Big Fat Bastards and Insulin

**wilthepill123** · 03-20-2005, 12:47 PM

Most of us know L. Rea, author on sports chemistry, wrote Chemical Muscle Enhancement, yadda yadda yadda, not important if you dont know who he is. Anyways i was reading this article by him titled "Big Fat Bastards and Insulin "

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...nd-insulin.htm

Now i read through this article and am somewhat confused and need some things cleared up. I have always understood that your body needs AT LEAST 8+ carbohydrated/ I.U. of Insulin administered (some more, it all depends on the person or whatever, this isnt the point) but L. Rea is contradicting this, saying that the use of exogenous insulin in a low carb environment is perfectly okay. What!?

"Though fat intake could be quite high, total daily carbohydrate intake could not exceed 0.5 grams per 25 pounds of bodyweight daily. The reason is simple: The goal was to force the body to employ the gluconeogenic pathway as a means of energy production."

And at the bottom of a different article: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/031007.htm
You can find this statement!

"In summary it is the use of the fast acting whey protein that is preventing hypoglycemia during insulin administration…and the accumulative fat that normally comes with it for many."

This is turning my world upside down and I am very confused (yet hopeful!).
Is this true? Or is this cat full of hot air?

**spound** · 03-20-2005, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by wilthepill123

Most of us know L. Rea, author on sports chemistry, wrote Chemical Muscle Enhancement, yadda yadda yadda, not important if you dont know who he is. Anyways i was reading this article by him titled "Big Fat Bastards and Insulin "

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...nd-insulin.htm

Now i read through this article and am somewhat confused and need some things cleared up. I have always understood that your body needs AT LEAST 8+ carbohydrated/ I.U. of Insulin administered (some more, it all depends on the person or whatever, this isnt the point) but L. Rea is contradicting this, saying that the use of exogenous insulin in a low carb environment is perfectly okay. What!?

"Though fat intake could be quite high, total daily carbohydrate intake could not exceed 0.5 grams per 25 pounds of bodyweight daily. The reason is simple: The goal was to force the body to employ the gluconeogenic pathway as a means of energy production."

And at the bottom of a different article: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/031007.htm
You can find this statement!

"In summary it is the use of the fast acting whey protein that is preventing hypoglycemia during insulin administration…and the accumulative fat that normally comes with it for many."

This is turning my world upside down and I am very confused (yet hopeful!).
Is this true? Or is this cat full of hot air?

Maybe he just means that low carb intake is fine for the rest of the day AFTER the slin is out of your body, so that little fat is gained.

**wilthepill123** · 03-20-2005, 12:55 PM

Yes perhaps i'm interepreting this wrong, because Insulin without carbohydrates sounds just plain incorrect. Anyone else have any ideas? Im interested.

**wilthepill123** · 03-20-2005, 03:21 PM

Bump? Especially for Red Baron, Gear, or Johnny

**Gear** · 03-20-2005, 09:36 PM

I would just stick to the good old way of using Insulin . (Insulin + carbs + supps)

-Gear

**wilthepill123** · 03-20-2005, 11:20 PM

Thank you both Gear and RedBaron

**Gear** · 03-21-2005, 01:50 AM

My pleasure, good luck.

-Gear

**spound** · 03-21-2005, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by RedBaron

You weren't misunderstanding what he meant. He is saying that it is possible to utilize two different pathways to supply glucose. In the presence of carbs, your body is going to use this (glycosis pathway) as the pathway (since it is the course of least resistance) to get glucose to restore liver and muscle glycogen stores.

The article is pointing out that with a strict control of nutrient intake (3 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, .5 g of carbs per 25 pounds of bodyweight per day) that you can invoke the alternate pathway (Gluconeogenesis) to supply glucose. He points out the specific amino acids and ratios that are preferred and suggested to accomplish this. The body can produce glucose from amino acids if need be.

He is suggesting that by militantly controlling the diet and alternating between test suspension and 4 time a day insulin use, you can both gain 5-8 pounds of lean mass while losing bodyfat.

His explanation of the process is reasonable and should work, but I would caution anyone that would attempt something like this that there is NO room for error. This would have to be militantly followed to the letter (and preferrably under a doctors watch). Any error could and probably would be fatal.

L. Rea is one to think outside the box and this article is no exception. After reading it I would say his science is sound, but for the masses I would say this is a dangerous proposition.

For the traditional use of insulin, you are right .... in the presence of carbs, the body is going to use the glycosis pathway and is going to require the use of just the right amount of carbs post injection. I personally can get away with 6-7 grams per IU of slin, but there are some that need up to 9-10 grams per. I would say for the masses, our advice of a single post workout injection of slin followed by the right amount of carbs and aminos is an easier way of dealing with slin. While the method described in the article would likely work, it is too tedious and void of any room for error to be practical unless you are monitored by a physician, dietician, trainer, etc as many of the pros have at their disposal.

Hope this helps some. Let me know if there was anything more specific you were wondering about.

RedBaron

**** that was a great explanation, makes a lot of sense, thanks

***JohnnyB*** · 03-21-2005, 11:28 PM

I think his ideas are dangerous to say the lest, I have no respect for him either. He had a forum on a board I mod at, his pat answer was always you need to read my book. So he sold them to us for 20 bucks, after reading the book we all had questions about his methods. This board was invite only, so everyone there was a vet and had knowledge of the game.

When the question started coming about how his methods didn't make sense, everyone stated their case as to why they disagreed with him. He didn't answer one of those question, but all of a sudden didn't have time to post on the board. I of his disciples told a female top do 400mg of eq a week for 4 weeks then switch to deca for 4 more, I disagreed with him, his reply was his way was scientific, so I asked for some proof, I never got it.

JohnnyB