Does TRT Lead to Insanity?

[Low Testosterone]

In no other area of medicine, at least not one I can think of off hand, does the behavior of a patient in any way mirror that of a TRT patient. It's honestly somewhat unbelievable. No, this by no means applies to all or even the majority, and of course there are plenty of certifiable nuts in other areas of medicine. However, when it comes to TRT, the behavior if not crazy or insane is at a minimum often very strange.

Example 1:
TRT patients will often do all they can to rip off or take advantage of the system in order to save $10-$20 here and there, maybe more, but in the grand scheme of things it's never that much. Name me one other area of medicine where you would be this cheap with your care?

Example 2:
TRT patients will often use the phrase "I know my body." They've scoured the message boards, this or that website, etc. Their friends take this much testosterone , another guy they know takes that much and so on and so on it goes. Name one other area of medicine where you would do whatever it is you want to do and pretty much ignore your doctor and choose to listen to faceless strangers online?

Example 3:
TRT patients are often convinced and no amount of data or anything you say can change their mind, that if they befall any other ailment, sickness or anything in their life that occurs that is not perfect, if they do not feel like Superman at all times, then the treatment plan they are on must suck ass or there's something wrong with the testosterone.

Example 4:
A refusal to accept that testosterone is a Schedule III controlled substance. I understand, you want all 5 of your refills right now. I understand, you used your bottle of testosterone twice as fast as you were prescribed because you know your body and you are entitled to have another bottle immediately because you know your body. And I understand, I should write this RX immediately and continue to write them at whatever pace you deem necessary and risk my livelihood because you know your body. Please understand, there is nothing anyone at any doctors office of pharmacy can do regarding Schedule III laws and regulations. If you do not like such laws, I would highly suggest you start trying to do something about them or at minimum stop voting in people that put these in place.

Example 5:
"I was fat before I started TRT, and now after TRT I'm still fat." Honestly, I'm not even sure how to respond to this one, but it's one of the most common things I hear.

Example 6:
"My nipples were itchy so I started taking 3mg of anastrozole per week and now my penis doesn't work. I don't know what to do." Probably as common as the fat example above. Many men will destroy their hormone system out of an irrational and often impossible gynecomastia fear and no amount of blood work or calm talking can settle them down.

Example 7:
"My primary care physician said I don't need TRT." That's great, and he told you this before you came to see me, correct? Why did you come see me? Why have you undergone treatment for the last 6 months?

Example 8:
"I read online" Please stop right there. You read online or you read what some individual who could possibly be an 18yr old kid said on a message board or blog or you read online in an actual journal? Again, this isn't a knock against message boards, I actually think this is a great place to share info and there are some very smart men here. The guy kelkel, you guys are lucky to have him here. But please choose your words carefully. Think of how insulting that sounds to your doctor when you start saying things like this, or if not insulting almost idiotic.

Example 9:
"You don't accept insurance? OK, I want to use my insurance." Once again, no comment.

Example 10:
My favorite example of all time that relates directly to LowTestosterone.com - "I'm looking at your website, it says $199 per month, is that every month?" "Sir, you're looking at our website?" "Yes, I've read through the whole thing." By far our most common phone call. Sometimes you have to laugh at least a little

[kelkel]

One of "those" days LT? Check that cortisol level!

#5 is my favorite by far! I can't imagine the stories you hear.

[Low Testosterone]

Just a little healthy venting. And in my opinion, healthy venting can provide a little amusement for yourself, which is a good thing. I'm sure everyone hear has funny little things they experience in their day to day lives with whatever job it is they hold. Luckily for me there is a message board to talk about those things

[kelkel]

Absolutely true. If you haven't, you should visit the "lounge" forum here....
Still laughing about #5.

[Beethoven]

I wonder if you've been sitting in on my office visits. Lol. I'm partial to #4. C'mon man, I'm telling you I know my body and 350 mg twice a week puts me at that sweet spot .

[Low Testosterone]

Absolutely true. If you haven't, you should visit the "lounge" forum here....
Still laughing about #5.

Good ole #5 is a good one, only to be topped by "I think the testosterone is making me fat." I know I've said this on here before but it's still true, testosterone doesn't make you fat, you make you fat.

I wonder if you've been sitting in on my office visits. Lol. I'm partial to #4. C'mon man, I'm telling you I know my body and 350 mg twice a week puts me at that sweet spot .

What's often amusing is when a guy tells you something like that, he's convinced that he's the only one that's ever said it. It's like he believes he's pulling one over on everyone that no one has ever thought of before. But odds are strong his identical clone was just in here 5min ago and another will be calling 5min after he leaves. There is nothing that hasn't been said or tried. But one of my new personal favorites is "I was in Iraq so I need more testosterone than the average man."

[hawk14dl]

I DO wish you took insurance.

Just saying.

[Bonaparte]

Meh, I assume "pain management" patients are worse.

[Low Testosterone]

I DO wish you took insurance.

Just saying.

If we did that would increase the cost to our cash only clients. I know that makes no sense but you can thank the healthcare system we have for that.

[Low Testosterone]

Meh, I assume "pain management" patients are worse.

Yes and no. A pain/junkie will demand pills outright and make up a bunch of BS that no one will believe. TRT guys that are as I described above at least usually armed with a base of knowledge…often not as much as they think but at least something. And yes, there are the occasional very sharp and well-educated patients. But most are simply regurgitating what they heard from a guy at the gym though or so and so said this and he heard from his brother's cousin's neighbor sort of thing. They're also not stoned out of their minds, which can actually make them harder to deal with at times. A junkie will get fed up and go to the next outlet quick.

In short, I guess I could just say this, TRT patients are in my opinion just about the most demanding patients at times.

[Chauffeur]

None of this surprises me at all. I work in healthcare so I deal with difficult patients all the time. I wish I could pretend that most people are sane, care about their health, and treat healthcare providers with some level of respect...but that's just not the case.

LT, I think your situation is probably even more extreme than mine because you guys are providing a "luxury" service.

I'm not surprised that people are incredibly demanding of you, insult your intelligence, and try to "game the system" to get more for less.

Obviously not all people are like this, but it's more prevalent than most would like to admit. It must be quite frustrating to spend your time fending off the assholes and abusers.

I'm not sure what the point of my post is, perhaps just venting along with you...but it's really just to say "thanks" for doing what you do.

For many of us, LowT.com, and you specifically, have helped us when nobody else would. You haven't taken your frustrations with the shit heads out on those of us who legitimately needed help. Just wanted to tell you how much I/we appreciate that.

[lovbyts]

Yes and no. A pain/junkie will demand pills outright and make up a bunch of BS that no one will believe. TRT guys that are as I described above at least usually armed with a base of knowledge…often not as much as they think but at least something. And yes, there are the occasional very sharp and well-educated patients. But most are simply regurgitating what they heard from a guy at the gym though or so and so said this and he heard from his brother's cousin's neighbor sort of thing. They're also not stoned out of their minds, which can actually make them harder to deal with at times. A junkie will get fed up and go to the next outlet quick.

In short, I guess I could just say this, TRT patients are in my opinion just about the most demanding patients at times.

hahaha, I can relate with this. I have a pain management doctor I have been seeing for about 3 years due to 2 back surgeries and one shoulder surgery plus quite a few years of beating myself up.

My doctor and her co workers I have seen when she is out all say they LOVE me, I'm their favorite patient because I have NEVER asked for more and in fact I have cut things out and requested less over time.

I'm curious about Example #1, how are some of these people trying to do to save $10-$20?

Example #2 I can sort of understand because there are so many doctors who are uneducated about TRT but instead of arguing with a doctor I would personally just find a specialist or TRT clinic.

The rest, yup you just have to LOL or go crazy.

[Low Testosterone]

None of this surprises me at all. I work in healthcare so I deal with difficult patients all the time. I wish I could pretend that most people are sane, care about their health, and treat healthcare providers with some level of respect...but that's just not the case.

LT, I think your situation is probably even more extreme than mine because you guys are providing a "luxury" service.

I'm not surprised that people are incredibly demanding of you, insult your intelligence, and try to "game the system" to get more for less.

Obviously not all people are like this, but it's more prevalent than most would like to admit. It must be quite frustrating to spend your time fending off the assholes and abusers.

I'm not sure what the point of my post is, perhaps just venting along with you...but it's really just to say "thanks" for doing what you do.

For many of us, LowT.com, and you specifically, have helped us when nobody else would. You haven't taken your frustrations with the shit heads out on those of us who legitimately needed help. Just wanted to tell you how much I/we appreciate that.

You're absolutely right, most of the people are great, most of the patients are great, and I can only speak for LowT (well I could speak about other companies, clinics, etc. but I won't) we do everything we can to make things as easy and as convenient as humanly possible. Unfortunately, it's never good enough for some people. And it's a constant fight, one that's never ending. Think about it - you have new laws and regulations being passed down every day, law suites and ambulance chasers sniffing at every door and around every corner and then to top it off, you have a man dog cussing you because you gave him a 25g needle instead of a 23g. Or you have a patient threatening to sue because the doctor you sent him to wouldn't help him plan out his diet and obviously doesn't care about his health. Or maybe he's demanding you give him all his money back because he has acne and you refuse to write him an RX for 7mg of anastrozle per week, which he read online somewhere is the cure for TRT acne…oh, and BTW, if you would go ahead and write my testosterone and HCG refill after you refund my money. It never ends, lol!

All of that said, despite the venting, again most of the guys are great and I wouldn't do what I do if that weren't the case. I enjoy it - I'm a believer in TRT. It took me 8yrs to talk my father into it and he's a believer now too after year and a half of treatment. I certainly wouldn't have my own father doing it if I didn't believe in it.

Chauffeur, thank you for the kind words

[Low Testosterone]

hahaha, I can relate with this. I have a pain management doctor I have been seeing for about 3 years due to 2 back surgeries and one shoulder surgery plus quite a few years of beating myself up.

My doctor and her co workers I have seen when she is out all say they LOVE me, I'm their favorite patient because I have NEVER asked for more and in fact I have cut things out and requested less over time.

I'm curious about Example #1, how are some of these people trying to do to save $10-$20?

Example #2 I can sort of understand because there are so many doctors who are uneducated about TRT but instead of arguing with a doctor I would personally just find a specialist or TRT clinic.

The rest, yup you just have to LOL or go crazy.

Example 1:
Maybe their dose was cut down 10-20mg per week (testosterone ) and by their math this should mean their bill is $10 less. Or maybe it took the lab an extra day to populate their results, as such they should get $20 back but should still get the results. Or maybe they'd like an RX for Cialis, but if you would, just go ahead and throw that in there "I don't want to pay for it."

Example 2:
This has more to do with conversations like this "bro, you need to drop that doctor. If you're not getting 300mg a week that's a ripoff." Or "I'm not feeling it, so I upped my dose on my own. I know my body." Or my favorite, "I heard my nipples make a sound last night when I was in bed so I took two extra AI's this week." OK fine, no one's ever said that, but I'm still waiting on the day they do, lol!

[lovbyts]

Example #1 hahahaha really? Wow, I would never have thought of any of those things. I think some people are just cheap fvcks. Hmm I guess I know a few people like that. lol Still I think it's more of a personality thing and would bet they are that way about everything.

Example #2 OK I get you and yeah the more is not better attitude is hard to get through to some meat heads. Yeah also on the feeling like superman comment. I try to explain to people by example, do you think superman feels super? He probably just feels normal. You get use to a feeling and that doesn't mean it's gone. Just like a drug addict is always trying to chase the high; dont do it.

hahaha you had me with the nipples made a sound. I had to read that one 3x before I made it to the no one's ever said that, but still waiting on the day they do.

[Simon1972]

Dammn!!!...I am about to front up for my next appointment, and was planning on asking for an AI....

[Low Testosterone]

Example #1 hahahaha really? Wow, I would never have thought of any of those things. I think some people are just cheap fvcks. Hmm I guess I know a few people like that. lol Still I think it's more of a personality thing and would bet they are that way about everything.

Example #2 OK I get you and yeah the more is not better attitude is hard to get through to some meat heads. Yeah also on the feeling like superman comment. I try to explain to people by example, do you think superman feels super? He probably just feels normal. You get use to a feeling and that doesn't mean it's gone. Just like a drug addict is always trying to chase the high; dont do it.

hahaha you had me with the nipples made a sound. I had to read that one 3x before I made it to the no one's ever said that, but still waiting on the day they do.

True, people that try to play a cheap game like that probably do so in a lot of areas of their life. For some reason though a lot of people expect even demand that all medical issues of any type be covered and treated under their TRT program, especially if it's hormone or sex related at all. Some tend to have a hard time separating these things out in their heads. You can have great testosterone levels and still have erectile dysfunction, you can have great testosterone levels and still have a thyroid issue. But many cannot or will not accept this.

I like the superman example, that's a good one. I might have to borrow it from you. A lot of people do expect some type of feeling, a high or euphoric feeling that does not exist. I blame this on how we typically view drugs and how we typically associate "a feeling" with drugs. In my opinion, hormones should not be classified with all other drugs, they should at minimum be their own subcategory or more accurately their entire category outside of other drugs. Think about it, the very definition of a drug is to create a reaction that the body could never create without it. Hormones do not meet this definition.

[bullshark99]

LT, your awesome brother, stay strong! Nothing wrong with venting. As a comparison, I am a certified financial planner, 20 plus yrs exp.
I love when people come to me and say, " I saw a commercial from E-trade, they will return my fees if I have 2 bad quarters" hahaha, define what 2 bad quarters is????
Or, " I read in money magazine" enough said LOL.........

[Low Testosterone]

LT, your awesome brother, stay strong! Nothing wrong with venting. As a comparison, I am a certified financial planner, 20 plus yrs exp.
I love when people come to me and say, " I saw a commercial from E-trade, they will return my fees if I have 2 bad quarters" hahaha, define what 2 bad quarters is????
Or, " I read in money magazine" enough said LOL.........

I hear you, I'm sure my venting crosses over into plenty other areas. The problem, there are no facts or truths anymore, not since the internet. The internet is the single greatest and worst thing ever invented all at the same time. You can find anything to backup what you want to believe or want to do. Facts? When it comes to TRT, who needs facts? I can find a registered Brofessional to back up every word I'm saying, and just look, look at his gains, lol! I'm sure finances are the same "well I heard Warren Buffet say on 60min..." fill in the blank.

But at least it's not politics. That has to be the worse no fact zone on earth right now. Believe what you want and it will be true

[Metalject]

I'm pretty sure being human leads to insanity for most people.
I'm pretty sure these are the patients you're talking about - in fact, this is pretty much America now, at least pretty damn close:

[Low Testosterone]

My goodness, just thought of another one. Not sure how I forgot and left this one out.

Patient - My GP (PCP, Family doctor, etc) won't help me with my low testosterone , he won't prescribe anything/he won't even test my levels.
Patient then begins treatment, somewhere in the next 4-12months he informs you the following "I need to discontinue my TRT immediately." My response "sure, no problem - are there any issues or is there anything I can help you with?" Their response "My GP says I shouldn't be on testosterone ."

Now if anyone can make the above make sense, please feel free to try.

I swear to you, TRT patients are typically their own worst enemy.

[lovbyts]

I think it's not TRT leading to patients insanity but it's TRT patients leading to your insanity. lol

God you just have to love how stupid people can be and some how think it makes sense or maybe your forgot what they told you in the 1st place. What do you wana bet he will be back (if not to you to someone else) in 6 months trying to get on TRT again?

Before my mother passed away from Pancreatic cancer I started going with her to the doctors. She was a TERRIBLE patient. She would have this long list of what was wrong and how she was feeling before we would go and when she got there and the doctor asked how she felt and what has changed she would say she felt OK and nothing changed... WTF?? After the first couple of visit the doctor just started asking me. lol

I blame my mom 100% for her cancer not being diagnosed earlier. She said she told the doctor she was loosing weigh about 2 years ago but didnt say she wasn't trying and never brought it up again. Also she mentioned she had some stomach cramps but again never brought it up again.

Like you said, patients are their worse enemy.

Keep coming with the stories, they are great.

[bartman314]

ok with the venting... what are some of the positives you've seen?

[Low Testosterone]

I think it's not TRT leading to patients insanity but it's TRT patients leading to your insanity. lol

LOL, you might be right!
Anyway, I'll post some more up as they come to mind.

[Low Testosterone]

ok with the venting... what are some of the positives you've seen?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean as in the time a patient said something amazing? If so, sorry it's never happened. Sure, some patients are pretty smart and know a good deal about TRT. But as I've said many times, TRT is not a remarkably complex topic. In fact, it's probably one of the simplest aspects of all medicine despite many physicians acting like it's pandora's box. Anyway, I may be completely missing what you're asking for. If you're looking for testimonials, sure we have those. You can go to our website and see those. They're all as real as real can be - simply real patients explaining and sharing their experience.

[LFH40]

I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean as in the time a patient said something amazing? If so, sorry it's never happened. Sure, some patients are pretty smart and know a good deal about TRT. But as I've said many times, TRT is not a remarkably complex topic. In fact, it's probably one of the simplest aspects of all medicine despite many physicians acting like it's pandora's box. Anyway, I may be completely missing what you're asking for. If you're looking for testimonials, sure we have those. You can go to our website and see those. They're all as real as real can be - simply real patients explaining and sharing their experience.

I absolutely love the service. I listen to the reps and the doc, and yes, there's room for improvement for my feeling great, but it's a work I progress. I let the professionals guide me and make no snap decisions on my own. LowTestosterone.com has been a life saver. Hope they never go anywhere. I'm in this for life!😃