HCG dosing

[Sh0tsf1red]

I've seen HCG advertised for a lot of things from fertility with TRT to weight loss.

What's the common dosages for each?

Thanks

[Youthful55guy]

Since you are asking this question in a TRT forum, I'm assuming you mean dosage related to TRT. Most people use HCG to prevent testicular atrophy and to restore normal functioning of other glands in the body. The adrenals, seminal vesicles, prostate, and cowpers glands are all known to contain LH receptors. For this purpose most guys find that 500 to 1000 IU per week in divided doses (usually 2-3 per week) is sufficient.

For a TRT monotherapy, most TRT docs don't advocate this approach, but I've seen doses of 1000 IU to 5000 IU thrown around, but there may be substantial E2 side-effects with this approach. I don't personally think it is wise.

For fat loss, save your money. It does not work for this purpose.

[BigMyke71]

"Since you are asking this question in a TRT forum, I'm assuming you mean dosage related to TRT. Most people use HCG to prevent testicular atrophy and to restore normal functioning of other glands in the body. The adrenals, seminal vesicles, prostate, and cowpers glands are all known to contain LH receptors. For this purpose most guys find that 500 to 1000 IU per week in divided doses (usually 2-3 per week) is sufficient."

If I am running test enanthate 150mg 2 times a week then when should I run my hcg Injections? I'm currently using 500 IU 2 times a week sub q the same day as I run my test E. I use .5 arim 2 times a week the day after my test shot so i'm just wondering if the timing of all my doses is optimal. Thanks.

[BigMyke71]

tried to quote you, not successul lol.

[Sh0tsf1red]

I appreciate the feedback

[Youthful55guy]

[QUOTE=BigMyke71;7295769
If I am running test enanthate 150mg 2 times a week then when should I run my hcg Injections? I'm currently using 500 IU 2 times a week sub q the same day as I run my test E. I use .5 arim 2 times a week the day after my test shot so i'm just wondering if the timing of all my doses is optimal. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

You probably don't want to hear my opinion on the T dose (sorry opinions come with the advice), but that seems way excessive at 300 mg per week? Most people do fine on less than half that. Is it supported with labs (Total and free T)? More than likely you are super physiological most, if not all of the time and it's just a matter of time before polycythemia catches up with you.

Regarding your actual question, I don't think timing of HCG relative to T will be of any concern to you. You are so far above physiological ranges that the little T production HCG will cause won't make any difference at all. Some guys on weekly schedules like to add it at the end to boost the nadir levels. Twice a week dosing at 500 IU will work just fine, I've seen arguments for 2X and 3X per week dosing and I'm not convinced that it makes a difference.

[kelkel]

Agree with YG's advice. 300 mgs per week is not TRT, it's a low dose cycle which long term won't be good for you as YG noted. HCG at 500 is probably a bit high, imho but it still fits within studies I've read regarding maintaining fertility. If that's not your concern I'd probably cut the dose in half which may help with estrogen issues as well.

I used to do 3 x 250 IU's per week and cut it back to twice and felt no negative consequence for it. Personally I agree the timing of it doesn't matter much unless on a once per week protocol. That said, there are some knowledgeable guys in this arena who've switched to low dose daily injections and report feeling better this way. Crisler being one of them.

[Sh0tsf1red]

Agree with YG's advice. 300 mgs per week is not TRT, it's a low dose cycle which long term won't be good for you as YG noted. HCG at 500 is probably a bit high, imho but it still fits within studies I've read regarding maintaining fertility. If that's not your concern I'd probably cut the dose in half which may help with estrogen issues as well.

I used to do 3 x 250 IU's per week and cut it back to twice and felt no negative consequence for it. Personally I agree the timing of it doesn't matter much unless on a once per week protocol. That said, there are some knowledgeable guys in this arena who've switched to low dose daily injections and report feeling better this way. Crisler being one of them.

My TRT dose is actually 300/week from my doctor, confirmed by bloods. I've been TRT for almost 4 years now and my levels were still below 200 so they bumped me up.

My doctor has me getting bloods and follow up very often, hard to schedule in cycles because she watches me like a hawk but it's doable.

[kelkel]

My TRT dose is actually 300/week from my doctor, confirmed by bloods. I've been TRT for almost 4 years now and my levels were still below 200 so they bumped me up.

My doctor has me getting bloods and follow up very often, hard to schedule in cycles because she watches me like a hawk but it's doable.

What is the exact protocol? I'm curious because if injections as spaced out to far and BW pulled at trough level it's really not a solid indicator. Even now many docs still put people on protocols based on the terminal life of test, not half life. If your protocol is weekly then you would seem to be some type of hyper-metabolizer.

Re cycling, it seems short esters would be your best bet.

[Youthful55guy]

My TRT dose is actually 300/week from my doctor, confirmed by bloods. I've been TRT for almost 4 years now and my levels were still below 200 so they bumped me up.

My doctor has me getting bloods and follow up very often, hard to schedule in cycles because she watches me like a hawk but it's doable.

Question: Do your labs include SHBG? If it is low, then it could explain why your Total T levels are so low on such a high dose. If SHBG is low, then the Free T will be metabolized much faster by the liver. I'm at the complete opposite end of the SHBG spectrum, so I fight a different battle. I have heard of guys with low SHBF having better luck with daily injections of short esters (i.e. T-Prop) as Kel mentioned. However, I could theorize too that very long acting esters too might work better (i.e. Nebido/T-undeconate). The very long acting ester might take the place of SHBG and protect the T from rapid metabolism.

[Sh0tsf1red]

What is the exact protocol? I'm curious because if injections as spaced out to far and BW pulled at trough level it's really not a solid indicator. Even now many docs still put people on protocols based on the terminal life of test, not half life. If your protocol is weekly then you would seem to be some type of hyper-metabolizer.

Re cycling, it seems short esters would be your best bet.

150/mg a week I meant, 300mg every 2.

My bad on the error, 300mg/week would be a hell of a ride!

[kelkel]

Well that changes things!

[Marsoc]

So your saying that just injecting hcg alone will not be effective in raising ones testosterone levels ?

[kelkel]

So your saying that just injecting hcg alone will not be effective in raising ones testosterone levels?

No, not at all. HCG Mono is actually a form of TRT. Not widely used but still a form of TRT.

[Youthful55guy]

So your saying that just injecting hcg alone will not be effective in raising ones testosterone levels?

I was operating under the assumption that he was injecting 300 mg of T-Eth weekly. In that case, the small bump in T from HCG will be insignificant in the overall T levels.

Here's a good reference for understanding the affect of HCG on individuals with TRT suppressed endogenous production of T: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15713727. The full paper is available free through PubMed. On page 4 of the paper you will find Figure 2, which shows the effect of various doses of HCG on 6 healthy adult volunteers given 200 mg/wk of T-eth in order to suppress endogenous T production in order to evaluate the effects of HCG supplementation. Here's a copy of the graph:


The above graph shows that 125 IU HCG E2D (438 IU/wk) did not significantly affect T production in 6 healthy young male volunteers receiving 200 mg T-Eth per week. However, both 250 IU E2D (875 IU/wk) and 500 IU E2D (1,750 IU/wk) were effective in increasing serum T levels. In both groups, there was an equivalent boost of about 10 nmol/L (~290 ng/dL).

[kelkel]

The long version is an interesting read. Posted it here many times for guys. Probably ought to consider adding it to one of the stickies....

[BigMyke71]

I am a 45 yr old 260 lb male usually around 8-10% body fat. I train 5-6 times a week and get paid to work out with people and also to do some small roles as an extra
on tv and music videos also have done some commercials for a supp company. I've been training for 25 years and started TRT at 38 when my levels went to 150 after never touching test in my life. I do some referral work for a HRT outfit so I rely on my body to make some $.
I used to run a bit more test on the side (300mls test prop extra) but i'm cutting back after being around 310 lbs at my biggest. I'm now down to 260lbs like I said and actually need advice on how to lose more weight because I've hit a wall. Any help would be greatly appreciated because there are plenty of articles on how to get big but not many on how to revert back w/o looking like a mess.
Thanks!

[BigMyke71]

I also read what you wrote about polycythemia, I donate blood every 6 weeks to combat the high count.