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I just read a post by mallet that talked about timing slin w/gh. He also said that its crucial to your results to use them together. Does that mean I should use slin throughout my entire gh cycle? Currently I am into my 5th week of humalog now 10iu PWO only. Should I continue to use slin PWO for the entire duration of my GH regimen? Does this apply to t-3 as well?
Insulin is necessary for the anabolic action of GH...I'll post some more info up about this again, I see this topic is coming back around again. Insulin also increases and activates GHR (growth hormone receptors) in the liver, whereas IGF has the opposite effects? Last year my endo teacher did a paper on GH and basically stating>> without slin you will just get fat! If your dose of GH was at 1iu 3 times a week this wouldn't have the same effect on your insulin resistance, but sinse we are talking about 4-5iu's 5-7 days a week the large increase in GH has a negative effcet on insulin secreation and binding to receptors (which mimmics insulinemia). I'm starting GH and slin next week, I'll post my step by step procedure and results, with dosing and timing etc... there is no comparison with doing GH without slin compared to the added anabolic action of adding slin.
Should one use insulin throught the entire GH cycle?
I personally do shorter GH cycles..I limit my use to 4-8 weeks with amazing results, so in this case i use the slin all the way through. In the past I would use slin for 4 weeks then switch to metformin which had a profound effect on liver glycogen, but not so much on blood concentrations. I think you would be amazed at the gains one can make with slin and GH taken together in a short period of time. Last time i did GH and slin together with a low dose of prop and fina, my bench went up 50lbs from one week to the next not to mention 4 plate squats felt like warmups... :D The water retention was considerable even though i was usind short esters..I also gained 25lbs in 4 weeks, most guys don't get that in 3-6 months of GH use when leaving out slin.
Bro 4 weeks on 4 off with slin, Dayum Bro 8 weeks fo slin
JohnnyB
I thought it take 12 weeks on GH before you start seeing anything at all? How is it possible to make gains on 4 weeks of gh? Please tell me! How were you using the gh and slin together? GH 2x a day, slin PWO only? Please tell!
GH 2iu's at 8:00am and again at 2:00pm...this is when cortisol levels are at their peak!..Insulin within 2 hours after GH administration. If for some reason you cannot take GH at these two times then do all 4iu's at once..timing is very important. Humalog at 8-10iu's works well. I do empty stomach cardio at 6:30-7:30am then GH at 8:00, 2 hours after I check my BG reading then administer slin along with simple carbs and protein, then i wait 1 hour and take in more simple carbs as well as 12g of creatine and 5g of glutamine. Have an afternoon nap from 12:00-2:00 then do my second GH shot, then it's off to the gym and then my second set of slin for PWO with the same supplementing as outlined above, except i sometimes swap the creatine out for protein for the second shake. I realize most people can't adhere to this regimne, so going 4iu's as close to 8:00am would be your best bet, then doing slin within the 2 hour window to promote the added anabolic effects of GH. Taking slin again later in the day PWO is fine as well because your BG levels generally stay high throughout the day when doing high doses of GH. Taking your GH in the early hours of the day may prevent the supression of your nocturnal release (the free stuff). I should also add that i supplement with 25mcgs of t3 as well throughout because of the slight inhibition of the thyroid gland. And then it's off to the races, you'll be surprised by the end of the first month you'll be ready to stop because the growth will be so fast and extreme, atleast that's the case with me. I once had to stop after only three weeks because I couldn't deal with all the new found weight that quickly, Oh i should mention i was dieting at the time as well..hehehe.Quote:
Originally Posted by big4nuthin
I know Johnny we advocate the safe use of slin and short durations for the novice but the pancreas is a gland just like the thyroid, pituitary etc...very resiliant and capable of enduring long periods of shut down..well basically GH is doing this for us to a large degree, which is like having insulinemia.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
Big4nuthin as for Mallett that weight he gained was attributed mainly to insulin. GH is great but you don't notice the anabolic effect for a few months at the earliest. If you want to see gains on GH you have to stay on it for like 4-6 months (not the same w/everyone) but in that time whatever gains u get from GH you will keep. So you can have an idea of a slin stack this what I am currently taking: 20 units of GH along with 20 units slin humalog at 5am, 20 units of humalog PWO at 9am and 20 units of GH along with 20 units slin humalog around 3pm and 15 units of slin 2hrs. before I go to sleep. This is a serious slin stack plus I'm running anadrol,sustanon, cypionate, and I'll add some T3 and IGF1 soon. Don't get it twisted I didn't start my slin at 75units/day this is week 6 and since my slin has increased to 20un 3-4x's a day I have experienced phenomenal gains. :lift:
wow! some very intresting stuff! Anyone else? One question about gh at 8 am and the again a 2 pm. What if I am sleeping at 8 am and wont get up until 10-11 am? Can i take my shot at 11 and then another at 4 pm?
Holy moly! :eek: Are you serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysLiftHeavy
Yeah when you learn your body and u can handle stuff you are good to go this is also including 1000mg of sust. and 600mg of cyp and 400-500mg of anad. per week. If you wanna be big then...when it comes to gear you have to push the envelope.
I would disagree completely that GH doesn't give you any anabolic effects for 3 months or more? And those slin doses your taking, i'm surprised your not getting extremely fat..that high of slin will ceratinly cause you to spill over..80 units of slin a day is astrnomical? especially note on your slin before bed dosing..wow that's a LITTLE CRAZY! Also 20iu of GH a day as well would cause some serious health risks (high BP, carpel tunnel, insulinemia) to name a few..not to mention who would need to take 20iu's of GH a day when most people do well 4iu's a day. I've gone as high as 9iu's a day and noticed no increased effects, unless you include side effects.
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Originally Posted by AlwaysLiftHeavy
I've debated this with my endo teacher for some time now...for example what about night shift workers..his reply "get a day job" you would seriously have to have a blood panel done to check when your cortisol and dhea were at their peak levels in relation to your rest patterns.
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Originally Posted by big4nuthin
The whole night working thing is crazy I did it for five years and slin is the hardest thing to run and work 3rd as for the GH my training partner competes on a national level if I said his name you'd probably know him and he takes the same amount of GH but less slin and we are getting great gains I went from 195 in two weeks I was 210 and I'll weigh again in another 2 weeks and let u know....as for the slin it's humalog so that's why I can take it 3hrs or so before I go to sleep I know how to eat I'm not some rookie I've used slin before and as far as fat well I have a super fast metabolism and I get a lil gut but if it goes to far I just pull some of my fat out but for the most part I don't care when my stomach goes out there so does everything else...like I said it's about you and what risks you are willing to take If you take 4-7iu's of GH and it works for you then great...and if you think what I'm doing is a lot you should see guys in the IFBB...when you want to get a pro card one day then you'll do whatever it takes.
i put on 20 l.b.s in 10 days on 4iu of gh,it was my first time i went on it,i went from 192lbs to 212lbs.i took with it 1000 mg.enanthate a week,600 mg.deca a week and 400mg.prop a week,thats it no slin at this time until a month later.i am now at 6 iu a day five days a week of gh and thinking of taking it seven days a week according to some pros.i met at my competition.i now use slin 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off,only at 6-8 ui so far and only on training days post workout,once a day only.i am now bigger and a lot stronger than ever,train like an animal in the gym and getting ready for a few more competitions next year.i am massing up,i eat as soon as i take gh,i dont wait 1 hour like a lot predict and i am big and shredded alwready.i dont know if my jintropin comes with sterile water or not,i hear bw does the job better,if anyone knows id appreciate the help,all i know is i am a lot bigger and stronger than ever,its working for me.
i put on 20 l.b.s in 10 days on 4iu of gh,it was my first time i went on it,i went from 192lbs to 212lbs.i took with it 1000 mg.enanthate a week,600 mg.deca a week and 400mg.prop a week,thats it no slin at this time until a month later.
20lbs in 10 days???? GH never kicks in that quick. Enanthate, Deca around week 4. Sorry dude i don't buy it.
I think we need to clear up a few things about GH...One is that GH starts working instantly, it doesn't take 2-3 months to start working or see the anabolic effects. I think the biggest reason people don't see what they consider "anabolic effcets" of GH for several months is that fact that they are not taking slin with their GH..slin is necessary for the anabolic effcets of GH, after administering GH for lengthy periods of time (6 months in some studies) your insulin begins to normalize somewhat compared to the inhibition you experience in the first 6 months..this may be another reason why people advocate longer GH cycles, because that's when your own natural insulin begins to come into play. All research asside, I have personally done GH several times under the 2 month mark with exceptional gains..gains that i never recieved from taking AAS alone, and i've done 12-15 cycles maybe more?. I've also done 3 cycles of LR3 with a low dose of test with decent results as well, but not as well as the results i recieved from doing GH, slin, and T3. I'm starting another GH cycle at the end of this week with LR3, T3, and AAS..I should mention i have a rotator cuff problem right now that has lasted for 3 weeks so we'll see how the GH goes to work on my injury. The last time i took GH i had a killer lower back problem that required me to wear a weight belt even when driving in my car (so you can imagine how hard it was to train) after 4 days of GH the pain had left and has never returned! whoa!
i MEANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT WAS 20UNITS ON A SLIN DART SO THAT'S ABOUT 6IUS AND I TAKE IT 2-3 TIMES A DAYQuote:
Originally Posted by Mallet
Ok I must say I don't agree with GH working instantly not by itself anyway if you want to see how powerful slin is run it with creatine and l-glutamine . GH doesn't directly cause your muscles to grow, it works very indirectly by increasing protein synthesis capabilities, increasing the amount of insulin a person can use effectively, and increasing the amount of anabolic steroids a person can use effectively. GH also indirectly causes muscle growth by stimulating the release of IGF when it (the GH) is destroyed in the human body. So one way you could look at it as GH being a precursor to IGF. You should know the major difference between GH and Steroids:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallet
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics. GH is good as hell but any pro will tel you that GH takes around 3 full cycles before you see definite effects and that is a quote from a pro bodybuilder I talked to a few weeks ago that placed in the top 5 at Mr. Olympia.
As for 20lbs in 10 days I won't discredit your word but what was in the 20lbs (fat,muscle,or WATER) this is a valuable question and next time you run that stack throw in some oils and see what will happen. :lift:Quote:
Originally Posted by hulk007
I've done slin a dozen times and i'm quite familiar with the gains...GH starts working right away! atleast the GH i buy does...if it took three months or more for GH to work i wouldn't waist my money..I can't see a person taking 4iu's a day for 89days being a waist and then all of a sudden unit number 90 and onward causes gains or the anabolic effect begins, this doesn't make any sense i'm affraid. GH stimulates the production of satelite cells, without these cells there would be no muscle growth going on at all...Gh has it's own benefits aside from the igf production, although igf-1 may be the predominant anabolic contributer.
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Originally Posted by AlwaysLiftHeavy
I agree completely maybe I was misunderstood. I wasn't saying it didn't start working immediately internally I was speaking of the anabolic effects and the visual effect will take time. I have been on GH for almost 8 weeks now I have noticed no physical difference other that my skin is a little thinner. Now my strength goes up every single week. I know that is attributed to Gh and protein synthesis and a few more things I don't have time to go into...good posts RedBaron that is what I was trying to say for the most partQuote:
Originally Posted by RedBaron
interesting, mallet iv'e been a gh for about 3 months,i've used slin before. My ? is I work at night I get up and take my gh 2iu at about 10am then i'm in the gym from about 11 to 1pm, is taking my slin at 1pm to late if i'm taking my gh at 10am?
That was the point i was trying to get across as well...however I do feel the results of prior injuries being healed in a very short period of time, as well as a better than usual strength gain, improvement of mood, better sleep patterns etc...which all happen immediately. I guess the question remains>> is it worth doing GH for under 3 months, or under 6 months as some would have it...and my answer would be yes, and I know before einy turned scammer he and i had this discusion on a few occasions and were both in agrrement, there will still be those who will tell you that they did GH for 2 or 3 months and saw no gains or were dissapointed with their results but there are to many factors to take into consideration to just say it was the GH's fault??? Sinse i can honestly say that I personally administer GH with exact timing, dosing, with the right androgenic environment, supplements (slin, t3) diet, training etc...then if i didn't see results i could say it was a waist to do GH for such short periods of time, but being as it is i have made significantly greater progress with GH in 4-8 week intervals with the prescribed regimne above, then i would with just AAS alone, or slin and t3. This isn't to say people shouldn't do long cycles of GH, but I don't think it's a must..and i'll once again prove it starting tommorrow :D Maybe I'm a freak of nature???
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Originally Posted by RedBaron