New, was just prescribed 200mg/week have concerns...

[hammerheart]

Why not just lower dose and see if it betters? Very few guy can get away whit 200mg weekly and no AI, so there is concrete chance your estrogen is off and that is well a cause for dick issues.

[Youthful55guy]

Guys, Im considering quitting trt. Im about 4 weeks in and feel no better. Im having anxiety about taking it to begin with, my resting heart rate has shot up 10-15bbm since starting (I always wear a smartwatch that logs it), Im getting hot flashes like a woman going through menopause and I had my first ever ED problem with my crazy hot 30yo blonde bombshell wife this afternoon (couldnt orgasm, went limp during the best sex weve had in a WHILE). She wasnt pleased, neither was I. Im assuming my E2 is through the ROOF right now. Im waking up every hour, on the hour at night to top it all off. This is crazy...

The only positive Ive experienced is my performance in the gym, my pumps are awesome and Ive got veins I have never seen before which is awesome, but compared to the negatives its not worth it.

Could high e2 be the cause of all these issues Im having?

It's a very personal choice and you need to do what's right for you. However, I hope you and other reading this string keep in mind is that the protocol you were on was archaic and destined for failure. Also keep in mind, per earlier discussion points, that being on that protocol will mess up you hormonal system for months to come. It takes about 6 weeks for the body to adapt to new protocols and yours has been all over the map. Unfortunately, you hooked up with a doctor that does not understand how to do male hormone replacement and your results just fuel the argument from is its opponents that it doesn't work. In many respects, they are correct, it does more harm than good when improperly administered.

I don't want to try to talk you into something that you do not want to do, or that you can't maintain because of inept medical support, but rather than bailing altogether, you might consider actually trying a program that is more modern and maintainable.

1) Drop your dose to no more than 120 mg T-cyp or T-eth per week.
2) Divide the dose into at least 2X weekly. I highly recommend every 3 day (E3D) dosing. I recommend starting at 40 mg (0.2 mL 200mg/mL standard solution) E3D.
3) Use HCG to prevent testicular atrophy and for other heath benefits to replace LH lost due to negative feedback. I recommend 500 to 1000 IU per week divide into 3 injections spaced as evenly apart as possible (many gyts do MWF dosing).

Maintain that schedule for a full 6 weeks and then get your labs redrawn and test for E2, and make $^%# sure you get the correct test method used (see other strings for discussion). There's no sense in testing E2 now on an unstable protocol. IF, and only IF, your labs come back with high E2, then consider adding in a appropriately small dose of anastrozole. We can talk about dosing at that time.

Keep in mind, even with quitting now, you are going to be in for a rough ride as you hormones normalize back to what they were before starting TRT. It's going to take about 6 weeks for that process to run it's full course.

Best of luck in whatever you choose.

[Railroader]

Sounds like the Doc is going to allow me to just run my own program and prescribe me whatever I want....it would be a HORRIBLE thing if I didnt have you all, or the ability to scrounge the internet for proper protocol advice. I called today after feeling some gyno symptoms and he shot out a script of anastrozole to get filled. I explained all the research Ive been doing and advice Ive received from some folks I know (you awesome dudes) that have been on successful TRT programs so he was willing to write up what I asked within reason. Ill pick it up tomorrow and literally discard anything written on the prescription and start on a super low dosage until I get my labs done in a few more weeks. I mentioned HCG and he said he had no problem prescribing it also but I mentioned I had no interest in more children originally so thats why he left it out. I figured Id get the AI started then go from there on HCG when I get my labs done on my 8 week follow up.

What dosage should I start the anastrozole? My nipples are sensitive and puffy to top off all the other symptoms ive been experiencing that all scream high E2 but I do understand tanking E2 would be worse than what Im dealing with now so I want to be very careful. Ive split the Test to E4D for now also.



Thank you guys for the help, I really do appreciate it more than you know.

[assguy22]

Guys, Im considering quitting trt. Im about 4 weeks in and feel no better. Im having anxiety about taking it to begin with, my resting heart rate has shot up 10-15bbm since starting (I always wear a smartwatch that logs it), Im getting hot flashes like a woman going through menopause and I had my first ever ED problem with my crazy hot 30yo blonde bombshell wife this afternoon (couldnt orgasm, went limp during the best sex weve had in a WHILE). She wasnt pleased, neither was I. Im assuming my E2 is through the ROOF right now. Im waking up every hour, on the hour at night to top it all off. This is crazy...

The only positive Ive experienced is my performance in the gym, my pumps are awesome and Ive got veins I have never seen before which is awesome, but compared to the negatives its not worth it.

Could high e2 be the cause of all these issues Im having?

Of course. High e2 is as bad as low T.

+info http://www.peaktestosterone.com/HRT_Estradiol_Men.aspx

[Railroader]

A little update on my TRT.
Im now going on my 7th week, I split the dose from 1ml/wk of 200mg to .40ml E4D about 3 weeks ago and today dropped to .30ml due to gyno sides. I get bloods done in about 10 days so Im anxious to see what that shows, Ill definitely post them here when I get results.

All that aside....Im starting to actually feel the benefits and its awesome! I had a roller coaster going on after a few weeks but everything is starting to calm down finally with E4D injections. My sex drive is absurd, I didnt have a problem there to begin with but it was NOTHING like it is now holy crap! If shes up for it Im good for 2-3 times a day. My erections have never been so hard in my entire life, seriously feels like a granite post lmao. Go ahead and call me a liar but its bigger. Morning wood 4-5x a week. My strength gains are insane vs what Im used to, I feel like an entirely different person in the gym. Mood is improving especially confidence.

Sides...I am retaining quite a bit of water which Im sure is due to the high E2. Also having a difficult time falling asleep at night. Whats odd is Ill get 5-6hrs of sleep and wake up feeling like I got 8+ but after work im super fatigued and need a nap no matter how much sleep I got or how light the day was at work. Im hoping thats due to E2 as well. Ive gained 7-8lbs this month, has to be water. I was sweating like a pig at night in bed but thats stopped since the E4D change but Im still hardly urinating throughout the day where before I would go 4-5x at work now Im down to 1 or 2, based on that Im probably still sweating at night but maybe just not noticing it as much.
Had some pretty bad nipple sensitivity last week, nipples get hard VERY easily and have gotten a little bit larger. Swear I could cut glass with those bad boys the other day lol. Thats why I lowered to .30 for now.

Anyway...Ill post those labs and see where were at in a couple weeks.


TL DR- TRT is badass, sides kinda suck but totally worth it, hoping sides go away with AI script soon.

EDIT, just realized Id mentioned before I was going to pick up the anastrozole but I decided to not do anything until I get bloods so I know where I am vs taking it blindly then going in for bloodwork having no clue.

[Youthful55guy]

A couple of comments:

0.3 mL (60 mg) E4D is about the right starting dose. Don't rush it and never make changes without labs to support it.

Some guys (myself included) go through about a 2-4 week surge in libido and then it comes back to what's supposed to be normal for you. I call it the "Superman effect". Your hormones are all readjusting to a new norm and then they settle into a new "normal" pattern. This process takes about 6 weeks, which is why you should not rush changes to protocol. Some advice, don't chase the Superman effect. It's not sustainable. Enjoy it for now, but it's not "normal". Trying to get it back by throwing more T at it down the road will just mess you up.

Regarding the nipples. I find that guys often confuse nipple reactivity with gynecomastia . Guys are so $%^ paranoid of gyno, that they often crush their E2 to keep it from happening, and when their nipples get a little sensitive or react when sexually aroused, the paranoia kicks in and they take unnecessary action (e.g. anastrozole). News flash: Nipple erections are perfectly normal for guys when they are sexually aroused. It's when they don't occur that you may want to become concerned. Let the labs dictate whether or not you need an anti-estrogen, not nipple erections or sensitivity.

[Railroader]

Got some new numbers from a blood draw after 10 weeks on TRT taken on shot day prior to inj (4 days out)
Baseline levels in Red prior to TRT

Test 521 (175-781)ng/dl 236
SHBG 18.40 (13.3-89.5)nmol/L 21.9
Free Test 13.51 (1.59-24.23)ng/dl 5.65
Bioavailable Test 351.7 (39.8-605.9)ng/dl
Estradiol 36 (43-53)pg/ml 46

E2 is odd, the office changed labs and the new E2 range cant be right.. Im flagged as "Low" on the bloodwork at 36, pfffft.

These results were on .35ml E4D with no AI. Doc gave me a rx for 1mg anastrozole with every injection (as far as they know Im still on 1ml/200mg weekly, I didnt feel like testing how he would take it if I explained my self prescribed dosage change without approval).
It took a couple weeks to get the labs back so I began taking .5mg adex E4D on injection day for the last 2 weeks and increased to .40ml T. Morning wood has increased a LOT, also erections are like a granite countertop now so it definitely helped, my face isnt puffy now either. Im just concerned with E2 only 10-15 high I may crash it at .5mg so Im thinking taking that down to .25 until next labs to be safe?

Aside from that. TRT has literally changed my life after that first month roller coaster. Little things dont bother me anymore, energy has increased x100, Confidence through the ROOF, strength, recovery, physique....I could go on and on. I wake up with a hard on almost EVERY day not only in my underwear but in my head. I feel so stable right now its mind blowing how I felt over the last few years considering what I could have.

Can you guys pick apart those numbers for me? I feel good, but I didnt even know how bad I felt until it got good so if theres room for improvement Im all ears!

[hammerheart]

That's a lot of adex for 80mg E4D, but we are all different, .25mg would be generally more appropriate, yet your bloods don't show any need for AI at 70mg E4D.

Have you felt better after introducing the adex? If you were feeling that great already with no AI then you shouldn't change anything imo.

Glad your doing well btw (we told you...)

[Railroader]

That's a lot of adex for 80mg E4D, but we are all different, .25mg would be generally more appropriate, yet your bloods don't show any need for AI at 70mg E4D.

Have you felt better after introducing the adex? If you were feeling that great already with no AI then you shouldn't change anything imo.

Glad your doing well btw (we told you...)

You did. And Im glad I listened and dug in because it was WELL worth it.

That said....I really should do a once over on the stickies before I make decisions and change up my program like I just did because introducing AI at the same time as bumping up my T, even as slight as I did, it would be difficult to give credit to one or the other.
Im going to stick with the .40 (possibly .45, seems like I have room for it) and stop taking the AI for a bit and see what happens. Im pretty in tune with my body at this point and should be able to notice one way or the other if it was the adex benefiting or if it was the slight bump in test.
Ive been feeling great for a few weeks now so at least I know if all else fails just drop back to .35ml and discontinue adex altogether, that seems to be a good TRT baseline for me and the labs looked good as well.

Im slightly concerned with the SHBG level as it seems a bit low?

[hammerheart]

You did. And Im glad I listened and dug in because it was WELL worth it.

That said....I really should do a once over on the stickies before I make decisions and change up my program like I just did because introducing AI at the same time as bumping up my T, even as slight as I did, it would be difficult to give credit to one or the other.
Im going to stick with the .40 (possibly .45, seems like I have room for it) and stop taking the AI for a bit and see what happens. Im pretty in tune with my body at this point and should be able to notice one way or the other if it was the adex benefiting or if it was the slight bump in test.
Ive been feeling great for a few weeks now so at least I know if all else fails just drop back to .35ml and discontinue adex altogether, that seems to be a good TRT baseline for me and the labs looked good as well.

Im slightly concerned with the SHBG level as it seems a bit low?

The bump in Test was a very minor one if you felt better I'd point to the AI, if you want to increase Test dosage then consider .25mg and repeat bloods from there. Don't commit too many frequent changes or you will lose the benefits you have already achieved. One step at a time...

SHBG is on the low side but it's fine, I do recommend to keep pin interval short like your already doing - 2x weekly or so, that's what ppl with SHBG levels like yours do best with.

[Dannyboy51577]

Well after reading this thread I have a little renewed faith. Still at beginning stage-did blood work. Doc office called and I have to go in to go over results this saturday, but they told me over phone that my test results were within range. Sounds like typical answer from doc. Plus, they want me to do sleep study, and take supplement for vit D cuz levels are low. Ive had sleep apnea for 20 years, I know the tired feeling that comes from it. What im going through now is not that. Its a hell of alot worse. Similar to Railroader- the lack of energy or motivation, mood swings, lack of libido, inability sometimes to get an erection or sometimes to maintain it. So im not sure that he will be looking to do anything about anything really. Seems like he is trying to find some other reason for me feeling like shit. I told him upfront that overall my quality of life sucks. Yeah im going through the motions, but thats about it. So gonna go over results, but if he isnt gonna try to help me with it i guess i gotta find somewhere else

[Voyager1]

Aside from that. TRT has literally changed my life after that first month roller coaster. Little things dont bother me anymore, energy has increased x100, Confidence through the ROOF, strength, recovery, physique....I could go on and on. I wake up with a hard on almost EVERY day not only in my underwear but in my head. I feel so stable right now its mind blowing how I felt over the last few years considering what I could have.

Loving everything about this post. CONGRATS, Railroader. Sorry for the long haul to get there, but so happy for you!