Does Anyone Regret Going on TRT?

[Kyle1337]

In retrospect I could have been smarter,
But that doesn't just apply to AAS use.
Shit, if I'm gonna regret all the choices I've done that have affected my life in a big way (and many would say in a negative way), I'd have nothing but regrets.

I regret nothing!
And you can carve that on my tombstone.

My only issue is it's fucking hard to get prescribed TRT properly over here.
Not to mention is MUCH cheaper just doing it illegally.

However, one issue though;
I'm not that interested in having kids,
but it's nice to have the option.
While it wouldn't be impossible (I think),
it won't be easy either.
Still, I'm ok with that too. At least for now.

Where is over here? How difficult is it in the USA if you know?

[almostgone]

Where is over here? How difficult is it in the USA if you know?

Not difficult in the US, if your labs indicate you need TRT. The hard part for me was finding a Dr. that knows how to properly address hormone replacement. In my case, it took a couple of years to prove to my Dr that the more modern protocols were much more effective than the old school protocols that made you feel decent for about 5-7 days and then left you in horrible shape the next 25 days or so.
Educate yourself on modern effective protocols, because you may end up teaching your Dr. a thing or two about injection frequency, E2 management, HCG usage, etc.
A good Dr. will listen to your concerns if you can show you have a valid point.

[waylaid69]

1/2 inch (12.7 mm) into the upper outer quad.

Ok. Do you think it would work just as well if you used the same needle but injected into the glute, or would that result in too much aromatization?

[DocToxin8]

Where is over here? How difficult is it in the USA if you know?

Over here is Scandinavia, where all the GP (state docs) knows that if you've used AAS, and if either free T or total T is within reference range, no matter if it's on the lowest end, then you're fine.
If it is lower, then the general advice is to "wait a year or two to get it sorted",
and instead of hcg or SERMS during that period, you'll get some Prozac or other anti depressants, as there's no such thing as a physical need for T, it's purely psychological.

so.. yeah.
Things are beginning to get better but it's still the dark ages.

If you're lucky you'll get TRT very easy, or at least when you need it,
but for someone looking like me I need to be VERY lucky!

I think this is gonna change more and more quite soon I hope,
I'm seeing a trend. But compared to "youth clinics" in the US it's hopeless.

Actually, going to a doc in another country to start TRT and then continue it when you get back home is probably one of the easier ways to do it.

[Youthful55guy]

Ok. Do you think it would work just as well if you used the same needle but injected into the glute, or would that result in too much aromatization?

I doubt it would have any effect on aromatization. Aromatization mostly follows first order kinetics; the greater the substrate, the greater the conversion. If you lower the substrate level by lowering the peek T value, you lower the conversion.

I don't understand though, why you would want to continue contorting yourself to inject such a small amount into the glute? Injection into the upper outer thigh is so much easier.

[cousinmuscles]

Actually, going to a doc in another country to start TRT and then continue it when you get back home is probably one of the easier ways to do it.

I see a lot of issues too, they wont prescribe you an AI and not HCG either, unless you choose one out of the three (testosterone , arimidex or HCG treatment). Also people are reporting that they rarely care if your peak to trough values are horrible on nebido, since theyre just following guidelines.

How do you go on about getting TRT abroad? Does this really work from any country at all? If thats the case then a trip to the US would be golden, but will that prescription be valid in the docs eyes here, esp if its from a youth clinic?

[waylaid69]

I doubt it would have any effect on aromatization. Aromatization mostly follows first order kinetics; the greater the substrate, the greater the conversion. If you lower the substrate level by lowering the peek T value, you lower the conversion.

I don't understand though, why you would want to continue contorting yourself to inject such a small amount into the glute? Injection into the upper outer thigh is so much easier.

It's just that I have hit nerves many times when I've injected into the outer upper quad. How far down from the greater trochanter do you inject?
Regarding the aromatization, my doc once told me that if I use a needle that is too short when injecting into the glutes I will just be injecting into fat, which will cause more conversion to estradiol.

[Youthful55guy]

It's just that I have hit nerves many times when I've injected into the outer upper quad. How far down from the greater trochanter do you inject?
Regarding the aromatization, my doc once told me that if I use a needle that is too short when injecting into the glutes I will just be injecting into fat, which will cause more conversion to estradiol.

The Subcutaneous/fat conversion issue is much debated. Dr. Crisler (a notable expert on the subject) says no. Who knows?

Regarding injection site, below is a diagram of the target area I go for. Got this from a former doc many years ago.

[almostgone]

Like 55guy, I was taught to inject in the upper outer portion of the leg, but just a tad lower than the pic he was kind enough to post. If you go too low on the quad you tend to hit nerves, too far to the outside and you'll nail the iliotibial tract. Alternatively, I sometimes use delts. No matter what site I use, I rotate sites. (I'm on a 2x/week injection schedule).

[DocToxin8]

I see a lot of issues too, they wont prescribe you an AI and not HCG either, unless you choose one out of the three (testosterone , arimidex or HCG treatment). Also people are reporting that they rarely care if your peak to trough values are horrible on nebido, since theyre just following guidelines.

How do you go on about getting TRT abroad? Does this really work from any country at all? If thats the case then a trip to the US would be golden, but will that prescription be valid in the docs eyes here, esp if its from a youth clinic?

As long as your within EU or EØS (not a part of the EU, but Kinda is anyway)
then you can get prescribed 1mo of narcotic medications, and 3mo of non narcotic meds (need to check this up, as both may be changes to 1mo)

Anyways, you return to your normal doc with some bloodwork from the foreign doc and show him a copy of the script as well as bring with you boxes of testosterone patches or Nebido vials with your name on them,
and then your dear old GP is in a completely different situation than before;
He no longer has to INITIATE treatment, merely continue it.

Since no doc wants to initiate; (blame the one who threw the first stone you know), but are far more ready to continue treatment, then that's a way insuspect will work.

Did work when it came opiates for a friend of mine at least.
"See here; I got tons of morphine prescribed allready, who are you to second guess a specialist?"

I think the same principle applies to everything.
Could be wrong Ofcourse.

[Relogic]

I regret it. Did it for 2.5 years, finally stopped because I couldn't get the PVCs under control and eventually my free test tanked even though my total was 1100. I used a local doctor who was no help with fixing my problems and then went with an online TRT program but had the same disappointing results. Now I'm stuck with low normal test and low libido. I felt better and had more sex drive before I started TRT than I do now after a long run with it.

[kelkel]

I regret it. Did it for 2.5 years, finally stopped because I couldn't get the PVCs under control and eventually my free test tanked even though my total was 1100. I used a local doctor who was no help with fixing my problems and then went with an online TRT program but had the same disappointing results. Now I'm stuck with low normal test and low libido. I felt better and had more sex drive before I started TRT than I do now after a long run with it.

Sounds like it would be worth the time to visit one of the top docs such as Crisler, etc. or Defy Medical. Actually I believe Crisler is now associated with Defy.

[Relogic]

Sounds like it would be worth the time to visit one of the top docs such as Crisler, etc. or Defy Medical. Actually I believe Crisler is now associated with Defy.

yeah i've thought ab trying them out...only a 7 hour drive...noticed peaktesosterone endorses them and seen it talked ab here as well

[Youthful55guy]

I regret it. Did it for 2.5 years, finally stopped because I couldn't get the PVCs under control and eventually my free test tanked even though my total was 1100. I used a local doctor who was no help with fixing my problems and then went with an online TRT program but had the same disappointing results. Now I'm stuck with low normal test and low libido. I felt better and had more sex drive before I started TRT than I do now after a long run with it.

Curious, why do you suspect the PVC to be related to the use of testosterone ? I was curious myself and did a little digging, and I don't see PVCs or any other heart rhythm irregularities listed as a reported side-effect on the Andorgel package insert. In fact, the only cardiovascular side-effects (other than indirect altered lipids side-effects) listed were 1) polycythemia (well known), 2) hypertension, and 3) stroke. Nothing related to heart arrhythmias. There is some discussion that it may cause alterations in blood clotting and require INR adjustments in anticoagulant therapy (e.g., Warfarin) for those on such therapy; however, that is mostly prescribed for atrial fibrillation. I'm not aware of it being used with PVCs. There is also some discussion of it causing alterations in ACTH secretion. This is a pituitary hormone that controls the release corticosteroids from the adrenal gland. This is probably why some of us (myself included) have increased fluid retention with supplemental testosterone. This, in combination with the polycythemia effects, may explain the increased risk of hypertension and stroke. It MIGHT possibly be responsible for exasperating PVCs if the fluid retention is altering pressures in the heart and triggering alterations in the conduction of the electrical signals in ventricles. Note, this is my theory and not supported by any research. if that were the case, then diuretic therapy may allow you to go back to using testosterone without exasperating the PVCs.

[Relogic]

Because both times I tried TRT over the course of 2.5 years, PVCs would occur and then immediately stop a week or 2 after my last injection. Figured it might be due to hemacrit, too much ai, or even hcg , but I eventually ruled all of those out by either giving blood for hemacrit with no change, reducing my ai to just .25 mg a week with no change, and stopping hcg completely with no change. So all that seemed left to me was the testosterone .

You bring up some points I've never considered. Would be awesome if all I had to do was diuretic therapy.

[Youthful55guy]

Because both times I tried TRT over the course of 2.5 years, PVCs would occur and then immediately stop a week or 2 after my last injection. Figured it might be due to hemacrit, too much ai, or even hcg , but I eventually ruled all of those out by either giving blood for hemacrit with no change, reducing my ai to just .25 mg a week with no change, and stopping hcg completely with no change. So all that seemed left to me was the testosterone .

You bring up some points I've never considered. Would be awesome if all I had to do was diuretic therapy.

Did you experience fluid retention? Many of us do. It might be worth asking the doc for a trial script. If you have hypertension + fluid retention, consider asking the doctor a combination drug that contains an antihypertensive with low sexual side-effects (e.g. ACE inhibitor) combined with an diuretic. I take losartan (an ACE inhibitor) alone, but I know that it is also available with hydrochlorothiazide (a diuretic). However, this is all theoretical and depends on whether the PVC is indeed associated with fluid retention.

[EDCG19]

I don't regret it at all, what I think is odd though I'll mention below

I've been into powerlifting for over 10 years, and I have some experience with heavy training in power lifting and strongman. What I can't seem to understand is the heat I have been given from a few other boards online for jumping onto HRT and eventually starting TRT.

I'm 29. I did have low t and my T levels were not functioning and couldn't figure out why so I started a basic dose of HRT. I've gotten a lot of flack from some other boards for starting at 29 since everyone tells me I started way to young. I had lot of the guys on HRT in their 40s think I started way too young even though my levels were really low...

[Relogic]

Did you experience fluid retention? Many of us do. It might be worth asking the doc for a trial script. If you have hypertension + fluid retention, consider asking the doctor a combination drug that contains an antihypertensive with low sexual side-effects (e.g. ACE inhibitor) combined with an diuretic. I take losartan (an ACE inhibitor) alone, but I know that it is also available with hydrochlorothiazide (a diuretic). However, this is all theoretical and depends on whether the PVC is indeed associated with fluid retention.

i don't recall, but i'm a fairly skinny guy, even on trt, but i did gain 10lbs during the first week so i'm sure i had fluid retention

[Youthful55guy]

i don't recall, but i'm a fairly skinny guy, even on trt, but i did gain 10lbs during the first week so i'm sure i had fluid retention

Yes, that is common and due to fluid retention. No doubt due to it's affect on ACTH secretion. Losartan with hydrochlorothiazide might be worth a try. Hyzaar is a common brand.

[Relogic]

Yes, that is common and due to fluid retention. No doubt due to it's affect on ACTH secretion. Losartan with hydrochlorothiazide might be worth a try. Hyzaar is a common brand.

ill definitely bring it up to the doctor...scheduled to do a consultation thru Defy Medical...thanks for the help!

[kelkel]

I don't regret it at all, what I think is odd though I'll mention below

I've been into powerlifting for over 10 years, and I have some experience with heavy training in power lifting and strongman. What I can't seem to understand is the heat I have been given from a few other boards online for jumping onto HRT and eventually starting TRT.

I'm 29. I did have low t and my T levels were not functioning and couldn't figure out why so I started a basic dose of HRT. I've gotten a lot of flack from some other boards for starting at 29 since everyone tells me I started way to young. I had lot of the guys on HRT in their 40s think I started way too young even though my levels were really low...

If your levels were low and not fixable there's no issues. Who cares what others say.

[hammerheart]

I don't regret it at all, what I think is odd though I'll mention below

I've been into powerlifting for over 10 years, and I have some experience with heavy training in power lifting and strongman. What I can't seem to understand is the heat I have been given from a few other boards online for jumping onto HRT and eventually starting TRT.

I'm 29. I did have low t and my T levels were not functioning and couldn't figure out why so I started a basic dose of HRT. I've gotten a lot of flack from some other boards for starting at 29 since everyone tells me I started way to young. I had lot of the guys on HRT in their 40s think I started way too young even though my levels were really low...

Their just failing to apply common sense - if low levels are unrecoverable what's the point of living with low T until being of a vaguely defined acceptable age? Unfortunately that also seems the way some professionals see it.

[kelkel]

yeah i've thought ab trying them out...only a 7 hour drive...noticed peaktesosterone endorses them and seen it talked ab here as well

You won't have to drive there.

[ryobi1]

did you try eliminating the ai completely?
was it nessecary as dictaated by bloods?

meant to hit post with quote.....question for relogic

[Relogic]

You won't have to drive there.

yeah i noticed that in the email after setting up with them...even better

[Relogic]

did you try eliminating the ai completely?
was it nessecary as dictaated by bloods?

meant to hit post with quote.....question for relogic

the first time i did trt i didn't do my research and relied on the local doc to handle everything...unfortunately that moron (and me being the bigger moron for being complacently ignorant) had me doing 1mg anastrozole 5 days a weeks, while on 200mg test and 1000 iu hcg once a week...needless to say that much ai with so little test eventually caused me some terrible side effects

after realizing he really didn't know anything about what he was doing, i tried an online trt program...they still wanted me to do what i thought to be way too much ai...0.5mg a day...so i went with them but only did .25mg 3x a week and eventually dropped it to .25mg a week

honestly i was unjustifiably scared of gyno, which is the only reason i did an ai without checking my blood 6 weeks or so in to trt...looking back, while not on trt my estrogen is always really low which makes sense since my test is low...but on trt with ai my estrogen levels weren't even registering which is worse than being low on test to begin with

all that said, im certain i don't need an ai on trt...even at 200mg a week...the next time i try trt (if ever) i'll get blood work 6 weeks or so in to it to verify if i'm right about not needing an ai

[StanTheGuy]

Ya I have a friend who totally regret tht.

[ryobi1]

Relogic,
I think its every guys fear of getting gyno, if caught in time it can be reversed,
no one wants to undergo surgery, was your test dosage too high maybe?
that seems to be top end, maybe if you try TRT again start with a lower dose, and
get bloods fairly regular till you find the sweet spot, what works for you.

[EDCG19]

Ya I have a friend who totally regret tht.

I think a lot of people actually regret the choice but they will never get to admit it in public

For some of us though, we didn't have a choice

Living with low test at a youngish age is horrible and is much-much worse than doing "proper" HRT

[Youthful55guy]

honestly i was unjustifiably scared of gyno, which is the only reason i did an ai without checking my blood 6 weeks or so in to trt...looking back, while not on trt my estrogen is always really low which makes sense since my test is low...but on trt with ai my estrogen levels weren't even registering which is worse than being low on test to begin with

I think way too many guys are overly paranoid of estrogen. Really, it is a necessary hormone for guys. I believe most of this paranoia comes from AAS abuse and guys stacking hormones on top of each other without putting thought into how the side-effects might interact. Also, in comparison to TRT, bodybuilders take ridiculously high levels of T, which is going to send their E2 up. However, the goal of TRT is to maintain T within normal physiologic levels, so why would one expect E2 to go out of range if T does not?

Regardless, if you are doing "normal" TRT with a well structured protocol, you should never take an AI unless you have labs to indicate you need one. Low E2 is just as bad as high E2 for sexual side-effects and other "low-T" like effects.