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Thread: Lowish testosterone log 18y/o

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    I have a fetish for that.
    Love my men castrated. Its my favourite.

  2. #42
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    I think ive made my decision. I may live to regret it however i have spent countless hours of research in the topic and have spoke to numerous individuals with similar circumstances to mine both on site and outside. Even spoke to some guys that work in the field.

    Right now i think its the right choice. If i am offered nebido i am taking it. I feel i have to start privatly. Perhaps in the future i will try to shift to the nhs.

    Thanks guys. I will keep this thread updated with my progress, i appreciate each and everyone who has helped me on my journey so far.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    I think ive made my decision. I may live to regret it however i have spent countless hours of research in the topic and have spoke to numerous individuals with similar circumstances to mine both on site and outside. Even spoke to some guys that work in the field.

    Right now i think its the right choice. If i am offered nebido i am taking it. I feel i have to start privatly. Perhaps in the future i will try to shift to the nhs.

    Thanks guys. I will keep this thread updated with my progress, i appreciate each and everyone who has helped me on my journey so far.
    Glad to hear! Just curious why nebido? I assume it's popular in the U.K. I love cypionate dosed twice a week.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRexMoore View Post
    Glad to hear! Just curious why nebido? I assume it's popular in the U.K. I love cypionate dosed twice a week.
    I hear pretty mucg everyone vouch for it. A few of the HOF in here are on it also.

    For convienience, once everg 10ish weeks isnt so bad lol. My only other options are sustanon clomid or gel.

    I will take what i can get but push for nebido

  5. #45
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    I'm going to research nebido. It would be nice not to feel tethered to my e3d dosing schedule.
    Good Luck Champ!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    I'm going to research nebido. It would be nice not to feel tethered to my e3d dosing schedule.
    Good Luck Champ!
    Ill need it lol thanks!

    Im hoping he prescribes hcg too. So it will be e3d ish anyway.. however i supsect the hcg will be very expenive legally.

    The days cant come fast enough right now

  7. #47
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    My HCG is about $90 vial (12,000 IU). It lasts longer than it's half life. A smaller vial from a regular pharmacy would be cheaper.

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    Not as bad as i thought then hopefully. Ive seen some crazy prices for pharma hcg lol.

    Hope this clinic is up for it

  9. #49
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    On day one of a clomid trial as of today. 8 week duration
    Last edited by hollowedzeus; 08-23-2017 at 12:07 PM.

  10. #50
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    so far no relief from clomid just a dull headache

  11. #51
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    Week 1 of clomid done. No notable difference.

    Not very impressed. Only effect was intermittent headaches which seem to have disappeared.

  12. #52
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    Week 2 update - no difference.

  13. #53
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    Week 3 nothing. Not going to bother updating any further. Its a waste of time. Will get bloods in october then chat to doc again.

  14. #54
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    you're wasting your time with clomid brotha

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    Where are your T levels at exactly before you started clomid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    Dhea-s 8.330 umol/l 0.44-13.40
    Fsh 2.47iu/l 1.50-12.4
    Lh 4.57 iu/l 1.70-8.60
    Testosterone 11.2 nmol/l 7.60 - 31.40
    Free test 0.236nmol/l 0.30-1.00
    Shbg 27.8nmol/l 16-55
    Oestradial 52pmol/l 0-191.99
    I agree with your assessment that there is no obvious cause. I disagree with another poster that it is hypothalamic in origin. Both your LH and FSH are within range, even though the FSH is on the low end. You would not anticipate these results with either a hypothalamic deficiency of GnRH or a pituitary insensitivity. Keep in mind that the hormones are pulsatile in nature and it usually takes multiple tests to nail down a secondary hypogonadalism diagnosis.

    The problem appears to be more primary in origin. Your Total T is at the low end of the range (though still within range) and your Free T is low. Given that your SHBG is within range, it points to a T synthesis problem within the testicles. Did you ever suffer an injury to the testicles? Have you been checked for a testicular varicocele? The latter is important, as it is potentially correctable with minor surgery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    I think ive made my decision. I may live to regret it however i have spent countless hours of research in the topic and have spoke to numerous individuals with similar circumstances to mine both on site and outside. Even spoke to some guys that work in the field.

    Right now i think its the right choice. If i am offered nebido i am taking it. I feel i have to start privatly. Perhaps in the future i will try to shift to the nhs.

    Thanks guys. I will keep this thread updated with my progress, i appreciate each and everyone who has helped me on my journey so far.
    I have no advice to offer on Nebido, as I have never tried. I have read posts of guys being disappointed on it because it did not live up to the claims of ultra long duration of effectiveness. Seems to me that close monitoring of TT levels would be necessary during the first couple of injection cycles to determine you personal injection frequency.

    As for me, I've been on an E3D schedule of T-cyp for nearly 6 years and have no plans to change. It was a God sent for my life and see no reason to change. I particularly like that with more frequent dosing, the volume you need to inject is very small (0.2 to 0.25 mL). This allows me to use 28G one-piece insulin syringes which are readily and inexpensively available without prescription in most states in the USA.

    As for HCG , I would insist on it at your age to preserve your options to have children some day. It should be an easy sell to a physician. Keep in mind though that is you are primary hypogonadic, your response to the exogenous source of the LD/FSH analogue may be diminished too. Worth a trial though. I recommend dosing at least 3X per week, with a total weekly dose of 500-1000 IU.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I agree with your assessment that there is no obvious cause. I disagree with another poster that it is hypothalamic in origin. Both your LH and FSH are within range, even though the FSH is on the low end. You would not anticipate these results with either a hypothalamic deficiency of GnRH or a pituitary insensitivity. Keep in mind that the hormones are pulsatile in nature and it usually takes multiple tests to nail down a secondary hypogonadalism diagnosis.

    The problem appears to be more primary in origin. Your Total T is at the low end of the range (though still within range) and your Free T is low. Given that your SHBG is within range, it points to a T synthesis problem within the testicles. Did you ever suffer an injury to the testicles? Have you been checked for a testicular varicocele? The latter is important, as it is potentially correctable with minor surgery.
    I actually agree with you something doesn't look alright at primary level and being unresponsive to clomid might suggest that too, bloods will tell what's what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    I actually agree with you something doesn't look alright at primary level and being unresponsive to clomid might suggest that too, bloods will tell what's what.
    That was my thought to and I was going to question the value of a trial of clomid when gonadotropins are already within a normal range. Although, there may be some benefit to artificially enhancing gonadotropins in the face of testicular receptor desensitizing (as opposed primary testicular dysfunction). However, given the potential for estrogenic side-effects of clomid therapy, I do question long term use of the drug. Furthermore, I don't see any chatter of actual doses involved. My experience with clomid is that as long as I keep the dose at or below 12.5 mg per day, the estrogenic side-effects are minimal, but going above that, the effects are progressive.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I agree with your assessment that there is no obvious cause. I disagree with another poster that it is hypothalamic in origin. Both your LH and FSH are within range, even though the FSH is on the low end. You would not anticipate these results with either a hypothalamic deficiency of GnRH or a pituitary insensitivity. Keep in mind that the hormones are pulsatile in nature and it usually takes multiple tests to nail down a secondary hypogonadalism diagnosis.

    The problem appears to be more primary in origin. Your Total T is at the low end of the range (though still within range) and your Free T is low. Given that your SHBG is within range, it points to a T synthesis problem within the testicles. Did you ever suffer an injury to the testicles? Have you been checked for a testicular varicocele? The latter is important, as it is potentially correctable with minor surgery.
    Thank you for taking the time to respond

    I have been had two ultrasounds in the past two years screening for testicular cancer. 2nd one i was told i had an appendix on my testicle. Its a very obvious lump that freaked the hell out of me.

    Im assuming this would rule out varicocele?

    I have test cyp at home but im definetly waiting to get test properly. Dont want to go down swlf treatment unless i absoultely have to..

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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I have no advice to offer on Nebido, as I have never tried. I have read posts of guys being disappointed on it because it did not live up to the claims of ultra long duration of effectiveness. Seems to me that close monitoring of TT levels would be necessary during the first couple of injection cycles to determine you personal injection frequency.

    As for me, I've been on an E3D schedule of T-cyp for nearly 6 years and have no plans to change. It was a God sent for my life and see no reason to change. I particularly like that with more frequent dosing, the volume you need to inject is very small (0.2 to 0.25 mL). This allows me to use 28G one-piece insulin syringes which are readily and inexpensively available without prescription in most states in the USA.

    As for HCG, I would insist on it at your age to preserve your options to have children some day. It should be an easy sell to a physician. Keep in mind though that is you are primary hypogonadic, your response to the exogenous source of the LD/FSH analogue may be diminished too. Worth a trial though. I recommend dosing at least 3X per week, with a total weekly dose of 500-1000 IU.
    I also agree that hcg sounds like the best idea. Do you reckon ill be prescribed it? I may or may not take it depending on price as i know its very easily sourced...

    Seems ill be on an e3d schedule nebido or not lol.

    I feel it will also change my life for the better. Only time will tell

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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezuschrist View Post
    you're wasting your time with clomid brotha
    I know. I know haha.

    I asked for nebido but the doc insisted due to my age

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    Where are your T levels at exactly before you started clomid?
    Plasma glucose level 4.5mmol/L - range 3.0-6.0

    CALCIUM
    serum albumin 54g/L - 35-50

    Corrected serum calcium level 2.32mmol/L -range 2.20 - 2.60

    serum lipids

    Serum cholesterol 4.4mmol/L - range 0.0-5.0

    Total cholesterol HDL RATIO 3.1

    Serum triglycerides 0.60mmol/L - range 0.00-2.30

    Serum HDL cholesterol levels 1.41mmol/L -range 0.90-1.80

    Serum LDL cholesterol levels 2.7mmol/L -range 0.0-3.0

    LIVER FUNCTION
    Serum albumin - 54g/L - range 35-50
    Serum alkaline phosphatase 79U/L - range 65-210
    Serum alanine aminotransferase level 29U/L - range 5-55
    Serum bilirubin 12umol/L - range 0-20

    UREA AND ELECTROLYTES
    Serum bicarbonate 27mmol/L - range 22-29
    Serum chloride 101mmol/L - range 95-108
    Serum sodium 145mmol/L - range 133-146
    Serum creatinine 81umol/L - range 71-123
    Estimated EGFR >59
    Serum urea level 6.1mmol/L - range 2.5-7.8

    THYROID
    free t4 level 14.4pmol/L - range 9.p-21.0
    Serum TSH level 1.32mU/L - range 0.20-5.00

    VITIMIN D
    Vitimin d 32nmol/L - range 25-170

    TESTOSTERONE
    Serum sex hormone binding globulin level 44.9nmol/L - range 17.00-56.0

    Serum testosterone 16.70nmol/L - range 8.60-29.00

    Calculated free testosterone 286pmol/L - range 200-620




    Bloodwork 2

    FBC
    haemoglobin estimation - 15.2g/dl range -13.5-18

    Mean corpuscular volume 94.2fl range 80-100

    Platelet count315x10^9/l range 140-450

    Total white vlood count 7x10^9/l range 4-11

    Neutrophil count 3.9x10^9/l range 2-7.5

    Lymphocyte count 2.4x10^9/l range 1-4

    Monocyte count 0.6x10^9/l range 0.2-0.8

    Eosinophil count 0.1x10^9/L range 0-0.4

    Basophil count 0x10^9/L range 0-0.1

    Rbc 4.98x10^12/L range 4.50-6.50

    Haemocrit 0.469l/l range 0.400- 0.540

    Mean corpuse haemoglobin 30.5pg range - 27-32

    Mean corpuse hb conc32.4g/dl range- 32-36

    Red blood cell distribution width 13.1% range - 11-16

    Nucleated red blood cell count 0.01x10^9/L


    LIVER FUNCTION
    Serum albumin - 50g/L - range 35-50
    Serum alkaline phosphatase 91U/L - range 65-210
    Serum alanine aminotransferase level 67U/L - range 5-55
    Serum bilirubin 7umol/L - range 0-20

    UREA AND ELECTROLYTES
    Serum bicarbonate 29mmol/L - range 22-29
    Serum chloride 98mmol/L - range 95-108
    Serum creatinine 89umol/L - range 71-123
    Estimated EGFR >59
    Serum urea level 4.1mmol/L - range 2.5-7.8


    TESTOSTERONE
    Serum sex hormone binding globulin level 21.8nmol/L - range 17.00-56.0

    Serum testosterone 9.40nmol/L - range 8.60-29.00

    Calculated free testosterone 228pmol/L - range 200-620




    Bloodwork 3
    Dhea-s 8.330 umol/l 0.44-13.40
    Fsh 2.47iu/l 1.50-12.4
    Lh 4.57 iu/l 1.70-8.60
    Testosterone 11.2 nmol/l 7.60 - 31.40
    Free test 0.236nmol/l 0.30-1.00
    Shbg 27.8nmol/l 16-55
    Oestradial 52pmol/l 0-191.99



    Summary.

    Last 2 blood works 9.4nmol/l total and 226pmol/l free
    & 11.2nmol/l and 236pmol/l.

    Too low and i believe i am feeling the effects.

    Im not so sure my test will evem be elevated on clomid. I feel no difference

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    That was my thought to and I was going to question the value of a trial of clomid when gonadotropins are already within a normal range. Although, there may be some benefit to artificially enhancing gonadotropins in the face of testicular receptor desensitizing (as opposed primary testicular dysfunction). However, given the potential for estrogenic side-effects of clomid therapy, I do question long term use of the drug. Furthermore, I don't see any chatter of actual doses involved. My experience with clomid is that as long as I keep the dose at or below 12.5 mg per day, the estrogenic side-effects are minimal, but going above that, the effects are progressive.
    From my understanding any T elevating effect from clomid is going to be offset by concomitant upregulation of SHBG, as the molecule will act as plain agonist in the liver, but with the balance further hindered by testicular, excessive secretion of E2 elicited by continuous stimulation from LH as opposed to natural, pulsatile secretion of the latter.

    The result would be, going by paper, estrogen sides, but I have never tried it myself - likely never will - it's just my theoretical point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    From my understanding any T elevating effect from clomid is going to be offset by concomitant upregulation of SHBG, as the molecule will act as plain agonist in the liver, but with the balance further hindered by testicular, excessive secretion of E2 elicited by continuous stimulation from LH as opposed to natural, pulsatile secretion of the latter.

    The result would be, going by paper, estrogen sides, but I have never tried it myself - likely never will - it's just my theoretical point of view.
    I'm not aware of Clomid having a stimulatory effect on SHBG production. What is the source of this information?

    I don't think clomid affects the pulsatile nature of LH. My (all be it, limited) understanding of Clomid is that it selectively binds to estrogen receptors in the brain but has minimal estrogen activity. This prevents estradiol from binding to those receptors. In both men and women, E2 is the predominant inhibitory feedback signal to hypothalamic secretion of GnRH. So, by preventing the negative feedback, clomid up-regulates GnRH production but (to my knowledge) it does not disrupt the pulsatile nature of the hormone. Indeed, my own research in animals many years ago, as well as several other researchers since that time, has shown that GnRH must be secreted in a pulsatile fashion, otherwise there is very rapid down regulation of GnRH receptors in the pituitary. By rapid, I mean within hours.

    Clomid, we know from clinical use, can be administered for an indefinite period of time without losing the LH signal, which provides evidence that the pulsatile nature of GnRH is maintained.

  26. #66
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    Bloods done. Got some snash off the nurse.

    'Who asked for these tests? What doctor? Oh... hes not from this surgery....?

    Oh well cant wait for next weeks fight when i go back for results.

    'Youre fine. Everything looks fine'
    'Fuckin gimme my results'

    Bet she charges me for the paper. She threatened to last time

  27. #67
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    BLOOD WORK UPDATE POST CLOMID


    Apparently ive became superman.... i dont feel it trust me.

    High estro explains the fun going on behind my nipples


    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    BLOOD WORK UPDATE POST CLOMID


    Apparently ive became superman.... i dont feel it trust me.

    High estro explains the fun going on behind my nipples


    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    Lets hope he re-tests you in 6 weeks time and doesn't let these numbers dictate on how to treat your problems now, but hey look at you and that good old testosterone going on
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  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Lets hope he re-tests you in 6 weeks time and doesn't let these numbers dictate on how to treat your problems now, but hey look at you and that good old testosterone going on
    Its like getting promised a present that just keeps getting promised and never followed through lol....

    We shall see how he responds.... favourably i hope. Many thanks for your assistance thus far

  30. #70
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    New protocol - 25mg clomid eod with adex

  31. #71
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    I am developing gynocomastia. Bad lumps behind my left nipple. A little bit behind my right.

    Doesnt look too bad in the picture but theres a puffyness and they are noticibly worrying to people that have saw it.

    Last couple of weeks of 25mg clomid eod and 0.25 arimidex twice a week.
    Another largely waste of time but i was pretty horny for a couple of days last week.
    That was weird.....

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  32. #72
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    Emailed my trt doc about being taken off clomid and put on nebido.

    I am going down to see him next week.

    Been blasting my gyno with 40mg of nolva and now 20mg. Its going away.




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  33. #73
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    Recieved my first nebido injection today. Very pleased.

    Thank you to all who helped me on my journey

  34. #74
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    hi!
    I hope you recover and go better. How are you planning the training? The nutrition? Could you upload a picture of your current status and how are you evolving? Thank you

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trembolono View Post
    hi!
    I hope you recover and go better. How are you planning the training? The nutrition? Could you upload a picture of your current status and how are you evolving? Thank you
    Hi mate hows it going. Thank you!

    I went off the rails leading up to the trt appointment eating junk food but before tht it was pretty spot on. Generally ate 800g of chicken a day, 750g rice and 200g of oats. Oil and other things in there too. So very clean.

    Training - i follow marcus with his HIT style of training. Similar to dorian yates style. Heavy and hard going past failure.

    Pre trt t levels came out 10ish nmol/l average.
    Never had a problem building muscle despite this.

    Pictures are april - november

    Sitting around 92kg atm

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    Last edited by hollowedzeus; 12-14-2017 at 04:33 PM.

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