Is 16-20 weeks of Gh enough

I am possibly going to be running Jino on my next cycle. 31 yo 5'10 215 18% bf will be triming down before I start. My question is this....If I am going to be running a cycle consisting of Jino, Test E, Dbol and winny is 16-20 weeks of Jino going provide me w/ any decent results? I will run the test e 14 weeks, the Dbol the first 5 weeks, and the winny weeks 10-14. Also, should I still take Nolvadex @ 20 mg each day and run the clomid therapy 2 weeks after my last Test E shot?

Need just the last little bit of advice. Thanks!

I wouldn't use nolva during an HGH cycle, I wouldn't use the 17aa's either. Go 16-18 weeks with the test and 20 with the HGH.

I'll get a study on nolva, HGH and IGF-1

JohnnyB

posted by FContact on premiermuscle

Study on the Effects of Tamoxifen on GH and IGF-1 Levels
Effect of tamoxifen on GH and IGF-1 serum level in stage I-II breast cancer patients.

Mandala M, Moro C, Ferretti G, Calabro MG, Nole F, Rocca A, Munzone E, Castro A, Curigliano G.

Division of Medical Oncology, European Institute of Oncology, Via Ripamonti 435, 20141-Milan, Italy. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: Tamoxifen suppresses insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) plasma levels in early and advanced breast cancer patients. Relationships between tamoxifen (GH) and IGF-1 are complex and not completely described yet. The present investigation was performed to evaluate the effect of acute and chronic tamoxifen administration on GH response to growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH), as well as on IGF-1 serum levels.

MATERIALS AND METHODS: Evaluation of GH after administration of GHRH was performed (a) at baseline, (b) 3 hours after 20 mg oral administration of tamoxifen and (c) after 12 weeks of 20 mg a day oral tamoxifen treatment, in fifteen postmenopausal stage I-II breast cancer patients. IGF-I was measured at baseline and after chronic tamoxifen administration. RESULTS: The GH response to GHRH was significantly reduced after 12 weeks of tamoxifen 10 mg administered twice a day orally (mean peak 3.2 +/- 0.2 micrograms/l, mean AUC 261.3 +/- 18.2 micrograms/minute p < 0.01 versus basal AUC). A concomitant significant reduction of IGF-1 was observed after 3 months of tamoxifen treatment. Basal pretreatment levels of 113.2 +/- 15.5 micrograms/l were suppressed to 70 +/- 7.9 micrograms/l (p < 0.01).

CONCLUSION: Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction in response to GHRH stimulation.

When treating cancer most if not all patients have high IGf-1 level, so these drug to treat the cancer lower IGF-1 levels. Which you are trying to raise by taking HGH. That's why all the talk about getting cancer started when LR3 IGF-1 came out. But if you're predisposed to cancer AAS will advance it as well as HGH or LR3 IGF-1, because AAS raises IGF-1 levels too.

My suggestion would be to not use the nolva or any anti-e during HGH use. There's one study that shows femara raised IGF-1 levels but it was only one study there have not been any other to show this.

D-bol at your b/f level isn't a good idea either and winny I don't like because of what it does to your BP and lipid profile.

Test/HGH with the right diet will get you b/f down plus cardio.

JohnnyB

Johnny do you think a low dose of Nolva daily would hurt? I am running AQ right now at 1.5 iu a day. I am getting ready to start var and Nolva will be an important part of the cycle to protect lipids. I hate to be wasting GH though. Is it possible it inhibits natural GH production and that supplementing would be a postivie thing? btw when using a lower dose like my 1.5iu which I am doing am would you split it into two doses?

I couldn't say for sure, I like to be on the safe side and not use something can possibly have a negitive effect of something as expensive as HGH

JohnnyB

I could be wrong as I'm not very good at reading these studies, but it reads to me as if the study was on endo GH and IGF-1. So if anything nolva suppresses endo GH and IGF-1, which obviously is not a desirable effect, but the study seems to say nothing about nolva reducing gains from exo GH.
Am I reading it wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NotSmall

I could be wrong as I'm not very good at reading these studies, but it reads to me as if the study was on endo GH and IGF-1. So if anything nolva suppresses endo GH and IGF-1, which obviously is not a desirable effect, but the study seems to say nothing about nolva reducing gains from exo GH.
Am I reading it wrong?

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No you're reading it right, there's is another study that show the reduction was caused by an increase in IGF-1 Binding Protein as well, which I can't find for some reason. I'll look for it.

JohnnyB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyB

My suggestion would be to not use the nolva or any anti-e during HGH use. There's one study that shows femara raised IGF-1 levels but it was only one study there have not been any other to show this

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How can you say he shouldn't use Anti-Estrogens while you recommend Test with the GH?
You should always use Anti-estrogens while on compounds that can aromatize and there are numerous studies showing Letrozole (active ingredient in Femera) raising systemic IGF-1...
(Nolva decreases it since it is a SERM).
And there is no harm in using an oral with GH, especially something like Anavar which studies predict to be a great combo with GH
(I think it's because Anavar lowers the chance of potential bottlenecks while supplementing GH and by this I mean the chain in which GH can function optimally for growth like Neuropeptides, Growth Factors, Interleukines, Insuline and Thyroid-hormones to name a few; since it is still used in developement countries to stimulate natural GH release in children with Growth disorders, offcourse I have no idea which part of that feedbacksystem Anavar stimulates since good detailed studies on steroids/androgens on humans are rare... )

Greets
Kingofmasters

You will see good results because of the cycle but if you were
just going to run gh you would want to do it longer.