TRT candidate?

**2Sox** · 10-16-2014, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Noose

Sorry, I forgot to mention that he doubled my dose from 100mg E2W to 200mg E2W, but still doesn't want me to split it in half and take weekly.

Well, you just be a good boy and follow the doctor's orders. Never mind what's good for you. (I'm sure you know I'm being a little sarcastic....to make a point - and I hope you take no offense.) It amazes me sometimes how so many people view doctors almost as if they were priests who cannot be disobeyed. Anyway, at least he's giving you a sensible dose now.

If you know that T Cyp has a half life and by day nine or so, you'll be feeling like shite, why would you accept this? It makes no sense. And HE SHOULD KNOW THIS. I would advise that you get the vial and start self injecting the way you ought to. And if you really want to feel better, do 50mg twice a week. And please keep have him keep an eye on your E2.

**1979 Trans Am** · 10-16-2014, 08:22 PM

Man - that absolutely stinks that he "assumes" you have a tumor due to low levels. Yeah, that's a bit of a mind bender right there, sorry to hear that. I'm sure it's not that.

Let us know the outcome...

**Beethoven** · 10-16-2014, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Well, you just be a good boy and follow the doctor's orders. Never mind what's good for you. (I'm sure you know I'm being a little sarcastic....to make a point - and I hope you take no offense.) It amazes me sometimes how so many people view doctors almost as if they were priests who cannot be disobeyed. Anyway, at least he's giving you a sensible dose now.

If you know that T Cyp has a half life and by day nine or so, you'll be feeling like shite, why would you accept this? It makes no sense. And HE SHOULD KNOW THIS. I would advise that you get the vial and start self injecting the way you ought to. And if you really want to feel better, do 50mg twice a week. And please keep have him keep an eye on your E2.

I love when 2sox gets sarcastic.

You should take his advice, it's a good one.

**The Noose** · 10-16-2014, 09:35 PM

Definitely no offense taken. I have a bit of a sarcastic wit too :-)
and I totally agree that most people blindly think that Dr's can walk on water in all instances. I am confident that he is wrong. I am going to inject 100mg/week and see how that works. He wont know the difference anyway and I will still be consumkng the test at his rate - in other words, the bottle won't get empty faster. My real fear is this pituatary tumor theory. Are there other, more plausable, explanations for rapidly decreasing and super low testosterone and such low Lh? .3 seems like a seriously low number. I have practiced my google-foo all night and have found nothing comforting yet

**bullshark99** · 10-17-2014, 04:30 AM

When was BW taken, what day? Remember yor natty is now shut down....sorry to lazy to re-read everything but that's the problem with 2 week intervals with shots, by the end of second week you are running on fumes.
Regarding tuner, relax bro take a step back. I think Kel has some experience here if I'm not mistaken.

**Chauffeur** · 10-17-2014, 06:07 AM

Was your labs drawn after you started your injections? If so, that would explain the low LH.

**Beethoven** · 10-17-2014, 07:41 AM

Good thinking noose, remember to do your BW the day of your next shot before your shot.

**Low Testosterone** · 10-17-2014, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Noose

OK guys. I just went to Dr. today for BW results. They weren't good. My Test has dropped again from 158 in July to 140 in Sept to 94 in October. Why is it falling so fast in such a short period of time?
Here were the results from Labcorp:
Testosterone Serum 94 348-1197
Free Testosterone 3.1 6.8 - 21.5
Lh .3 1.7 - 8.6

Everything else was fine.
He said that since my test levels had actually decreased despite having injected 100mg of test cyp, coupled with the rate od decrease (158 to 94 in 2.5 months), along with my abnormally low Lh that I may have a tumor affecting my pituitary gland! Holy shi$! Is he kidding? I am supposed to go have a scan next week to verify this. I thought this was a stressful process before, but now I'm freaking out. Thoughts, theories, experiences? Anything for me to research or hold on to?

Your LH is not abnormally low. When you take exogenous testosterone, your LH is always going to be low. In most blood test it will come back as 0.2-0.3. Remember, testosterone suppresses the production of LH and FSH.

As far as your levels, there are always going to be issues with one injection twice a week. I would try to find a new doctor.

**Lifted1** · 10-17-2014, 10:04 PM

If your doctor thinks you have a tumor because you have low LH while on trt and low levels on 100mg/e2w he is a moron. Depending on what day you drew bloods after your injection, your numbers aren't surprising...couple that without hcg in your protocol and you now have a poorly planned program.

If you have the testosterone with you and do your own injections, I would highly suggest splitting the 200mg/e2w into 100mg/wk at minimum. I highly doubt a doctor with as little current protocol knowledge as he has will prescribe you hcg, but you might consider sourcing some and implement 500iu/wk split into two 250iu shots.

**Beethoven** · 10-18-2014, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by The Noose

Sorry, I forgot to mention that he doubled my dose from 100mg E2W to 200mg E2W, but still doesn't want me to split it in half and take weekly.

Noose, what was your actual protocol at the time of testing, also what day in the cycle did you have your BW done?

**The Noose** · 10-18-2014, 09:58 AM

Thanks for the responses guys. I was really starting to sweat when he said that in such a matter of fact tone. You guys have put my mind at ease - genuinely thank you for that. I pinned this morning and will continue to do 100mg every Saturday morning. As soon as I get my post count up, I will inquire about the getting the HCG on my own. Oh, also forgot to mention that I up another 3 lbs. That is a total increase of 7lbs since my first BW. I think cutting my calories anymore would be worse, but can't really exercise anymore than I have. My lifts have not come up at all and my bench has dropped 10lbs since the end of July. Argghh.

Also forgot to mention that I am using a 1" needle in the glute area. My Dr. recommends the quad. Any opinions on which is better or if the needle is the right length?

**Chauffeur** · 10-18-2014, 12:02 PM

I can't recall, did you ever have your LH ans FSH measured before TRT? Or just the recent labs done after you started?

**Beethoven** · 10-18-2014, 08:54 PM

Noose, if you're pinning 100 mg a week you should be fine. Make sure your next BW is on a Saturday morning before you pin. It also takes a little time to reap the full benefits of TRT.

**2Sox** · 10-19-2014, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by The Noose

Also forgot to mention that I am using a 1" needle in the glute area. My Dr. recommends the quad. Any opinions on which is better or if the needle is the right length?

Be adventurous and buy a package of 1/2 inch, 29 gauge insulin syringes and pin SQ in the abdominal area. Break your dose up any way you like but do it more often than once a week - twice at a minimum. You'll cut down on aromatization and feel much better in general - and it's painless. You'll love it.

**Beethoven** · 10-19-2014, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Be adventurous and buy a package of 1/2 inch, 29 gauge insulin syringes and pin SQ in the abdominal area. Break your dose up any way you like but do it more often than once a week - twice at a minimum. You'll cut down on aromatization and feel much better in general - and it's painless. You'll love it.

This is so true.

**OingoBoingo** · 10-19-2014, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by The Noose

Thanks for the responses guys. I was really starting to sweat when he said that in such a matter of fact tone. You guys have put my mind at ease - genuinely thank you for that. I pinned this morning and will continue to do 100mg every Saturday morning. As soon as I get my post count up, I will inquire about the getting the HCG on my own. Oh, also forgot to mention that I up another 3 lbs. That is a total increase of 7lbs since my first BW. I think cutting my calories anymore would be worse, but can't really exercise anymore than I have. My lifts have not come up at all and my bench has dropped 10lbs since the end of July. Argghh.

Also forgot to mention that I am using a 1" needle in the glute area. My Dr. recommends the quad. Any opinions on which is better or if the needle is the right length?

I wouldn't worry so much about weight gain just yet. Shortly after starting TRT I gained a quick 7 pounds while losing a couple notches on my belt. I figured with a little Testosterone my muscles are more efficient at sucking up water and glycogen. Also, I seem to be retaining some water, but in my case it does look like I'm losing fat.

You've been on quite a roller-coaster if you've been injecting 200mg every two weeks. Smaller, more frequent injections (such as 100mg once per week, or 50mg twice per week) should have you feeling much better.

I use a BD Ultra-Fine II U-100 Insulin syringe, with a 30g, 5/16" (8mm) needle, and inject subcutaneously. I might carry a little extra body fat around my abdomen, and found that pinning my thighs subcutaneously to be more effective for me.

Read on a bodybuilding forum that stubborn fat is stubborn because there are fewer blood vessels in the area. Don't know if that's true, but won't go back to pinning my abdomen after pinning thighs.

Try it; you'll like it!

**The Noose** · 10-23-2014, 12:36 AM

Thanks guys. No, I never had anything other than total and free test checked before I started. He gave me one 100mg shot in his office. Two weeks later I went to Labcorp in the morning and gave blood then went home and took my second 100mg injection. I have since (twice now) started 100mg injections every Saturday morning. I have noticed zero changes in mood, physique, strength, libido, morning erections, or general well being. I know its a marathon and not a sprint - just impatient. I'm going to inject another 100mg this Saturday and then may start injecting 50mg every Wed and Sat. I'm fully willing to do what is needed, but don't want to feel like a pin cushion if I don't have to.

**2Sox** · 10-23-2014, 06:04 AM

OB,
What difference between thigh and abdomen do you feel?

Noose,
If you do like OB and others suggest - pin SQ - you won't feel like a "pin cushion".

**The Noose** · 12-09-2014, 01:48 AM

Just a quick update. I did BW in November and the results were;
Testosterone , serum 269 (348 - 1197)
Free testosterone. . 5.3. (6.8 - 21.5)

My nipples were sensitive for a couple of weeks and really sensitive for 5 or 6 days. Other than that, there have been no indications that anything is changing. I have put on another 6 pounds of fat, still feel like shit, have no energy, depressed, don't get as hard of erections as normal, and still have trouble orgasming.
I will admit my diet went back to pretty crappy and my workouts went from 6/week to every once in a while. Not trying to be a baby or have unrealistic expectations, but damn. Eating clean, weights and light cardio netted me an additional 12 pounds and not a single freakin increase in my lifts...not even 10lbs on the bench - nothing.
I take 100mg test cyp IM once per week. I have another appointment next week and i'm sure he will up my dose. Also, I have a brain scan right after christmas to rule out a tumor or pituatary lesion.
At least the numbers are starting to move in the right direction. I know this is a marathon and not a sprint, but damn something...please!

**bullshark99** · 12-09-2014, 05:02 AM

Hey man I'm rooting for you! But pull your head out of your backside.... Your poor diet and lack of physical activity will lead to everything you just explained and you know it. You get to experience first hand that pinning T alone does NOT turn people into animals.
Stay focused Bro, dig deep! Start now! Don't use the holidays for a free pass or on the 1st your gonna be that much worse off and just like all these other poor saps you see every year in the gym for all of 3 weeks before they quit.
Also, yes your dose needs to increase if you are still at below clinical range values. Good luck!

**Beethoven** · 12-09-2014, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by bullshark99

Hey man I'm rooting for you! But pull your head out of your backside.... Your poor diet and lack of physical activity will lead to everything you just explained and you know it. You get to experience first hand that pinning T alone does NOT turn people into animals.
Stay focused Bro, dig deep! Start now! Don't use the holidays for a free pass or on the 1st your gonna be that much worse off and just like all these other poor saps you see every year in the gym for all of 3 weeks before they quit.
Also, yes your dose needs to increase if you are still at below clinical range values. Good luck!

Very true. Besides it takes about four weeks for you to start feeling the effects, longer to get back to normal. Proper nutrition and workouts will do the rest but you have to get in there. TRT is not a magic bullet, it requires some work on your part. Keep at it.

**Baxter35** · 12-09-2014, 08:44 AM

What did your doctor say about those latest results? Was your dose increased? Don't get discouraged, you obviously haven't found your effective dose yet and it may even take a few more weeks/months of trial and error to get there but once you find your sweet spot you will feel better. Also food for thought, I read somewhere that you were pinning the glutes with a 1" needle. Based on your size, 1" may not be enough to make it into the muscle and you may be inadvertently pinning sub q. Nothing at all wrong with sub q, but I've heard a few references that it can take a little longer for levels to build up on sub q. Either way, you may have a few more things to sort out, but stick with it and best wishes. Keep us posted.

**Beethoven** · 12-09-2014, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Baxter35

What did your doctor say about those latest results? Was your dose increased? Don't get discouraged, you obviously haven't found your effective dose yet and it may even take a few more weeks/months of trial and error to get there but once you find your sweet spot you will feel better. Also food for thought, I read somewhere that you were pinning the glutes with a 1" needle. Based on your size, 1" may not be enough to make it into the muscle and you may be inadvertently pinning sub q. Nothing at all wrong with sub q, but I've heard a few references that it can take a little longer for levels to build up on sub q. Either way, you may have a few more things to sort out, but stick with it and best wishes. Keep us posted.

It took me a good six months to get fully dialed in. Patience.

**OingoBoingo** · 01-07-2015, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

OB,
What difference between thigh and abdomen do you feel?

When I first started, I injected hCG without Testosterone . I noticed that when pinning thighs, the hCG hit me much quicker, and a little more than when I injected into my belly. My guess is that it has to do with fewer blood vessels in belly fat, than in thigh fat.

The actual feeling I got was a sense of well-being that would wash over me. Might have been the hCG kicking in the Pregnenolone.

It was enough to convince me to stick with the thighs.

**ChrisG217** · 01-09-2015, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Beethoven

It took me a good six months to get fully dialed in. Patience.

Same for me, I love it! Test level is at 921 according to last blood work. Estro is like less than 5 though, I gotta cut down on the anastrazole.

**hawk14dl** · 01-09-2015, 12:14 PM

Inform your doctor you also need to treat estradiol (sensitive). Testosterone converts to estradiol,especially at a higher body fat %

**Motardpdx** · 01-09-2015, 06:10 PM

Focus on your BW and talk with a Dr that is TRT educated. Read the stickies and the TRT forum is the best resource and will answer all your hearts desires. enjoy!