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Thread: Why do I feel like I'm cripple (pain) when I use Enanthate?

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    Faf
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    Why do I feel like I'm cripple (pain) when I use Enanthate?

    Hello wise people, Im 54 and in good shape, train for bodybuilding 5-6 times a week. However, I have a prescription of Cypionate from my Doctor for TRT,(started 6 month ago) but the 150ml every 10 days is not effective enough, but never had any after payne with it. So I bought some Enanthate from a guy I know. Since, every time I do a shot 100ml 3x weekly (different body parts) I can barely walk for the rest of the week and cant work on my legs because it's to painful. I dont know if I'm authorized to name the lab's name but I will let you guess(Ino.....) I use the right needles 18 to extract and 23 to inject. Is it me who is incompatible with the product? Or is it the product?Please excuse my English....

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    Nephets's Avatar
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    I don't think it matters. What you have isn't working for you so find another source.

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    And find another doctor as he has no clue about the half life of cypionate . Ten days is far to much of a spread between shots. Look at this basic testosterone metabolism chart and you'll understand:




    So you're gettina a large spike ot test and E2 upon injection then a slow ride to nothing. If you self inject I'd recommend switching to 50mgs every 3.5 days which will give you steadier levels consistently as well as less of a spike in E2. And yes, 50 mgs not 75. You can get by with less with a 2X per week protocol and still maintain equal or better values. Plus you get to bank a little Test as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    And find another doctor as he has no clue about the half life of cypionate . Ten days is far to much of a spread between shots. Look at this basic testosterone metabolism chart and you'll understand:




    So you're gettina a large spike ot test and E2 upon injection then a slow ride to nothing. If you self inject I'd recommend switching to 50mgs every 3.5 days which will give you steadier levels consistently as well as less of a spike in E2. And yes, 50 mgs not 75. You can get by with less with a 2X per week protocol and still maintain equal or better values. Plus you get to bank a little Test as well.
    They set my brother up on once a month with cyp! I told him to tell the doc he wanted to do his own injections and I set him up for 3.5 days between inj.

    Pehaps this is why AAS gets a bad name for "roidrage".
    My brother is not a stable guy anyway and they had him set up for a mental rollercoaster! I will never understand how a doc can prescribe any medicine with total ignorance to the half life and what it can cause. That would have put my brother in the nuthouse.

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    Faf
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    Wow! Thank you guys for your time and generosity. I'm suddenly don't feel alone anymore. And I will follow KelKel recommandation. One more thing, I was thinking can it make a difference if one is in cotton seed oil (Cyp) and the other in (Enth) is in grape seed oil) Maybe my body doesn't like it....Thanks again I'm so happy that this website exist, I have so much to learn... One last one, do I need Arimidex with the quantity 50mgs every 3.5 days

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    Faf
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    Thank you very much KelKel, I will follow your recommandation.I was thinking can it make a difference if one is in cotton seed oil (Cyp) and the other in (Enth) is in grape seed oil) Maybe my body doesn't like it....Thanks again I'm so happy that this website exist, I have so much to learn... One last one, do I need Arimidex with the quantity 50mgs every 3.5 days? Thanks again dude...

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    Oil shouldn't make a difference to you. Hopefully you won't need an AI but you should pull some blood work after about 4 weeks or so and check basics including a sensitive E2 assay. If your doc won't do it there are on-line sites in the US (assuming you're from the US) where you can pull it yourself for minimal cost. Check out discounted labs or private md labs. They have packages set up to help.

    Pull your BW the morning of injection but BEFORE the injection.
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    Faf
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    Thanks, once again. I'm from Ottawa,
    Canada, could you tell me which reliable online lab I can consider, because I'm starting to think that what the guy sold me is shit...

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    Faf
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    Thanks, once again. I'm from Ottawa,
    Canada, could you tell me which reliable online lab I can consider, because I'm starting to think that what the guy sold me is shit...

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    I don't think Canada allows it unfortunately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faf View Post
    Thank you very much KelKel, I will follow your recommandation.I was thinking can it make a difference if one is in cotton seed oil (Cyp) and the other in (Enth) is in grape seed oil) Maybe my body doesn't like it....Thanks again I'm so happy that this website exist, I have so much to learn... One last one, do I need Arimidex with the quantity 50mgs every 3.5 days? Thanks again dude...

    Quote Originally Posted by Faf View Post
    Thanks, once again. I'm from Ottawa,
    Canada, could you tell me which reliable online lab I can consider, because I'm starting to think that what the guy sold me is shit...


    It's probably related to a high acid content in the raw enanthate powder that you got from your friend, especially it if is UGL made. There have been quite a few complaints over the last 8-10 years or so of this.
    I can inject German Remedies test enanthate (it is pharmaceutical product) and have absolutely no post injection issues, UGL made from poor quality raws cripples me. Unless the enanthate you shot was Delatestryl or another pharma test enanthate, I would bet on the pain being related to the raw enanthate quality.
    Definitely, go with the more frequent injection schedule. I've suffered through/tried about every protocol, and 2x/week works well for me and it keeps my total T in the upper third of the range, puts my free T just over the top end of the range, and I require little to no aromatase inhibitor.
    As Kel mentioned you'll need to have a sensitive estradiol assay included in your labs in order to determine how much AI you require.
    Last edited by almostgone; 09-16-2017 at 11:52 AM.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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    Faf
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    Thank you dude! What is the dose you're using? And what to you mean by: I require little to no aromatase inhibitor.

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    Faf
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    Ok, I will try to strech what is left of my legit stuff till my next visit to the doctor, wich he admitted last visit that he didn't know enough on TRT and reefer me to and Urologist. Why am I getting does regular night sweat's? Like last night I woke 3 times and had to go get a towel and my bed was soaking wet...Thank"s again Kelkel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faf View Post
    Thank you dude! What is the dose you're using?
    I'm scripted 150mg/week, but only inject .3cc (~60mg) E3.5 days.


    As far as the aromatase inhibitor (arimidex ), I needed ~ .25mg E5D to keep my E2 @ the upper end of the range when on the 150mg once per week protocol.
    On the E3.5D protocol, any a'dex puts me down just above the bottom end of the E2 range. When I first started researching TRT and learning in here from great guys like Kel and Y55guy and several others, I would read their responses and then look at the lab work they were commenting on, and it seems most guys preferred to be @ around 60% of the upper end of the E2 range.
    Keep in mind, it does take a while to get dialed in once you stick to a protocol. Also, once you find your sweet spot, it may change if you have a change in bf levels. Also, it as we age our treatment needs may change. That's why it is necessary to consistently pull more in depth labs than some Drs. order.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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    Faf
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    Thank's again, I see that I've got a lot to learn because I dont understand all of the thing your saying like:E3.5D protocol, + my first language is French (Canadian) but I will check on the web... On the other side, I have an appointment with a Urologist on the 27, hope he will be patient because I have a lot of questions!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faf View Post
    Thank's again, I see that I've got a lot to learn because I dont understand all of the thing your saying like:E3.5D protocol, + my first language is French (Canadian) but I will check on the web... On the other side, I have an appointment with a Urologist on the 27, hope he will be patient because I have a lot of questions!
    E3.5D protocol is a short way of saying the injection schedule is every 3.5 days.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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    Faf
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    Oh! lol Thank's Would you know why I have these night sweats? Like last night got up three times, had to go and get a towel and my bed was soaking wet...

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    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    I'm scripted 150mg/week, but only inject .3cc (~60mg) E3.5 days.


    As far as the aromatase inhibitor (arimidex ), I needed ~ .25mg E5D to keep my E2 @ the upper end of the range when on the 150mg once per week protocol.
    On the E3.5D protocol, any a'dex puts me down just above the bottom end of the E2 range. When I first started researching TRT and learning in here from great guys like Kel and Y55guy and several others, I would read their responses and then look at the lab work they were commenting on, and it seems most guys preferred to be @ around 60% of the upper end of the E2 range.
    Keep in mind, it does take a while to get dialed in once you stick to a protocol. Also, once you find your sweet spot, it may change if you have a change in bf levels. Also, it as we age our treatment needs may change. That's why it is necessary to consistently pull more in depth labs than some Drs. order.
    What through levels 150mg put you at? Just out of curiosity.

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    Faf
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    The Dr prescribed me Cypionate 150mg every 10 day, but I tough it wasn't enough so got some enanthate and use 100-150 3xweek. So now with Kelkel recommandation I will go back to 50-60mg every 3,5 days. But I'm almost out of the legit Cyp. and my next Dr appointment is in 1 month, but I will have my first appointment with a Urologist on the 27, will have to tell him the truth...But for now I dont know where to buy healthy gear and I'm from Canada..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faf View Post
    The Dr prescribed me Cypionate 150mg every 10 day, but I tough it wasn't enough so got some enanthate and use 100-150 3xweek. So now with Kelkel recommandation I will go back to 50-60mg every 3,5 days. But I'm almost out of the legit Cyp. and my next Dr appointment is in 1 month, but I will have my first appointment with a Urologist on the 27, will have to tell him the truth...But for now I dont know where to buy healthy gear and I'm from Canada..
    there are allot of places to get good gear in Canada. But if you're on prescription for it I wouldn't waste my time with UGL test.

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    maybe toomush solvent in the UGL brand you got i unno. but i agree. every 3-4 days or atleast no less than every 7 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    What through levels 150mg put you at? Just out of curiosity.
    Sorry, Bizz, just now saw this. Testing at ~ 10 a.m. on the morning of an injection day:
    Total T = 625 ng/dL on a range of 264-916 ng/dL
    Free T = 22.25 ng/ dL on a range of 5 - 21 ng/dL
    % Free T = 3.56% on a range of 1.5% - 4.2%
    E2 = 21.1 pg/mL on a range of 8 - 35 pg/ mL

    Didn't pull SHBG this time. In May on the same protocol, SHBG was 21.5 nmol/L on a range of 19.3 - 76.4 nmol/L.

    However, I only inject .3 cc E3.5D, so the weekly total would be ~120mg of cyp.I am scripted 150mg per week, but don't require the full dose to.be at a good place.
    Last edited by almostgone; 09-22-2017 at 02:51 AM.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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    Thanks for sharing. Nice to see free T at the top end of range with avg levels and normal SHBG.

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    Faf
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    Hey, just want to thank you, I followed your recommendation and I feel much better and for some reason I'm as strong and my performance is as good, if not better then before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    They set my brother up on once a month with cyp! I told him to tell the doc he wanted to do his own injections and I set him up for 3.5 days between inj.

    Pehaps this is why AAS gets a bad name for "roidrage".
    My brother is not a stable guy anyway and they had him set up for a mental rollercoaster! I will never understand how a doc can prescribe any medicine with total ignorance to the half life and what it can cause. That would have put my brother in the nuthouse.
    Totally agree. I am getting more and more the impression that most doctors don't know sh1t about their jobs. And not just about hormones, but everything else in medicine.

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    Faf
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    Hello, I follow your advise and feel a lot better, thank you!

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    Faf
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    Hello, I follow your advise and feel a lot better, thank you!

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    Faf
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    Next Friday I will have some blood work, but the thing is my doctor doesn't have a clue of the subject, last time I had it done I only had one result: 221. for 179-475 pmol/L

    and it sai
    d: Free testosterone is estimated from measured total testosterone and sex hormone-binding using Vermeulen's argorithm : J Clin Endocrinol Metab 84 (10): 36666-3672, 1999

    seem pretty limited to me, + I dont know what the hell it means? But my question what should I ask him to test for a complet blood work? Thank you

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