100 grams of test cream per day minimum because you only absorb 10% of the gel/cream. So you take only two, 5 gram packet's of 1%? That sounds low. Do you know androgel has new 1.62% cream? If it were me, I would search other men taking that cream and see what dose they are having results with and get your doc. to switch you over and/or up your dose.

  7. #7
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    The supplements were things other than the cell tech and such, they were oral I can't remember the name of them but I do remember them starting with suffixes such as Ana, deca , and such.. I'm just guessing as lots of different "ingredients " are no longer used that may have been then.

    He did switch me to test cyp 1 mL eow, I am doing 1/2ml ew. This week was my 3rd injection.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Fla
    Posts
    4,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug350SD View Post
    It is lab corp.. Why the no on flax seed oil?
    Flax Seed, like Soy, are estrogen mimics.

  9. #9
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Flax Seed, like Soy, are estrogen mimics.
    Ok then no more for me...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Fla
    Posts
    4,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug350SD View Post
    I am looking for some input on my results.

    5'8", 180 lbs, 15% bf +/- 34 years old.

    Current HRT
    Daily application of 2, 5 gm packets of Androgel 1%

    Daily supplements
    2- Aleve
    2- Men's vitamins
    2100 mg of Arginine Ethyl Ester HCL
    1000mg L-Arginine
    2000mg Glucosamine with 1000iu D3
    BCAA's L-Leucine 1200mg/ L-Valine 600mg/ L-Isoleucine 600mg
    2400 mg Fish oil/ 720 mg Omega3
    1400mg flax seed oil
    Stop the Flax Seed Oil at once.

    Since bloodwork added the following
    50mg DHEA
    5000iu D3

    Test's as follows

    CBC/ Diff Ambiguous Default
    WBC 7.4 x10E3/uL range 4.0-10.5
    RBC 5.43 x10E6/uL range 4.14-5.80
    Hemoglobin 16.2 g/dL range 12.6-17.7

    Hematocrit 48.1% range 37.5-51
    Give blood.

    MCV 89 fL range 79-97
    MCH 29.8 pg range 26.6-33
    MCHC 33.7 g/dL range 31.5-35.7
    RDW 13.3 % range 12.3-15.4
    Platelets 254 x10E3/uL range 140-415
    Neutrophils 67 % 40-74
    Lymphs 25 % 14-46
    Monocytes 6 % range 4-13
    Eos 1 % range 0-7
    Basos 1% range 0-3
    Neutrophils (absolute) 4.9 x10E3/uL range 1.8-7.8
    Lymphs (absolute) 1.9 x10E3/uL range 0.7-4.5
    Monocytes (absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL range 0.1-1
    Eos (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.4
    Baso (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.2
    Immature Granulocytes 0 % range 0-2
    Immature Grans (abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1

    comp. metabolic panel
    Glucose Serum 97 mg/dL range 65-99
    BUN 14 mg/dL range 6-20
    Creatine Serum .94 mg/dL range .76-1.27
    eGFR if NonAfricn Am 105 mL/min/1.73 range >59
    eGFR if Africn Am 122 mL/min/1.73 range >59
    BUN /Creatine Ratio 15 range 8-19
    Sodium Serum 142 mmol/L range 134-144
    Potassium Serum 4.1 mmol/L range 3.5-5.2
    Chloride Serum 105 mmol/L range 97-108
    Protein Total Serum 6.8 g/dL range 6.0-8.5

    Albumin Serum 4.5 g/dL range 3.5-5.5
    Fine

    Globulin Total 2.3 g/dL range 1.5-4.5
    A/G Ratio 2.0 range 1.1-2.5
    Bilirubin Total 1.1 mg/dL range 0.0-1.2
    Alkaline Phosphatase Serum 67 IU/L range 25-150
    AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L range 0-40
    ALT (SGPT) 37 IU/L range 0-55

    lipid panel
    Cholesterol Total 177 mg/dL range 100-199
    Triglycerides 147 mg/dL range 0-149
    HDL Cholesterol LOW 38 mg/dLrange >39
    LDL Cholestrol high 110 mg/dLrange 0-99
    LDL is a tad high and that can happen on a TRT procotol. Add is som Red Yeast Rice to your supps.

    VLDL Cholesterol 29 mg/dL range 5-40

    LH low 0.6 mIU/mL range 1.7-8.6
    FSH low 0.8 mIU/mL range 1.5-12.4
    Tanked and we know why.

    Testosterone free and total
    Testosterone serum low 194 ng/dL range 348-1197
    Free Testosterone Direct low 7.9 pg/mL range 8.7-25.1
    Either this assay if flawed or the Androgel is doing nothing for you. Interesting, however, that LH and FSH are tanked...hmmmm.

    Thyroxine
    T4 Free Direct 1.29 ng/dL range .82-1.77

    DHEA -sulfate 194.1 ug/dL range 160-449
    Take 50 mg of micronized DHEA every morning.

    TSH 1.2 uIU/mL range .450-4.5

    Vit-D 25-Hydroxy 49.9 ng/mL range 30-100
    Supp some D3.

    Prostate specific Ag Serum 1.3 ng/mL range 0.0-4
    Methylmalonic Acid Serum 213 umol/L range 73-376
    Homocyst(e)ine Plasma 6.7 umol/L range 0-15
    Triiodothyronine Free Serum 3.6 pg/mL range 2-4.4

    Estrogens Fractionated
    Estradiol 16.8 pg/mL range 7.6-42.6
    Estrone Serum 46pg/mL range 12-72
    Estriol Serum <0.3 ng/mL range not Estab.
    Fine (sensitive assay?)

    Since bloodwork Docotr has agreed to drop gel and start 1 mL test cyp eow, allowing self administered so doing .5 mL ew on Wednesday ..
    IMO you need to switch to injections as you absorb just enough to suppress HPTA (assuming the Test assay is correct) but no impact on serum levels.

    Agree with bass' assessment as well.

  11. #11
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    Is there any correcting the lh and fsh level ?

    Primary doctor put me on test cyp, I met with a naturopathic doctor last week and she suggested test prop.. Would this just be a personal preference between doctors or would prop be better to start with?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Fla
    Posts
    4,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug350SD View Post
    Is there any correcting the lh and fsh level ?
    Only if you had a thyroid condition which it appears at least you don't.

    Primary doctor put me on test cyp, I met with a naturopathic doctor last week and she suggested test prop.. Would this just be a personal preference between doctors or would prop be better to start with?
    Personal choice but most here like Cyp.

  13. #13
    TennTarheel's Avatar
    TennTarheel is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    245
    If I had my preference, I would rather have propionate than enanthate or cypionate . It is a much shorter ester, meaning quicker in, quicker out. The good side would be you could keep very stable test levels with low aromatization if you don't mind injecting ED or EOD. Just my opinion though. I wouldn't mind it

  14. #14
    Vettester is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Californication
    Posts
    5,657
    Prop would be way too difficult to manage for a continuous TRT regiment. By pinning 2x week with cyp, your serum level will be extremely consistent and stable. Pinning with this frequency via SubQ will also keep aromatization to a minimum. I would imagine that a patient would have to inject at least 1x per day to match the stability of what 2x per week of cyp would give you. Not a very convenient protocol IMO.

  15. #15
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ MONITOR ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    14,607
    Good info above. 100mg per week should work fine for you but it does take time for its full effect. Be patient and be sure to get blood work in 4 weeks or so and post it up. I think you'll be surprised with your results. Naturally adjustments will have to be made and ancillaries added in the future.

    Labcorp codes for the proper sensitive assay are as follows. Write them down and take them with you every time so they don't screw it up:

    E2 Sensitive: 140244. CPT code 82670

    kel

  16. #16
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by Vettester View Post
    Prop would be way too difficult to manage for a continuous TRT regiment. By pinning 2x week with cyp, your serum level will be extremely consistent and stable. Pinning with this frequency via SubQ will also keep aromatization to a minimum. I would imagine that a patient would have to inject at least 1x per day to match the stability of what 2x per week of cyp would give you. Not a very convenient protocol IMO.
    I haven't done sub q before but think I will try it. As I am only doing .5ml once a week that would be .25ml 2 times a week. I'll have to order some pins for this as Doctor only gave a script for 20gx1..

    Thanks for your input.

  17. #17
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post

    Labcorp codes for the proper sensitive assay are as follows. Write them down and take them with you every time so they don't screw it up:

    E2 Sensitive: 140244. CPT code 82670

    kel
    Thanks for the info,I will definitely give codes to doctor .
    Next labs are scheduled on the 30th of November, this would put me at my 9th injection and I have been injecting in the evening Wednesday so test day would be 7 am on Friday, would it be better to test sooner and the test should be on the 3rd day after last injection? Thanks again for you input.

  18. #18
    xcraider37 is online now Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    373
    Quote Originally Posted by Brohim
    only pro-hormones liker superdrol would do that. Not cell tech and stuff from GNC. Also most guys need to take 100 grams of test cream per day minimum because you only absorb 10% of the gel/cream. So you take only two, 5 gram packet's of 1%? That sounds low. Do you know androgel has new 1.62% cream? If it were me, I would search other men taking that cream and see what dose they are having results with and get your doc. to switch you over and/or up your dose.
    Two 5 gram packs of androgel is not a low dose. This guy is just not absorbing it, and needs to experiment with different delivery method. Which it appears he is doing.
    Last edited by xcraider37; 10-21-2012 at 08:30 AM.

  19. #19
    Vettester is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Californication
    Posts
    5,657
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug350SD View Post
    I haven't done sub q before but think I will try it. As I am only doing .5ml once a week that would be .25ml 2 times a week. I'll have to order some pins for this as Doctor only gave a script for 20gx1..

    Thanks for your input.
    Yeah, that's a good pin for drawing, but would be horrible to try and pin with it.

    .25cc will load up in approx. 1 minute with a 31g insulin pin. Easy, effective & consistent!! Run with it and I'm sure you will never look back. Also, you can include .25cc of B12 methylcobalamin with it as well ...

  20. #20
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ MONITOR ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    14,607
    Bet Vette's car that doc of yours wouldn't inject himself with a 20ga harpoon. That's just ridiculous! You'll like subQ and also get yourself some 25ga x 1" 3ml syringes for IM. Having options is a good thing. Just look on line. All are available.

    kel

  21. #21
    BULLY! BULLY!'s Avatar
    BULLY! BULLY! is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Hot Springs Arkansas
    Posts
    6
    OK I'm totally new to all this but I have been taking cyp for a little over a year. I thought it had to be im that it was not as effective in fat tissue. Sub is OK?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Fla
    Posts
    4,724
    ^^^^Yes, SQ is 100% effective.

    Dr. Crisler will have a instructions on how do this correctly very soon.

  23. #23
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    To be honest the 20gx1 hasn't been an issue in the glutes. However I am going to order the smaller pins and definitely try sub q.

  24. #24
    TennTarheel's Avatar
    TennTarheel is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    245
    Damn, 20g. More power to ya bro

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Fla
    Posts
    4,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug350SD View Post
    To be honest the 20gx1 hasn't been an issue in the glutes. However I am going to order the smaller pins and definitely try sub q.
    Who told you to use a 20g?

    That's like sticking a telephone pole into your ass.

    I like 27g...smooth as butter!

  26. #26
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ MONITOR ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    14,607
    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Who told you to use a 20g?

    That's like sticking a telephone pole into your ass.

    I like 27g...smooth as butter!

    Care to expand on that?..........

  27. #27
    Doug350SD is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    130
    Guys kinda have me wondering now, the nurse told me at my first injection that she uses that all the time, I tried to mention the smaller 25 g but she was like , ohhh no that would take forever..lol so bang it was in and done no time flat.

    I have done 2 now one on each side and had no problem, feel a micro pinch then it's kinda like those play needles we had as kids to play doctor you push down and the needle just disappears, I inject slow and kinda feel a warm sensation and all done, I haven't even had a blood spots... I think I'll check the sponsor site tonight and order some..

  28. #28
    TennTarheel's Avatar
    TennTarheel is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    245
    I've never heard of someone actually recommending a 20g. Owwie dude! Those would however be good to draw with, then switch the needle to a 27g or whatever and inject. If you didn't mind the 20, you'll absolutely love anything 25 and up. You'll be glad in the long run

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •