Too much weight gain (fat) on TRT

[dadroxx]

I've been on Axi topical gel for 2.5 months. Using 120 every day as prescribed by endo. T is now 425, standard range is 348-1197. I'm 44.

My habits have stayed exactly the same before starting TRT but I've gone from 220 to 242lbs. The weight all happened in the first month and had stabilized for the past month. Gain may be some muscle but it seems to be more fat to me. I've gone up a notch on all my weights but jogging has been difficult b/c of the weight gain.

Breakfast: Frosted mini wheats and adding granola for more protein
Lunch: Tuna on crackers
Workout: 3-4x days/week: 15 mins jogging and 45 mins weights. Protein shake after workout
Snack: Yogurt w/granola
Dinner: Small portion of steak, chicken or fish. Veggies, a starch and glass of milk

One multi-vitamin everyday.

I've been tracking calories closely and I'm around 2100 every day. 140g protein. 280 carbs. 85g sugar. 85g fat.

Any suggestions on how I can get more lean?

Many thanks.

[Moonjumper]

Start by doubling your protein and decrease your carbs. You should be doing at least a gram of protein per body weight daily at a minimum. Decrease your sugar intake as well. If you are dead set on yogurt for snacks and meals, switch to Greek style.

And I'll now step aside for the experts to give much better advice.

[Baxter35]

Have you had E2 checked? Elevated E2 can contribute to water retention and could be part of the quick weight gain.

[jasondd1]

Can't be fat just can't be but your test levels don't show to even be high enough for normal let alone converting to estrogen but get your e2 sensitive tested anyway and get off that topical gel you are not absorbing it.

[2Sox]

The only formula that works: Reduce calorie intake, increase calorie expenditure. You've got to go out there and do some cardio or at lease some walking. It doesn't really take much. The hardest part of exercising is getting out the door.

Most who go on TRT, begin to see fat loss from many parts of their bodies within the first year. Give it some time...and discipline. 2.5 months? Jeez, you're just getting started!

[dadroxx]

That's all great advice. Ty

[Simon1972]

fat or water weight? trt will fill in your muscle and give you a fuller look just on its own, could be a cumulation of muscle and water, i doubt its fat.

if you want to get lean- go low carb, start converting your breakfast to scrambled eggs and bacon . leave out the toast.

no carbs = no energy source. \
Your body needs energy, so it will use fat and protein as an energy source as long as your protein levels and fats are high enough.
Your body will develop the enzymes to break down fats for energy and any energy requirements not covered by your food intake will be supplied by your subcutaneous fat via your new freindly fat burning enzymes.

You dont have to remove carbs completly- just be mindful of how much carbs you are eating.

[SlimmerMe]

Breakfast: Frosted sugar mini wheats and adding granola sugar? for more protein
Lunch: Tuna on crackers hmmm
Workout: 3-4x days/week: 15 mins up to at least 25 minutes jogging and 45 mins weights. Protein shake after workout
Snack: Yogurt w/granola what kind of yogurt? and what's in the granola?
Dinner: Small portion of steak, chicken or fish. Veggies, a starch like what? and glass of milk

One multi-vitamin everyday.

I've been tracking calories closely and I'm around 2100 every day. 140g protein. 280 carbs. 85g sugar too high. 85g fat.

Any suggestions on how I can get more lean? YES- read below

Many thanks.

Come on over the food section and the food gurus will get you straight–– even if it's baby steps. A bit here and a bit there can make all the difference in the world.

See ya there.

SM

[SlimmerMe]

^^ ps: here's the link

DIET AND NUTRITION

[jasondd1]

No offense to the guys mentioning diet but the guy put on 22 pounds in a month on 2100 calories a day. Diet will help him of course but that's not the problem here. My guess is water the real question is why. E2 is the most likely answer but with his low test numbers that seems odd. I'd get full bloods including e2 sensitive

[Beethoven]

I have gained also on trt. Although mine is mostly diet, I have gained much more muscle. My clothes still fit the way they did. 20 pounds in a month is water mostly but there is probably some muscle. I try not to use the scale rather do a body composition or body fat test and you'll know for sure.

[kelkel]

I assume you've had blood work since starting. Post it please.
Next assumption is that the T level you posted is a trough level, correct?

[dadroxx]

I had blood work on Friday and will post it as soon as it's available to me.

I saw a lot of comments about water weight and I think you are correct. Some of the weight gain is muscle too because I can tell i have more muscle mass and my weights have certainly gone up. So, a combination of water and muscle is likely the answer to the weight.

[Baxter35]

Everybody reacts differently, but I personally experienced a lot of water retention in my first few months of trt as well. If I recall correctly, I put on around 30 pounds in the first two months. For me, I got it under control by watching E2 very closely, cutting sodium intake, and staying hydrated. My E2 has never registered out of range, but even when in range an increase of only 4-5 points seemed to correlate with noticeable water retention. All of that has gone away now that I'm a couple years in my body seems to have adjusted to its new hormone levels.

[dadroxx]

Everybody reacts differently, but I personally experienced a lot of water retention in my first few months of trt as well. If I recall correctly, I put on around 30 pounds in the first two months. For me, I got it under control by watching E2 very closely, cutting sodium intake, and staying hydrated. My E2 has never registered out of range, but even when in range an increase of only 4-5 points seemed to correlate with noticeable water retention. All of that has gone away now that I'm a couple years in my body seems to have adjusted to its new hormone levels.

This sounds like me. It's good to hear the weight gain is likely water weight. I just got my blood work back and I'll post it soon.

[dadroxx]

Here are the blood work results I received this week. Doesn't look like my E2 was tested. Any recommendations related to my numbers would be appreciated.

43 y/o. 6'-2", 240 lbs. Using Axi gel for 2.5 months. I started off with 2 pumps every morning, and that brought my total T to 404. Endo bumped me to 3 pumps and now I'm at 576.

Testosterone , Serum (Total) 576 ng/dL 348 - 1197 ng/dL
PSA 1.6 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0 ng/mL
Glucose 97 mg/dL 65 - 99 mg/dL
BUN 13 mg/dL 6 - 24 mg/dL
Creatinine 0.99 mg/dL 0.76 - 1.27 mg/dL
eGFR Non-African American 93 mL/min/1.73 >59 mL/min/1.73
eGFR, African American 107 mL/min/1.73 >59 mL/min/1.73
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 13 9 - 20
Sodium 141 mmol/L 134 - 144 mmol/L
Potassium 4.8 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.2 mmol/L
Chloride 101 mmol/L 97 - 108 mmol/L
CO2 28 mmol/L 18 - 29 mmol/L
Calcium 9.4 mg/dL 8.7 - 10.2 mg/dL
Total Protein 6.9 g/dL 6.0 - 8.5 g/dL
Albumin 4.6 g/dL 3.5 - 5.5 g/dL
Globulin, Total 2.3 g/dL 1.5 - 4.5 g/dL
Albumin/Globulin Ratio 2.0 1.1 - 2.5
Total Bilirubin 0.6 mg/dL 0.0 - 1.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase 57 IU/L 39 - 117 IU/L
AST (SGOT) 34 IU/L 0 - 40 IU/L
ALT 49 IU/L 0 - 44 IU/L
Cholesterol 228 mg/dL 100 - 199 mg/dL
Triglycerides 154 mg/dL 0 - 149 mg/dL
HDL 33 mg/dL >39 mg/dL
According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered a
negative risk factor for CHD.
VLDL Calc 31 mg/dL 5 - 40 mg/dL
Sum Total LDL-C 164 mg/dL 0 - 99 mg/dL
TSH 1.270 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500 uIU/mL
WBC 6.6 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 x10E3/uL
RBC 5.77 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 16.6 g/dL 12.6 - 17.7 g/dL
Hematocrit 49.0 % 37.5 - 51.0 %
MCV 85 fL 79 - 97 fL
Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin 28.8 pg 26.6 - 33.0 pg
MCHC 33.9 g/dL 31.5 - 35.7 g/dL
RDW 14.1 % 12.3 - 15.4 %
Platelet Count 269 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 x10E3/uL
Neutrophils 57 %
Lymphocytes, % 29 %
Monocytes 11 %
EOSINOPHILS, % 3 %
Basos Relative 0 %
Neutrophils Absolute 3.8 x10E3/uL 1.4 - 7.0 x10E3/uL
Lymphocytes Absolute 1.9 x10E3/uL 0.7 - 3.1 x10E3/uL
Monocytes Absolute 0.7 x10E3/uL 0.1 - 0.9 x10E3/uL
Eos (Absolute Value) 0.2 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.4 x10E3/uL
Baso # 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.2 x10E3/uL
Immature Granulocytes 0 %
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.1 x10E3/uL

[kelkel]

Keep an eye on your H & H.
576 TT as a trough level looks good.
Need to know your free T as this is what works for you.

E2 Sensitive is important to obtain. If you're in the states take a look at discounted labs or private md labs to obtain your own. Discounted is currently the cheapest I believe. Not all states allow self-testing so check into it.

[thisAngelBites]

Were you fasting when these bloods were drawn?

[dadroxx]

Were you fasting when these bloods were drawn?

Yeah, I fasted. What are your thoughts?

[SlimmerMe]

re: Glucose 97 mg/dL 65 - 99 mg/dL

^^^ Since on the higher end, you might add A1C to your upcoming BW list. No worries, but simply for a baseline.

SM

[thisAngelBites]

In my view, you're eating too many carbs and getting insulin resistant. Your triglycerides and blood glucose reflect this. I assume you're in the US, where 97 mg/dL is still considered normal bc technically, that is still probably normal for a group of healthy-appearing US people, who (not being nasty, just descriptive) probably are at least slightyl overweight and developing insulin-resistance as a norm. In Europe or Scandinavia you would definitely be considered in the early stages of metabolic disease.

If you want to make changes, I would suggest you go over to the nutrition forum, and someone there can tell you what your optimum amount of protein intake is, and that you make sure you get that, every day, and up your seafood intake (everyone is deficient in DHA, on my view). Make up the rest of your caloric requirement with non-grain carbs (or very few, whole grain carbs, like rice instead of wheat based stuff) and up your intake of healthy fats. Eat a lot of green veg. You'll feel more sated, and you can start to turn around the metabolic issues. Especially switch to a proper breakfast (I don't even eat those grainy breakfasts anymore and now often have salmon, eggs and miso soup for breakfast and I feel so much better than with things like granola).

[ks1234]

A lot of people are really getting onto you about your diet. While your diet isn't stellar, it's not terrible. If anything I would increase your protein intake a bit but nowhere near 1g per pound of bodyweight as some have suggested. There's absolutely no need for that unless you're an elite athlete or trying to get shredded.
You do take in a fair amount of sugar but still, it's not really that bad
I went through the SAME thing when I started trt. My first month i put on a little weight but then month 2 and 3 I BLEW up. It was ridiculous. I felt terrible and thought of stopping trt because I was getting so fat.
Anyway, my estrogen was the problem. It wasn't even that bad... maybe 34 I think on a sensitive test but as soon as I started arimidex , I pissed all day long and woke up looking completely different the next day and within 2 weeks was back to normal and felt 100x better.

[Simon1972]

i have to agree with the girls- your trycglicerides are way too high.

cut out carbs and delete sugar. focus on that alone and you will flourish.
get on the paleo bandwagon.
Long term, you are looking at diabetes if you dont.

[jasondd1]

Your diet is not way out of whack. you might look to bring carbs closer to protein but paleo isn't necessary. paleo is just a buzz word for hipsters that don't really understand nutrition just like cross fit, Pabst blue Ribbon beer, handle bar mustaches, skinny jeans, and finger shoes.

[Simon1972]

Your diet is not way out of whack. you might look to bring carbs closer to protein but paleo isn't necessary. paleo is just a buzz word for hipsters that don't really understand nutrition just like cross fit, Pabst blue Ribbon beer, handle bar mustaches, skinny jeans, and finger shoes.

tsk tsk

[ks1234]

tsk tsk

He's totally right though. Lol

[Simon1972]

He's totally right though. Lol

what about? are you saying that the high amount of sugar in his diet is not contributing to his obesity?

[ks1234]

what about? are you saying that the high amount of sugar in his diet is not contributing to his obesity?

No. I'm saying that is not the culprit for his substantial weight gain since starting trt.

Also I'm saying that it couldn't hurt to lower his sugar intake down a little bit and bring his protein up a little but he doesn't need anything drastically changed

[Simon1972]

No. I'm saying that is not the culprit for his substantial weight gain since starting trt.

Also I'm saying that it couldn't hurt to lower his sugar intake down a little bit and bring his protein up a little but he doesn't need anything drastically changed

Breakfast: Frosted sugar mini wheats and adding granola sugar? for more protein
Lunch: Tuna on crackers hmmm
Workout: 3-4x days/week: 15 mins up to at least 25 minutes jogging and 45 mins weights. Protein shake after workout
Snack: Yogurt w/granola what kind of yogurt? and what's in the granola?
Dinner: Small portion of steak, chicken or fish. Veggies, a starch like what? and glass of milk

One multi-vitamin everyday.

I've been tracking calories closely and I'm around 2100 every day. 140g protein. 280 carbs. 85g sugar too high. 85g fat.


the above is a breakdown of his energey uptake with edits by SlimmerME, also his tryglicerides are over the range 154 (0-149)- tryclicerides are a measurement of the Fat content of your blood. He is over- he has too much fat

from his own tracking -he states his energy uptake is 280carbs+85 Sugar+85fat =450g of energy vs 140gms of protein.( i wouldnt be surprised if its higher that that as most underestimate the hidden sugars in their foods.

when you eat that much carb your body wont use fat as an energy sourcem and sugar you eat gets used as a energy souce before carbs, any excess turns into----wait for it--- fat!.

look back at his tryclicerides- his blood is full of fat..so common sense dictates he has surplus intake.

eating higher protein wont lower his tryclicerrides, droping carbs will have an immediate effect. i have blood tests showing it.

[ks1234]

Breakfast: Frosted sugar mini wheats and adding granola sugar? for more protein
Lunch: Tuna on crackers hmmm
Workout: 3-4x days/week: 15 mins up to at least 25 minutes jogging and 45 mins weights. Protein shake after workout
Snack: Yogurt w/granola what kind of yogurt? and what's in the granola?
Dinner: Small portion of steak, chicken or fish. Veggies, a starch like what? and glass of milk

One multi-vitamin everyday.

I've been tracking calories closely and I'm around 2100 every day. 140g protein. 280 carbs. 85g sugar too high. 85g fat.


the above is a breakdown of his energey uptake with edits by SlimmerME, also his tryglicerides are over the range 154 (0-149)- tryclicerides are a measurement of the Fat content of your blood. He is over- he has too much fat

from his own tracking -he states his energy uptake is 280carbs+85 Sugar+85fat =450g of energy vs 140gms of protein.( i wouldnt be surprised if its higher that that as most underestimate the hidden sugars in their foods.

when you eat that much carb your body wont use fat as an energy sourcem and sugar you eat gets used as a energy souce before carbs, any excess turns into----wait for it--- fat!.

look back at his tryclicerides- his blood is full of fat..so common sense dictates he has surplus intake.

eating higher protein wont lower his tryclicerrides, droping carbs will have an immediate effect. i have blood tests showing it.

I like how you bolded only the first part of my first sentence and left out the key part of Since starting TRT
The OP himself stated that his habits have stayed the same since starting TRT... so what would that lead you to believe? That it's not something diet related, that its hormone related.
Furthermore, you stated he's taking in 280 carbs+85g sugar+85g fat= 450g "energy"
Sugar is a carb and I dont believe that his sugar intake is being counted separately through whatever he is using to track his macros. I think it's pretty safe to assume that his sugar intake is apart of his total carbs
So at that point we are looking at 365g of "energy".
So, we are looking at roughly 1,100 cals from his carbohydrate intake. At 220lbs, thats not a lot of calories from carbs, and at 242lbs thats REALLY not a lot of calories from carbs.
His triglycerides are barely above normal and his cholesterol is above normal and im not combing through the rest of that BW but his problems could easily be fixed by a few minor changes to his diet. Im not disagreeing with what youre saying but going full "paleo" isnt really the answer I dont think (because you also have to remember that 90% of people arent going to stick to something like paleo).
His diet is pretty void of fruits and veggies it looks like, so you can definitely start there.
But I also said lower the sugar and raise the protein, carbs and protein have the same calorie content per gram. Cut out say.. half the carbs frees up the calories for 40g of protein, protein help build muscle and also increases satiety because it takes so long to digest but more muscle will substantially increase his metabolism and aid in furthering weight loss.
Everyone has their own experiences and view points. I've gotten to 10% bodyfat at 215lbs eating like a normal human and that was pre trt with shitty t-levels and im sure my BW was fine even though I didnt have it tested at that point, it can be done just fine. If you want to do "paleo" then do it. My diet nowadays much more closely resembles "paleo" but I still eat plenty of carbs and rice and beans and cake and am 235 at 15%. Carbs arent evil or bad and low carb diets suck ass anyway because it cuts out a HUGE portion of the food you can eat. So, it comes to a point of what the OP will actually stick to doing
Do you think that he will stick to drastically changing everything about his diet and going full bro, or do you think that he's more likely to do some minor changes that will most likely fix his issues?

[Simon1972]

Since starting trt. .....this is a trt forum..no need to mention it, my response is in context.

Read my initial response, I mentioned that I doubt its fat, most likely water weight and that its due to high E .you have misrepresented me.

You have taken his carb, sugar fat statement and consolidated the sugars into carbs to lower his intake.This is not what he wrote, he specifically separates them. So did I. So did slimmerme.

His triglycerides are slightly above normal for a obese population. he is oalso off the chart. He is not optimal, he is higher than the average obese adult.

You advise him to lower sugar, and then encourage him to eat more fruit. (Fructose.)

I don't care if 90% (can you post up supporting data) can't stick to paleo. Irrespective ,read my initial post where i say "you don't have to remove carbs completely, just be mindful of how much carbs you are eating" again, misrepresented.

Take a look at the nutrition section, lots of info and advice in there.

[ks1234]

i have to agree with the girls- your trycglicerides are way too high.

cut out carbs and delete sugar. focus on that alone and you will flourish.
get on the paleo bandwagon.
Long term, you are looking at diabetes if you dont..

Since starting trt. .....this is a trt forum..no need to mention it, my response is in context.

Read my initial response, I mentioned that I doubt its fat, most likely water weight and that its due to high E .you have misrepresented me.

You have taken his carb, sugar fat statement and consolidated the sugars into carbs to lower his intake.This is not what he wrote, he specifically separates them. So did I. So did slimmerme.

His triglycerides are slightly above normal for a obese population. he is oalso off the chart. He is not optimal, he is higher than the average obese adult.

You advise him to lower sugar, and then encourage him to eat more fruit. (Fructose.)

I don't care if 90% (can you post up supporting data) can't stick to paleo. Irrespective ,read my initial post where i say"you don't have to remove carbs completely, just be mindful of how much carbs you are eating" again, misrepresented

Take a look at the nutrition section, lots of info and advice in there.

How did I misrepresent you? I will be the first to admit that I didnt read this entire thread but the bolded are direct quotes from you.
So, lets take a moment to do the math. OP states he intakes roughly 2100kcal a day. 4cals for each gram of protein and carbs 9 for each gram of fat
140x4=560
280x4=1120
85x9=765
Total= 2445
So, OP's math and tracking is already off. Maybe youre right and he is counting sugar completely separate from his total
Add in the extra 80g of sugar puts him to almost 3k calories
I guess the only person that can clarify for us is the OP.
And yes, I did advise him to eat more fruits and vegetables but overall lower his sugar consumption. Fructose is handled in the liver so there's less of a response in the pancreas to produce insulin (insulin resistance). Excess fructose can cause raised triglyceride levels in the blood (which OP already has) but I refuse to believe that a couple of pieces of fruit a day will hurt him, especially when considering the micro-nutrients and the overall lowering of OP's sugar consumption (if he does so).

Look man, I dont have any desire to get into any more of a pissing contest than has already gone on. I feel like (at least what I read of your posts and I did not read them ALL) you were using part fear mongering and part paleo buzzword to get a point across. I have a different approach, make some changes, get healthier, and if you want to continue down that path then by all means, baby steps. I dont believe the "get on the paleo bandwagon or face diabetes" is the right approach. I said that 90% of people cant stick to a diet like paleo and you asked for supporting data... take a look around town at lunch or dinner time if you want supporting data and that will tell you everything you need to know.
From what I know of you, youre a pretty good dude and just trying to help, I think youve even helped me in my TRT protocol at one point in time, and im not trying to be a dick or disrespect you, im just trying to give OP a different viewpoint and let him make his own decision

[Simon1972]

I'm over these debates.

Thanks for admitting you didn't read the entire thread.

OP, you have all the information you need to start, best of luck in your weight loss.

[dadroxx]

Update: over the past week I've lost 10 pounds. No changes in diet or exercise.

I think the quick weight gain was mostly water as my body was getting used to TRT over the first few months.

Going forwaed I'm going to concentrate on my diet by cutting back the carbs and suger, and get more protein and veggies.