"DHEA - The Real Story"

[2Sox]

I just got back my recent blood work and I was very alarmed by the results for DHEA Sulfate:

I was "Out of Range" at 583 Reference Range wass <=204mcg/dL

I've only been taking DHEA supplementation for less than a month at 25mg once a day in a.m.

After I saw this I began to do some more research and found a very interesting article here:

DHEA - THE REAL STORY | Board Certified Nutritionist | Long Island

My research continues.. but I'd recommend that if anyone is considering supplementation with DHEA, think about it carefully and know what your doing.

[steroid.com 1]

This article, while interesting and I'd debate a number of this "nutritionists" comments, our use of DHEA while on a HRT protocol is not considered at all in this article.

He mentions restoring DHEA to normal healthy levels and that is exactly our goal when under we introduce Testosterone far down stream of DHEA.

Back filling the pathways is critical for so many reasons.

Again, read the HCG Preg sticky and read the section on DHEA.

[2Sox]

G,
I respect your knowledge a very great deal, but my statement still stands on its own. If anyone is considering supplementation with DHEA - with anything, for that matter - they should think about it carefully, do their own research, and know what they doing. The article I attached is just one thing people can read to make an informed decision. I hope it is useful.

When I got my lab results and saw my DHEA-S reading, red flags went up and I looked into it further. My hope is that everyone has the same opportunity to find out more.

[steroid.com 1]

From Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D. and one of the nations leading anti aging Practitioners re DHEA:
DHEA | Hormones

Dr Rouzier M.D.:
Neal Rouzier, M.D | Information

If you buy DHEA note his comment:
"DHEA should be prescribed in a sustained release, micronized form, which allows for more complete absorption and sustained level for more than 24-hour period. This means that you will only need to take the DHEA supplement once a day. In addition, DHEA can also be obtained by prescription at compounding pharmacy. This will assure a 100% pure pharmaceutical product and better absorption".

[steroid.com 1]

G,
I respect your knowledge a very great deal, but my statement still stands on its own. If anyone is considering supplementation with DHEA - with anything, for that matter - they should think about it carefully, do their own research, and know what they doing. The article I attached is just one thing people can read to make an informed decision. I hope it is useful.

When I got my lab results and saw my DHEA-S reading, red flags went up and I looked into it further. My hope is that everyone has the same opportunity to find out more.

Agree, but this article written by a Nutritionist does not take DHEA supplementation into HRT consideration.

Our purposes for it's use are not addressed here.

[2Sox]

I'm reading his article now. I take micronized 3 days a week - where I have a bottle at one location - and non-micronized, 4 days a week - at another location. Just worked out that way. I'm still "out of range", and I'm cutting down my dosage to 25 mg every three days - whatever pill I take.

And by the way, even if the concerns of those on TRT are not addressed, if your readings are out of range, dosage should be adjusted a.s.a.p. A no-brainer.

[2Sox]

Agree, but this article written by a Nutritionist does not take DHEA supplementation into HRT consideration.

Our purposes for it's use are not addressed here.

I read Rouzier's article that you indicated. My concern is that he doesn't address or explain the issues that Dr. Dobre' addresses. Good to have varying viewpoints.

[JimR]

Anyone have a recommendation a place to get tested? I have been taking 50 mgs nonmicronized every morning for about 2 weeks and feel like my nerves are a bit on edge since. Probably unrelated but will cut back till tested. Also started with preg. at same time.

[2Sox]

Anyone have a recommendation a place to get tested? I have been taking 50 mgs nonmicronized every morning for about 2 weeks and feel like my nerves are a bit on edge since. Probably unrelated but will cut back till tested. Also started with preg. at same time.

See if you can ask your physician to check off the box on the lab form when you get your next blood work done. That's what I did.

You can look up the code for the test online first to make it easy for him/her.

[steroid.com 1]

I'm reading his article now. I take micronized 3 days a week - where I have a bottle at one location - and non-micronized, 4 days a week - at another location. Just worked out that way. I'm still "out of range", and I'm cutting down my dosage to 25 mg every three days - whatever pill I take.

And by the way, even if the concerns of those on TRT are not addressed, if your readings are out of range, dosage should be adjusted a.s.a.p. A no-brainer.

You must absorb very well or just produce a naturally high level DHEA via the synthesis of Pregnenolone.

You may not need to supplement at all!

[2Sox]

You must absorb very well or just produce a naturally high level DHEA via the synthesis of Pregnenolone.

You may not need to supplement at all!

This could very well be the case. I take preg once a day as well - not micronized.

Shite, I still have two unopened bottles of DHEA micronized! Anyone want to buy them? ;-)

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I am 53 and the flip side to this coin I was taking 100 mg of non micronized DHEA and my BW in Feb was 40 the scale started at 660 to 1680 with Solstas labs I have changed to 75 mg of micronized DHEA daily and will have been on it and micronoized Prog 100 mg for 30 dayswhen I go for 8 week BW test at the end of April results !

[VTX1800]

I just started dhea this week without performing BW. I get enough acne from my cyp, and Im debating on stopping the dhea. Decisions decisions

[VTX1800]

From Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D. and one of the nations leading anti aging Practitioners re DHEA:
DHEA | Hormones

Dr Rouzier M.D.:
Neal Rouzier, M.D | Information

If you buy DHEA note his comment:
"DHEA should be prescribed in a sustained release, micronized form, which allows for more complete absorption and sustained level for more than 24-hour period. This means that you will only need to take the DHEA supplement once a day. In addition, DHEA can also be obtained by prescription at compounding pharmacy. This will assure a 100% pure pharmaceutical product and better absorption".

After read Rouziers article I may have changed my mind. Dhea stays!

[2Sox]

Read the other article I originally posted also - to get a fuller picture.

[steroid.com 1]

Read the other article I originally posted also - to get a fuller picture.

Again, I want to stress that this other article is not written by a medical practitioner nor a HRT Specialist and nowhere in this article is it discussed the indications for DHEA supplementation in the HRT hypogonadal male.

There are literally thousands of articles that one can find on the Internet pitching any position...right or wrong.

I tend to follow the advise of licensed HRT Medical Specialists, and not Nutritionists, who treat thousands and thousands of men day in and day out.

For me, I'd trust the medical counsel of a renowned TRT Physician like Dr. Rouzier over any Nutritionists no matter who they are.

Almost every HRT Physician who understands how to prescribe correct treatment all advise back filling the pathways with both Pregnenolone and DHEA.

I want folks reading this to understand that the paper 2Sox is referencing and to take that into consideration when you read it.

I'd also suggest, if one is interested, to go to Super Human Radio dot Com and listen to the interview with Dr. John Crisler on the therapeutic use of DHEA supplementation in HRT for men...it's very compelling indeed.

[2Sox]

Acknowledged and understood. We all must keep an open mind...

G,
Could you give a fuller explanation of what is meant by "backfilling the pathways"? I haven't been able to find a clear discussion of exactly what this means, in layman's terms. I think it would be useful to us all. Thanks.

[steroid.com 1]

From the Mayo Clinic on DHEA, pay special attention to the "evidence" link. This is a very very good read for both members and visitors and I highly recommend a quick read if you have the time.

DHEA - MayoClinic.com

Back filling the pathways.
If you listen to Dr. Crisler on Super Human Radio re the use of DHEA supplementation (he has one on there about Pregnenolone as well) you will come to understand understand what he means by "back filling" the pathways. It simply means that the hormones upstream of Testosterone are compromised when we inject Testosterone which is synthesized further down stream in the androgen pathway. Therefore, the production and serum levels of "foundation hormones" like Pregnenolone and DHEA are suppressed...and this is not a good thing.

Pregnenolone and DHEA are hormones in which every hormone in our body comes from and when these two are suppressed...guess what?...yep, all other hormonal pathways are compromised due to the suppression.

Pregnenolone and DHEA support not only the Androgen pathway but also the Glucocorticoid and Mineralocorticoid pathways so we need to make sure that while on a TRT protocol that both of these critical hormones are at optimal levels, not just for the incredible health benefits we get from them (read Rouzier's paper), but also to make sure we are supporting all hormonal pathways.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I understand this is a discussion but why would anyone want to disagree with the majority of say 50 men on this forum using almost the same proticall with a few tweaks here and there per person and they are doing fine once balanced and then they tweak their bodies even further ? I base my decissions on the majority of men actually doing and using supplements and showing me results as opposed to even out dated Dr. and this refrence to reading it on the internet is like the girl on TV meeting the fat guy that says he is a French modle and it has to be true because it is on the Internet ? Proof is in seeing and everyone is different ! Their is a Thread that shows Gdevine and Kel's proticall and that is a good baseline for anyone to target with minor adjustments to your own body you take 75 mg a week and are high ? I take 75 mg a day and I am low all ppl are different So educate yourself and know your own body ?

[HRTstudent]

I just got back my recent blood work and I was very alarmed by the results for DHEA Sulfate:

I was "Out of Range" at 583 Reference Range wass <=204mcg/dL

I've only been taking DHEA supplementation for less than a month at 25mg once a day in a.m.

After I saw this I began to do some more research and found a very interesting article here:

DHEA - THE REAL STORY | Board Certified Nutritionist | Long Island

My research continues.. but I'd recommend that if anyone is considering supplementation with DHEA, think about it carefully and know what your doing.

Haven't looked at the article yet, but like , 25mg once in the am got my levels way above normal range.

I didn't notice any benefit over my mid-range number anyways so I stopped taking it.

[kelkel]

It all boils down to blood work guys. Get it before you supplement with something that can impact hormonal pathways. Rather simple IMHO.

[2Sox]

It all boils down to blood work guys. Get it before you supplement with something that can impact hormonal pathways. Rather simple IMHO.

Very wise advice.

[kelkel]

Also prudent to keep an eye on it as your journey continues in TRT. Things change as your body searches for homeostasis so don't ignore it and assume all is well! Everyone checks their T & E levels without fail, right? Maintain your own records. Do not depend on your doctor.

[JimR]

Also prudent to keep an eye on it as your journey continues in TRT. Things change as your body searches for homeostasis so don't ignore it and assume all is well! Everyone checks their T & E levels without fail, right? Maintain your own records. Do not depend on your doctor.

Agreed. I'm habitual with spending the 50 dollars every month with privatemdlabs and the female panel. My doc with do labs very infrequently and even he admits privatemdlab is cheaper. Not to derail the thread but I don't think that is the sensitive estrogen that is recommended or DHEA.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

So Kel is my low DHEA level the reason my test goes up and down so much in an 8 week period ?

[nyjetsfan]

It all boils down to blood work guys. Get it before you supplement with something that can impact hormonal pathways. Rather simple IMHO.

Agreed! Every 10 weeks for me. This will help guys really dial in.

[Ryanmcd]

I did blood work 9 times last year as well as two 24 hours urine things and each time I tweeked it so I know how I felt at different levels and different things. Yes it took a year but I know my body very well and what works for me and can tell if something is off. Also I still run blood-work every 6 months just to be 100% safe but nothing ever changes now.

[zerodarkthirty]

Anyone have a recommendation a place to get tested? I have been taking 50 mgs nonmicronized every morning for about 2 weeks and feel like my nerves are a bit on edge since. Probably unrelated but will cut back till tested. Also started with preg. at same time.

After 3+ months on TRT, dropping the DHEA from 25 mg every day to once every 3 days has helped tremendously with my anxiety (which I have never had prior to starting TRT). Within about 2 hours of taking any DHEA, I get jumpy/panicky. I'm going to lay off of the stuff for awhile now and see where my BW comes in at.

[jomamma007]

could be coincidence, but ever since starting dhea a few weeks ago I have experienced bad anxiety as well. Discontinuing use has helped tremendously, not sure if there's a correlation. I thought it would help seeing as my levels were 200 on a scale of 200-500 before starting. Was taking 25mg twice a day micronized, which might be putting my levels above the range. Also I'm only two weeks into my hrt protocol so it might have been to soon to start it.

[kelkel]

So Kel is my low DHEA level the reason my test goes up and down so much in an 8 week period ?

Having knowledge of your situation, no.

[kelkel]

Remember that DHEA can act as a stimulant as well. We all react differently, even to supplements so there's no harm starting at a lower dose. Titrate up if BW dictates and sides are non-existant.

[ctenosaura]

50mg DHEA accidentally taken hours prior to bloodwork = 385.6 (44.3 - 331)
50mg DHEA taken day before bloodwork = 175.8 (44.3 - 331)
So what are you worried about?

[2Sox]

I'd also suggest, if one is interested, to go to Super Human Radio dot Com and listen to the interview with Dr. John Crisler on the therapeutic use of DHEA supplementation in HRT for men...it's very compelling indeed.

G,
How can I find that interview? This website assaults the senses!!

[2Sox]

Back filling the pathways.
.... It simply means that the hormones upstream of Testosterone are compromised when we inject Testosterone which is synthesized further down stream in the androgen pathway. Therefore, the production and serum levels of "foundation hormones" like Pregnenolone and DHEA are suppressed...and this is not a good thing.... but also to make sure we are supporting all hormonal pathways.

G,
Could you explain in more detail what this means? And also what specifically is "upstream" and "downstream"?

Also, can you tell us specifically, how these hormones suppressed - how it happens? Thanks.

[steroid.com 1]

G,
How can I find that interview? This website assaults the senses!!

I will PM you.

[steroid.com 1]

G,
Could you explain in more detail what this means? And also what specifically is "upstream" and "downstream"?

Also, can you tell us specifically, how these hormones suppressed - how it happens? Thanks.

2Sox, great questions but very basic.

A great starting point is to learn how the hormonal loops work within out bodies...they all do different things but function in the same way. Some laymen books that will do that are ones written by Nelson Vergel titled: Testosterone : A Man's Guide. Testosterone: A Man&#39;s Guide- Second Edition: Nelson Vergel: 9780966223125: Amazon.com: Books

There's no way I can get into it all here but one must know that hormones are created in a cascading event. In other words, one hormone is converted to make another hormone...and so on and so on.

Attached is a basic schematic of our androgen pathway. As noted, every single hormone in our bodies is created from Cholesterol (CHOL). Through activation of the p450scc enzyme CHOL is converted into Pregnenolone. Further in the cascading event (or further downstream from CHOL) we see the synthesis of both Progesterone and Hydroxypregnenolone. If one follows these cascading event we will see that Testosterone in the near bottom right corner is at the end of this schematic...in other words, Testosterone is synthesized far downstream in the pathway.

When a man injects exogenous Testosterone into their bodies all the event upstream of the testosterone as noted here will be suppressed as the body sees no reason to produce Testosterone (via the negative feedback loops) and hence the production of these other hormones are blunted.

In short, we need these other hormones regardless of Testosterone serum levels. So my supplementing with Pregnenolone and DHEA (which is not shown on this schematic and comes right after Pregnenolone) we are insuring ourselves that these other hormones upstream of Testosterone are at optimal levels.

[kelkel]

And then your testosterone converts to DHT everywhere in your body (except skeletal muscle) via the 5 Alpha Reductase enzyme. Lets not forget estrogen as well!

[steroid.com 1]

Yea, tried to keep it simple.

[kelkel]

I know.

Afternoon G!

[steroid.com 1]

Good call with Nelson today, will touch base with you later.