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I have researched the differences a fair amount but have yet to find a post stating this. Which is more effective at lowering body fat? HGH or IGF? Or are they the same in that respect? I'm just now learning about the two so any other general tips are appreciated. Thanks.
Effective and efficient are two different things, but I'd say IGF-1 is certainly more efficient at lowering bf. It'll drop bf in less time. Since GH can be used without having to cycle it, you can maybe say GH would be more effective, at least at maintaining a reduced bf.
The 2 would be a great combo;)
JohnnyB
That's possible to do huh? Hadn't considered that yet as I'm just learning about the two as of recent. I guess IGF would be the way to go for me because faster would be better. Just for the sake of not starting another thread, you would run IGF R3 @ ~40mcg a day with something like a 5 on 2 off split right? How long can this be run like that? Thanks for the help. I've tried to get as much as I could from the threads already here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Bump. :help:Quote:
Originally Posted by ECoastVIP
I tried IGF it helped with bf But I would like to try it again and watch my diet better.
What dosage schedule did you use? That's my biggest curiosity right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1victor
Just pluged in,I´d try this time first week 10-60mcg/day,more from day to day and then I´ll try doing 3x/week shots at 30-60mcg,trying to keep receptors fresh and being suspicious that the effects of one shot are of longer duration as one might espect and even little may be useful. :unsure:
(just to try it all out) maybe gettin some gh-response during cycle while on training with high intensity and long duration.
So do you need to go 5 days on 2 days off? How long can you run it?Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBreed
i think the man was clear enough
10-60 mcg/day suggest 6 days on in the first week, and 3x/week means 3 injections weekly. he also said that the space between the shots as well as the dosages should be based on your own observations of your response, but well within the limit of 3x/week and 30-60mcg shots.
What's your experience/knowledge on running IGF?Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBreed
I was reading an interesting article on igf-1 a while back and it seams to be the major concensus that 30-90 mg ED for 50 days is about the best way to run it, then take time off. That's about when your body has tapped all the cell resources it has. It has the ability to help you mainting the mass on a cycle and bring the boys and work for keepoing it pct. This is how I understand it. I'm insanely interested with this topic for long term gains. But as for fat loss I think its best used to help keep fat down wile taking in the heavy amount of callories u need while mass building.
Really, cuz that post was some fairly broken English. Maybe being from Romania you can decipher it a bit better. Sorry I had trouble. I'll try not to let it happen again. :rolleyes: So saying 10-60 mcg a day somehow suggest 6 days out of 7 in the week. OK. I wasn't too lost on the 3x a week thing but he said that's an experiment he's trying to see how the half life works for him. The man was clear enough on that, not sure if you caught it. So translate this for me.Do you mean that (since you said it's obvious he meant 6 days on 1 day off without saying it at all) you should do a minimum of 3 times a week and a maximum of 6 times a week? Please do expedite your grandeous knowledge unto myself and it shall be tremendously appreciated and hopefully some day recipricated. Thanks.Quote:
but well within the limit of 3x/week and 30-60mcg shots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoChamp
Would this apply to IGF R3?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Power
*ROFLMAO*Quote:
Originally Posted by ECoastVIP
I meant to shoot consequently every day the first week(maybe4 maybe 6 or maybe 7 :D ),in a dose where body response is good,then shooting e.g. every second-third day,to maintain receptor sensitivity and maybe to get some gh-pulses due to long and intense training-sessions and competition.
I was wrong with my theory,´cause I didn´t think of sattelite cells,but maybe it helps in that way too-gh is expected to play a role in the first part of mitosis and maybe it helps in regenerating sattelite cells,too?-there has to be something about it,plus to me often less seems to be more.
I did one cycle of IGF LR 3 until now.(40mcg/day/25days and realized a loss in its potency in the 4th week)
Regards,
NewBreed ;) :D
Thank you for appreciating the humor and more importantly filling in some gaps for me. That is why we're all here right? Thanks again. I've got a fairly solid idea of what to attempt now.Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBreed
R3(long) IGF-1...A good base!
R3(long) IGF-1
1: Type- IGF-1 Long R3 (Anything else is not as effective, and if the person providing it for you doesn't know anything about it, you are asking for trouble.)
2. Storage- the most popular (and most effective) way to store, transport, preserve IGF is by suspending it in sterile BA in a sterile vial.
This will keep your IGF 99% potent for many months at a time in just about ANY indoor storage, I.E.-closet, drawer, etc. (Take it from me, I stored mine because I wasn't ready to use it for about 6 months in my closet... I had fears about its potency, then I started my first week, and BAM I practically cleaned out the fridge.
3. Use- Usage should not exceed 4-5 weeks, and an OFF period should be about the same. Daily dosages work best (split up into 2 seems to make little difference in the Long R3 version) Most people see results at about 40mcg/day, some use as low as 30mcg/day, and some folks even use 80-100mcg. I SUGGEST to ALL first time users no matter what level, to start at about 40-50mcg/day.
4. Administration- I believe in IM injections over sub q, but either seems to be effective. I like IM better because IM using a slin pin is probably the least painful thing one could imagine, even at two times per day. Also, sub Q shots that contain BA, even diluted BA, can leave little nodules that you may not want to feel on your stomach.
5. Mixing- Most IGF comes suspended in BA. Hopefully it is @ 500mcg/ml or even 333mcg/ml (that would be at 2ml/mg and 3ml/mg respectively) Draw out your desired amount and back load a slin pin. Add enough Bacteriostatic Water to fill the U100 syringe completely.
Some inject immediately before training, while others choose to do 2 shots spread throughout the day... THEY BOTH WORK WELL. Try both; see which method makes your muscles pop out of your skin.
6. Add plenty of protein, and don’t shy away from carbs immediately after training. I used up to 100g of carbs after training, and my body fat went down, all without cardio.
I hope that helps a little, and I’m glad to be lurking around this board again.
More to come.
MORE
The most effective form of IGF is Long R3 IGF-1, it has been chemically altered and has had amino acid changes, which cause it to avoid binding to proteins in the human body and allow it to have a much longer half-life, around 20-30 hours. "Long R3 IGF-1 is an 83 amino acid analog of IGF-1 comprising the complete human IGF-1 sequence with the substation of an Arg(R) for the Glu (E) at position three, hence R3, and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N terminus. This analog of IGF-1 has been produced with the purpose of increasing the biological activity of the IGF peptide."
"Long R3 IGF-1 is significantly more potent than IGF-1. The enhanced potency is due to the decreased binding of Long R3 IGF-1 to all known IGF binding proteins. These binding proteins normally inhibit the biological actions of IGF's."
It is also not as expensive since a media grade version is available which is sufficient for bodybuilding use. There is also a receptor grade available but it is VERY expensive and the only noticeable difference between the two would only be able to be noticed in a laboratory setting. The price on the black market for Long R3 IGF-1 can be seen anywhere from $300-$500 per milligram depending on the source, be wary of black market dealers of any IGF since it is a VERY difficult item to obtain. As mentioned IGF is a research product and is only available from a few laboratories in the world and is only available to research companies and biotechnology institutions. For the rest of this article when I say IGF I am now referring to Long R3 IGF-1 for simplicity sake.
Any form of IGF is ONLY supplied in a lyophilized form, which means a dry powder state. NEVER PUCHASE PRE-DILUTED LIQUID IGF!!!! There is no such product made anywhere in the world and even if there were real IGF ever present in the vial it would all be dead by the time you receive it. IGF is a very delicate peptide and must be diluted by yourself, where you have access to a refrigerator and freezer. There has also been a lot of talk by certain sources claiming to have IGF made by the Eli Lilly company, to clear things up Lilly is a pharmaceutical company and as stated IGF is a research drug and has not yet been approved, Lilly does not and never has manufactured research drugs for retail sale.
The diluents you will need for the IGF are a weak concentration of hydrochloric acid and a sterile buffer (sterile water or bacteriostatic water) the procedure for diluting the IGF is not very difficult, the diluents can be obtained from most local chemical suppliers and a good source of IGF would also be able to supply the necessary diluents.
The most effective length for a cycle of IGF is 50 days on and 20-40 days off. The most controversy surrounding Long R3 IGF-1 is the effective dosage. The most used dosages range between 20mcg/day to 120+mcg/day. IGF is only available by the milligram, one mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 20mcg/day, 2mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 40mcg/day, 3mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 60mcg/day, 4mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 80mcg/day and so on. The dosage issue mainly revolves around how much money you have to spend, plenty of people use the minimum dosage of 20mcg/day and are happy with the results, and in fact several top bodybuilders use the 20mcg/day dosage and are pleased with the results. IGF is most effective when administered subcutaneous and injected once or twice daily at your current dosage. The best time for injections is either in the morning and/or immediately after weight training.
Another frequently asked question of IGF refers to the real world results; in terms of pure weight gain don't expect to gain 5 lbs. a week like you may off of anadrol or a similar steroid. The only weight you will gain from IGF use is pure lean muscle tissue, with steroids most of the weight gained is water weight. With an effective dosage you can expect to gain 1-2 lbs of new lean muscle tissue every 2-3 weeks and these effects can be increased with the use of testosterone, anabolic steroids, and insulin use. Increased vascularity is also very common, people report seeing veins appear where they never have before. And yet another effect reported is the ability to stay lean while bulking with heavy dosages of steroids and TONS of food while on an IGF cycle, this is perhaps the most pleasing effect. Increased pumps are also noticeable almost immediately, the pumps can almost become painful, and pumps are even noticeable when doing cardio.
Overall, IGF is a very exciting drug due to its ability to alter ones genetic capabilities. If you can find a trustworthy source and you use it correctly it can be a VERY useful tool in your bodybuilding drug arsenal.
Insulin-Like Growth Factor Recombinant 3
IGF-1 R3
IGF1 stands for insulin like growth factor. It mimics insulin in the human body and also at the same time makes the muscles more sensitive to insulin’s effects. It is a growth factor and is the most potent one in the human body at that. IGF causes muscle cell hyperplasia, which is an actual splitting and forming of new muscle cells. This was thought to only be possible during puberty. IGF is much more potent at this effect than growth hormone is, in fact almost all of the effects you see from growth hormone come from the increased amount of IGF that your liver produces when the GH is destroyed. So it would be very easy to say that IGF is a much more potent and cheaper alternative to GH use, although GH is more effective for fat loss than IGF due to some other effects that it causes such as metabolism increase and the ability to effectively use more insulin, T3, and anabolic steroids.
Another advantage that IGF has over GH is that it has much more of an affinity to attach to muscle cells instead of bone and organ cells. Growth hormone has been know to cause a lot of organ enlargement and bone elongation since it attaches to all types of receptor cells. IGF is much more likely to go where we want it, our muscle cells. IGF-1 attaches to myogenic stem cells, which are only located in muscle and connective tissues. These myogenic stem cells are responsible for the production of myoblast cells, which in turn are responsible for the buildup and repair of connective tissues (ligaments, tendons, cartilage, and joints to a certain extent).
So from this you can see that IGF-1 is great for increasing the strength of tendons and also for helping to heal existing injuries while at the same time helping to prevent them. IGF-1 is also responsible for increased protein synthesis and amino acid synthesis.
IGF does not have to be used along with anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, or thyroid hormones to be effective. It causes muscle growth on its own. In fact some people prefer to use it during their breaks from steroid cycles since IGF has no effect on natural test production. It could effectively be used along with HCG, clomid, and PGF2a for a hell of an off cycle stack which would allow your body to return to normal and still allow you to grow!! On its own IGF will give an increase of around 2 lbs. of new solid lean muscle tissue every two weeks, and is also is know for its ability to strip off body fat and GREATLY increase vascularity, body fat decreases of 5-8% over a 50 day cycle are not uncommon. But, of course you will be much happier with the results if you use the IGF along with anabolic steroids, testosterone, and insulin.
The use of steroids along with the IGF allow you to quickly mature and strengthen the new muscle tissue that the IGF has formed, and may also speed the process of hyperplasia. If you need any help setting up a great stack to
use along with the IGF just let me know and I can help you out. I speak with lots of top bodybuilders and guru’s so I am very knowledgeable.
The dosage issue for IGF is where the most controversy lies. Dosages used by competitive athletes most commonly range anywhere between 60mcg/day to 100+mcg/day. The trick is finding the dosage that works best for YOU. For most the best results appear when you reach a dosage of 80mcg/day, while some do
receive good results from only 40mcg/day. I personally feel the best results begin to be noticed at a dosage of 100mcg/day. I personally am using 150mcg/day during my current cycle.
Also I should let you know that the form of IGF is the Long R3 analog. It has been chemically altered and has a longer half-life than regular IGF, which only lasts about 10 minutes in the human body once injected. The Long R3 IGF-1 has a half-life of 6-10 hours, so you will only need to inject once or twice per day. The best time to inject is after lifting and in the morning, so it would be best to use half the dosage in the morning and the other half after lifting. This will take maximal advantage of IGF’s insulin
mimicking effects.
I think taking it ED is better than the layout NewBreed is going to try. That's just my opinion which isn't one of experience.