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  1. #1
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    GH and LR3 IGF-1, no slin - please advise.

    Before anyone angrily tells me to research, I have read just about every thread on IGF & GH in the forum, I just want to clarify a few things. I have also read Jbigdog's and swellin's IGF diaries, the only problem is they both used insulin which I am unwilling to do.

    I will start using the GH in week 8 of my current 12wk cycle and run it right through my 10wk off period then through my next 12wk cycle and 5 weeks after. I will run a dose of 2ius ed off cycle 3ius ed on cycle.

    As for the IGF I am open to suggestions.

    If possible I would like to change body composition i.e. stay at 255lbs but get into single bf digits.

    Please could anyone who has used these two compounds successfully please advise me as to the best way to use them together without slin, with regards to:

    A) Diet - prot gms? carb gms? Timing? Is going hypo a risk of IGF?
    (6'2", 255lbs, 18% bf)

    B) Injection timings & quantities - I was thinking 50mcg split bilaterally PWO (is 30 min still soon enough to get the benefits of PWO?)

    Any advice / suggestions gratefully received.

  2. #2
    DBarcelo's Avatar
    DBarcelo is offline Senior Member
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    I got your PM. I saw this but I didn't answer it because it's not really something I know a whole lot about. But I can help you a little bit.

    I'm not an advocate of taking insulin either. I kind of cringe when I even hear about someone taking it.

    I really don't see the sense in taking GH and IGF at the same time personally, because GH just gets changed into different growth factors in the liver anyway, it's not actually GH itself that's doing anything in your body, it's the different growth factors that are created from it that cause all of the reactions.

    In either case, I would go for 2 grams of protein per lb of body weight every day, spread out as evenly as possible. I would lower my carb intake, because you could have a bout of hyperglycemia from the GH or the IGF.

    You should inject both GH and IGF according to your sleep schedule, which determines the rythem of the production of natural GH. You can ask someone like Einstein about the best timing for each and the best quantity for the IGF. As far as the GH, you want to start off with 1IU and then move up to 2 IU and so on until you reach your maintenance dose and then stay on for 6 days and take one day off (you know all of this stuff already). I think I already told you that most people that do get side effects from GH are from jumping right into a maintence dose.

  3. #3
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    DBarcelo - Thanks bro, appreciate the input.

    Can Einstein, JohnnyB, Swellin, Jbigdog, or any of you other IGF knowledgeable bros help me out?

  4. #4
    cyflex's Avatar
    cyflex is offline Associate Member
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    bump

  5. #5
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    OK guys so how does this look?

    Lifting days - mon, wed, fri.
    6.30am wake & inject 2iu GH subQ
    7.00am breakfast 45g whey + 40g complex carbs
    7.30am lift for 1hr
    8.30am PWO shake 1: 40g prot + 40g simple carbs
    9.00am 50mcg LR3 split bilaterally in muscle worked + PWO shake 2: 40g prot + 40g simple carbs
    (I can't inject immediately PWO as I don't want to take pins etc to gym)

    Cardio days: tues, thurs, sat.
    6.30am wake & inject 2iu GH subQ
    7.00am run for 40 mins
    7.40am prot shake 40g (no carbs to prolong fat burn)
    9.40am 50mcg LR3 split bilaterally in muscle worked previous day + PWO shake : 40g prot + 40g simple carbs

    Meals consumed every 2hrs thereafter so total intake (lifting & cardio days) comes out to 350g prot, 150g carbs. Last 2 meals are carb free.

    Hows that guys - gimme some feedback!

  6. #6
    Da Bull's Avatar
    Da Bull is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotSmall
    Before anyone angrily tells me to research, I have read just about every thread on IGF & GH in the forum, I just want to clarify a few things. I have also read Jbigdog's and swellin's IGF diaries, the only problem is they both used insulin which I am unwilling to do.

    I will start using the GH in week 8 of my current 12wk cycle and run it right through my 10wk off period then through my next 12wk cycle and 5 weeks after. I will run a dose of 2ius ed off cycle 3ius ed on cycle.

    As for the IGF I am open to suggestions.

    If possible I would like to change body composition i.e. stay at 255lbs but get into single bf digits.

    Please could anyone who has used these two compounds successfully please advise me as to the best way to use them together without slin, with regards to:

    A) Diet - prot gms? carb gms? Timing? Is going hypo a risk of IGF?
    (6'2", 255lbs, 18% bf)

    B) Injection timings & quantities - I was thinking 50mcg split bilaterally PWO (is 30 min still soon enough to get the benefits of PWO?)

    Any advice / suggestions gratefully received.
    I've used HGH and IGF together,and i can tell you it's a great stack.No need for slin with these two hormones.You'll need to run the HGH for a minumum of 3 months.At week 8 is when I'd start the IGf as the HGH will finally be starting to kick in.
    Since you're new at this.I'd suggest 2 ius in the morning,then 2 iu's around 2pm.When you start the IGF,run 40 mcgs bi laterally PWO.

  7. #7
    Da Bull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBarcelo

    I really don't see the sense in taking GH and IGF at the same time personally, because GH just gets changed into different growth factors in the liver anyway, it's not actually GH itself that's doing anything in your body, it's the different growth factors that are created from it that cause all of the reactions.
    I disagree with your comment.That EXACTLY what you want.More HGH produces more IGF.Hence more growth.

  8. #8
    Swellin Guest
    I have run IGF, but not IGF and GH together. I know DB has. I have read that you can reduce the amount of gh administered, when you add IGF to your regimen. IMO, that would simply be a waste. Take a look at how DB just told you to run this. I would give that a shot if it were me.
    Run the GH sub-Q and the IGF IM, bi-laterally into the muscle you just worked...just like you have it listed.

    Einy or JohnnyB might have more to add to this...give it a bit, and we shall see.

  9. #9
    JohnnyB's Avatar
    JohnnyB is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    I think HGH and LR3 would be great together, I'll be adding LR3 to my HGH/test/tren enan cycle next week. It got put off for 2 week but will start for sure next week.

    JohnnyB

  10. #10
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    Da Bull, Swellin & JohnnyB - Thanks for the feedback guys I really appreciate it!

    As far as the diet side of things goes, does it look OK?

    Have I got sufficient carbs, and am I timing them OK to prevent going hypo?

    I noticed a few guys saying they ate some slow burning carbs before bed to avoid going hypo in their sleep - at present I avoid carbs in my last two meals to help with cutting up, should I change this?

    Thanks again for the feedback so far bros - I'm nearly there so keep it coming!

  11. #11
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    jbigdog69 is offline Banned
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    Per your PM...Dabull's advice is right on target.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bull
    I've used HGH and IGF together,and i can tell you it's a great stack.No need for slin with these two hormones.You'll need to run the HGH for a minumum of 3 months.At week 8 is when I'd start the IGf as the HGH will finally be starting to kick in.
    Since you're new at this.I'd suggest 2 ius in the morning,then 2 iu's around 2pm.When you start the IGF,run 40 mcgs bi laterally PWO.
    If you decide to do the Igf-1 sooner then just remember to get those carbs in and as far as hypo with a good amount of carbs during the day is a non-issue. Also, it would be a good idea to carb load with a high amount of protein PWO which will help raise your natural insulin levels therefore mimicking a slin shot. IMO...I will drop my hgh from 4 iu's a day to 2 iu's a day for my next IGF-1 run. My reasoning behind this is one overlapping the other. Why waste my HGH when I'm getting more then enough IGF-1 during my Igf-1 cycle??? Hope this helps...Peace

    Vet@ BigdogBodybuilding
    Vet@ Anabolic Impact
    Last edited by jbigdog69; 08-17-2004 at 12:49 PM.

  12. #12
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    jbigdog - Thanks for the feedback bro!

    All you guys have been so helpful, this board is sh1t-hot!

    Anybody got anything else they think I should be aware of before I get started?

  13. #13
    DBarcelo's Avatar
    DBarcelo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bull
    I disagree with your comment.That EXACTLY what you want.More HGH produces more IGF.Hence more growth.

    Yes, it would mean more growth, but it also means a higher risk of side effects. Also raises the chances of gigantia.

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