Growth hormone questions- i need help from the pros!

**marlin444** · 08-24-2004, 11:25 PM

hey im starting a gh only cycle. i have naturally have barly any fat on me, so i dont think i will react like most of you will. im 5'9 175, and im looking to slowly add some new muscle tissue, to later blow up with some juice. im not looking for explosive gains, just some fresh, muscle cells to later abuse.

i have a few questions though:
1. would it be better to run 3 ui's ed, or 4 uis 5 on 2 off?
2. when is the best time to take it? im currently taking 1.5 ui's in the am, and 1.5 before bed. should i start taking it before the gym maybe?
3. how does gh react with nitic oxide supliments like no2, nox3, nitrix, etc...
4. what should i expect to see after maybe 6 months of just gh at my dosage?
5. im figuring on cycling about 3 months into it for a short, 8-12 week cycle. is this the optimal time?
6. what are the sides i should keep an eye out for?
7. think a 5 day isolation split will be good for generating new muscle tissue?

i want to do everything as best as possible from my diet, to my sleep, to my routine. im wasting $1.9 per ui on this crap, which is a pretty good price in my books, but multiply that by 3 uis a day, 30 days a month, and 6 months - thats over a grand! pluss over 350 insulin pins! crazyness!

ANY imput would be greatly apreciated. especially from you einstein thanks for the great posts ive learnt a lot from you.

**moush** · 08-25-2004, 09:53 AM

hey bro talk to buylongterm he can help you out he just did HGH...

**BUYLONGTERM** · 08-25-2004, 10:18 AM

I got a PM from a good bro and here is my response to his questions which are related to your questions

..Remember, this is just my experience.

First off how old are you? If your under 30, I think GH will be a waste because your body is producing an all time high of it.

Now, to answer some of your questions.....

1. Can HGH be taken alone - Yes, but it depends on what you want out of it. Right after my 1st cycle, I started taking GH alone. I couldn't lift due to a bad shoulder. So, for 4 months I was just taking GH. During this time, I was eating and drinking like a pig. No matter what I ate or drank, I kept losing weight. It honestly got to the point where I almost quit taking it. Also, I noticed I felt amazing, and my immune system was through the roof!!!!!

2. How many shots? - You have to shoot ED! Some guys do 5 days on, 2 days off. I shot ED.

3. What kind of needle is used for HGH - A slin needle

4. How long does a kit last for? I would say (again, depends on the dose, and depends on the kit), but it should last a month or more. Most kits are about 100iu's. So, if you do 2/3iu's ED (what I did), It will last longer. Also, remember, most GH has to be refrigerated as soon as you get it. (thats why they have to fed X'd) Now, I used Serostim. You don't have to refrigerate it until you mix the power with the water. It's more expensive, but definitely worth it. Oh yeah, never use the water that comes with the kit. Buy some Bacteriostatic water. It will allow the GH to last up to 2 weeks vs. a couple of days. It's very cheap. 5.00 for 30ml.

5. Lastly where do you inject HGH - You inject it sub-Q. So, all you have to do is pull back the skin by your stomach and inject. It's absolutely pain free. Plus, GH is known to help reduce body fat where you inject, so I always did love handles and my stomach area.

When is the best time to take it? This is a huge debate. I tried both and morning seemed to work best for me.

Some other side notes.

I would say keep doing research. Learn as much as you can before taking the plunge. It will take up to 3 months for you to start noticing results. I did it for 9 months. The longer your on, the better. The first few weeks suck, because of the sides. I got bad pain in my joints and wrists. But my buddy said, stick with it, it will go away. It did! Most people will tell you to do 4 iu's ED. I tried that dose, but the sides came back and I had to lower the dose. Find out what works for you. Again, depending what results you want to get, dosage will play a big role. I also continued GH while on my 2nd cycle, and I didn't see any difference. I again, think in order for GH to help someone get "big" while on a cycle, One has to do over 4iu's.....

The question I get asked most, is was it worth it? At the time, I was paying a whopping 650.00 per kit! At that price, I would say NO. But, I now can get it for half that so I would probably do it again.

Pro's for me.
1. Fat loss - It was pretty amazing!!!!
2. Immune system. (I have kids who are always sick during the winter and I usually get sick because of them. However, while I was on GH, I never got sick!!!!)
3. Great sense of "well being". I honestly felt fantastic while on it.
4. I noticed better muscle seperation.

Cons
1. I was disappointed again while taking it with a cycle. I noticed it really didn't add any "value" with my cycle. But, again, I was on a low dose
2. I wanted to take 4iu's, but the sides weren't worth it.
3. Price, again, I can now get it cheaper, but you will pay anywhere from 350.00-1,000.00 for a kit and you will need at least 3 kits.

Here's a good link to show you how to mix and inject it.

http://www.ghmedical.com/ghhowto2.htm

**Foxy Sphinx** · 08-25-2004, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

First off how old are you? If your under 30, I think GH will be a waste because your body is producing an all time high of it.

Ur a good guy buy, and ur overview of GH is good. But I dont agree with this remark.

Yes, he prolly SHOULDNT take GH if he doesnt need it which would be below 40 to be honest. Yes a human produces more GH in their teens and there is a REASON for this.

Now maybe its just me, but I always thought bb'ers used GH to reach supraphysiological GH levels not just HRT levels. At 30+ you need to take more GH to reach supraphysiological levels that you can acheive with less exogenous GH at a younger age. In otherwords somone 20 years old could take 6iu/ed GH and itd be like theyre taking 8iu/ed, but sum1 at 40 could take 6iu/ed GH and itd be like theyre taking 6.75iu/ed. Whose more likely to acheive more growth on supraphysiological scale? The younger person clearly. But that younger person doesnt NEED GH, they dont need HRT. But if using GH to make best results possible, then ideally a user 14-20 whose having peak GH levels would be most appropriate candidate for economical : effective ratio.

**Da Bull** · 08-25-2004, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Ur a good guy buy, and ur overview of GH is good. But I dont agree with this remark.

Yes, he prolly SHOULDNT take GH if he doesnt need it which would be below 40 to be honest. Yes a human produces more GH in their teens and there is a REASON for this.

Now maybe its just me, but I always thought bb'ers used GH to reach supraphysiological GH levels not just HRT levels. At 30+ you need to take more GH to reach supraphysiological levels that you can acheive with less exogenous GH at a younger age. In otherwords somone 20 years old could take 6iu/ed GH and itd be like theyre taking 8iu/ed, but sum1 at 40 could take 6iu/ed GH and itd be like theyre taking 6.75iu/ed. Whose more likely to acheive more growth on supraphysiological scale? The younger person clearly. But that younger person doesnt NEED GH, they dont need HRT. But if using GH to make best results possible, then ideally a user 14-20 whose having peak GH levels would be most appropriate candidate for economical : effective ratio.

First off...HGH starts to decline at 25 yrs of age,not 20.
Secondly..no one really has any reason to use HGH under 30 years of age,unless they are in competitive bodybuilding.It's that simple.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 08-25-2004, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Ur a good guy buy, and ur overview of GH is good. But I dont agree with this remark.

Yes, he prolly SHOULDNT take GH if he doesnt need it which would be below 40 to be honest. Yes a human produces more GH in their teens and there is a REASON for this.

Now maybe its just me, but I always thought bb'ers used GH to reach supraphysiological GH levels not just HRT levels. At 30+ you need to take more GH to reach supraphysiological levels that you can acheive with less exogenous GH at a younger age. In otherwords somone 20 years old could take 6iu/ed GH and itd be like theyre taking 8iu/ed, but sum1 at 40 could take 6iu/ed GH and itd be like theyre taking 6.75iu/ed. Whose more likely to acheive more growth on supraphysiological scale? The younger person clearly. But that younger person doesnt NEED GH, they dont need HRT. But if using GH to make best results possible, then ideally a user 14-20 whose having peak GH levels would be most appropriate candidate for economical : effective ratio.

I have to agree with Da bull. Unless someone is very serious about competetive Bobdy building, It's a waste. You can achieve great results with AS alone. You have to remember a couple of things. First off, My post was a response to a guy who was 22 years old and was looking to lose fat and get general info. As I told him, I honestly think it would be a waste of money at that age. 2nd, I would never tell someone in their early 20's to do 8iu's of GH. Thats crazy!!!!! Like I said in my post, it really depends on what the person wants out of it. I can't tell you how many guys PM me asking me if they should do GH to help lose weight. I rarely get PM's from guys who want to use it to get HUGE. Obviously there are guys who want that, but all I did was give a first hand experience (quick overview) of my results. I still don't feel comfortable telling someone in their early 20's to do GH. Hell, some guys are still in the process of growing!!!!!

Peace bro,

BLT

**Foxy Sphinx** · 08-25-2004, 11:25 AM

Fair Enuff.

8iu's is not much GH to some. I think its a hefty load to (in use for fat loss), but im sure ronnie puts more than that in his corn flakes every morning.

On topic...
I think you'd be best to combine GH with test so that as new cells are proliferated they can mature faster than genetically pre-determined. If you dont wanna use AAS yet, then dont be using GH either. You said urself u have low fat, no need to use the GH, you'd beneift more from a DHT derivative.

**Da Bull** · 08-25-2004, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Fair Enuff.

8iu's is not much GH to some. I think its a hefty load to (in use for fat loss), but im sure ronnie puts more than that in his corn flakes every morning.

On topic...
I think you'd be best to combine GH with test so that as new cells are proliferated they can mature faster than genetically pre-determined. If you dont wanna use AAS yet, then dont be using GH either. You said urself u have low fat, no need to use the GH, you'd beneift more from a DHT derivative.

We don't have ronnie colemans on this board.It's full of young guys looking for a quick fix to thier problems,and will do anything to over come that.
You need to seriously think before you type in responses.

**Foxy Sphinx** · 08-25-2004, 01:05 PM

Wether you want to gain 100 lbs of muscle, or 20 lbs of muscle, you train, eat, and live like somone who wants to gain the 100 lbs, you just switch to maintance sooner.

This includes juice/GH if your goal is out of reach. But wtf is your prob anyways, im telling this guy NOT to use GH, but at least im telling them THE WHOLE TRUTH and not just giving them ONE SIDE of the picture like many people here do. I understand you do so-so that these people dont get the ideas in their head, but thats not fair, everyone deserves to know everything, not just what you think is best for them.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 08-25-2004, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx

Wether you want to gain 100 lbs of muscle, or 20 lbs of muscle, you train, eat, and live like somone who wants to gain the 100 lbs, you just switch to maintance sooner.

This includes juice/GH if your goal is out of reach. But wtf is your prob anyways, im telling this guy NOT to use GH, but at least im telling them THE WHOLE TRUTH and not just giving them ONE SIDE of the picture like many people here do. I understand you do so-so that these people dont get the ideas in their head, but thats not fair, everyone deserves to know everything, not just what you think is best for them.

Well, we all have a right to an opinion. I do NOT fault you for that. But again, as Da bull said, we as members have a right to give the best, safest, advise we can give. It is then up to the individual to make a responsible decision. But, I totally have to disagree with you when you say 8iu's isn't that much! Yeah, not much for a Professional body builder, but for a young new guy? Thats crazy and can be dangerous!!!! Especially for someone who might not be done growing!

Peace,

BLT

**Pale Horse** · 08-25-2004, 01:44 PM

Maybe he's seeking the cro magnan type of look, enlarged forhead, elongated jaw, ya know things like that. I have never run HGH but I sure as Hel* would not run it that high without experience. Foxy what is your experience with HGH and dosages taken?

**Badgerman** · 08-25-2004, 01:47 PM

It's all about going beyond ones genetic potential. If GH can take you beyond your genetic height and weight and you want to start it early like the docs do....why not??
The drug is certainly used in adolescents......what's the big problem?

**Pale Horse** · 08-25-2004, 01:49 PM

Badger I see your point but when it's done that way it's highly monitored for adverse effects.

**Da Bull** · 08-25-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Badgerman

It's all about going beyond ones genetic potential. If GH can take you beyond your genetic height and weight and you want to start it early like the docs do....why not??
The drug is certainly used in adolescents......what's the big problem?

They use HGH for children with growing disorders.

Docs use GH early...WTF?

It's more than obvious to me you know nothing about HGH or it's medical uses.So I won't waste a minute more with you.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 08-25-2004, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Badgerman

It's all about going beyond ones genetic potential. If GH can take you beyond your genetic height and weight and you want to start it early like the docs do....why not??
The drug is certainly used in adolescents......what's the big problem?

One of the main purposes of GH is to help with dwarfism. No flame bro, but your post is very ignorant. Yeah, the drugs are used in adolescents to treat growth issues, but for one its done under a Dr's care and do you realize how small of a dose they use? The big problem is you tell a young guy who hasn't stopped growing to do GH, the sides are permanent! HGH is nothing to play around with! It is a very serious drug. I can't stress that enough.

**marlin444** · 08-25-2004, 03:37 PM

haha **** i saw 12 replys i figured i had a bunch of help! but all i got was a debate that dont relate to my questions. thanks buy longterm btw. you gave me some usefull info. to straighten things up im only 21, and i know my body is producing its own gh naturally. im running a very low dosage (3ui's a day), so in addition to my natural gh i should be at about 4.5. i dont think my body is naturally producing more than 2 ui's a day. ive been on for 1 week, and have not noticed any sides. im not trying to get huge, im just trying to develop some more muscle cells. id be VERY happy to see 5 pounds per kit (excluding the first kit). keep in mind each kit will last 40 days for me.

**Badgerman** · 08-25-2004, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

One of the main purposes of GH is to help with dwarfism. No flame bro, but your post is very ignorant. Yeah, the drugs are used in adolescents to treat growth issues, but for one its done under a Dr's care and do you realize how small of a dose they use? The big problem is you tell a young guy who hasn't stopped growing to do GH, the sides are permanent! HGH is nothing to play around with! It is a very serious drug. I can't stress that enough.

Where do you draw the line on what is "tall enough" or "big enough"?
What we need to see are studies with young patients just pefore puberty and shorty after with "normal" GH levels.
Does GH supplementation increase final stature? Does GH cause permanent sides? What about anavar and GH in a normal kid that's going to be on the small side instead of a dwarf? Does it cause permanent sides? In one study I saw the anavar resulted in test suppression then later there was a rebound effect which resulted in a test increase over baseline.
The basic problem is one of medical ethics. GH would not be approved for use in "normal" kids so how will we ever know?

**Badgerman** · 08-25-2004, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by 1victor

Maybe he's seeking the cro magnan type of look, enlarged forhead, elongated jaw, ya know things like that. I have never run HGH but I sure as Hel* would not run it that high without experience. Foxy what is your experience with HGH and dosages taken?

Yeah.....maybe he wants to run for prez!!

**BUYLONGTERM** · 08-25-2004, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Badgerman

Where do you draw the line on what is "tall enough" or "big enough"?
What we need to see are studies with young patients just pefore puberty and shorty after with "normal" GH levels.
Does GH supplementation increase final stature? Does GH cause permanent sides? What about anavar and GH in a normal kid that's going to be on the small side instead of a dwarf? Does it cause permanent sides? In one study I saw the anavar resulted in test suppression then later there was a rebound effect which resulted in a test increase over baseline.
The basic problem is one of medical ethics. GH would not be approved for use in "normal" kids so how will we ever know?

I think your missing my point. If anyone can find me one study that shows high levels of GH at a young age isn't dangerous, then I will be shell shocked! What I'm saying is this. sure, small doses of GH or Anavar under medical supervision might be beneficial depending on the condition. But, We aren't Dr.'s. So, again, it's our duty to help point young guys in the right direction. So, If anyone thinks that giving a young person 8iu's ED isn't harmful in the long run, they'd better back it up with some serious studies. Like you said, there might not even be studies showing that. So, again, I say the best advise you can give someone (who barely knows anything about GH) is to be extremely careful and don't go doing big doses of it. I also think the responsible thing to do is stear young guys away from it. Lets not even talk about the $$ issue. Here's the thing. Most guys who post or PM me, want a quick fix to lose weight. They think GH is a miracle drug that will get you there. I say, diet and cardio. Bust your ass. Save your $$$.

Also, when you say "GH isn't approved for you kids, how would we know?" Exactly. A normal kid thats still in the process of growing shouldn't be risking doing it. You know as well as I that there are many permanent sides to GH and it scares me to think what could happen to someone whos taking it at an early age because someone on the board say go ahead you'll be fine!!!

Peace,

BLT

**Redz122** · 08-25-2004, 09:26 PM

ok, i was extremely malnourished for a year and a half starting at 15 years old. I am now 18 and have not grown since. Like young anorexics, i now have a fully developed skull with a underdeveloped body(narrow and drooping shoulders, long and skinny neck, long torso, small genitals) Will HGH use harm my body any further than what i have done in the past?

I feel as if I have not reached my potential height since I am 4 inches shorter than my brother who is 11 months older than me(we are basically twins, we look almost identical, when i was a kid i always grew to my brothers height each year when he was of that age, he has a considerably bigger penis than me, etc) I stood at 5'11 155 lbs 10 months ago and I have gained 30 lbs since. Is it possible that i can reach my potential size at this age and on if i were to continue eating properly?

**angelxterminator** · 08-25-2004, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

I think your missing my point. If anyone can find me one study that shows high levels of GH at a young age isn't dangerous, then I will be shell shocked! What I'm saying is this. sure, small doses of GH or Anavar under medical supervision might be beneficial depending on the condition. But, We aren't Dr.'s. So, again, it's our duty to help point young guys in the right direction. So, If anyone thinks that giving a young person 8iu's ED isn't harmful in the long run, they'd better back it up with some serious studies. Like you said, there might not even be studies showing that. So, again, I say the best advise you can give someone (who barely knows anything about GH) is to be extremely careful and don't go doing big doses of it. I also think the responsible thing to do is stear young guys away from it. Lets not even talk about the $$ issue. Here's the thing. Most guys who post or PM me, want a quick fix to lose weight. They think GH is a miracle drug that will get you there. I say, diet and cardio. Bust your ass. Save your $$$.

Also, when you say "GH isn't approved for you kids, how would we know?" Exactly. A normal kid thats still in the process of growing shouldn't be risking doing it. You know as well as I that there are many permanent sides to GH and it scares me to think what could happen to someone whos taking it at an early age because someone on the board say go ahead you'll be fine!!!

Peace,

BLT

bro if you refer back to what foxy sphinx said, i think you are confused. the 8iu/day he gave was a rough estimate of what naturally occured in the body, plus external supplementation. 8iu/day is no good in any case IMO. i believe he said 2iu/day and that was added to an estimated 6iu/day natural, coming to the 8iu figure....

just trying to clear some confusion!