04-08-2005, 02:22 PM #1
A great insulin article.... A must if youre planning to use slin
This is one of the better insulin articles that I have came across.... But that being said I still have some beef with it... so I have added things in bold that I feel needs to be said
Insulin FAQ by Acneman ....
lots of questions that come up regularly and a pretty safe guide to use. this took a lot of research and time so be nice.
Acnemans Insulin FAQ
what is insulin?
Insulin is a hormone secreted by the beta cells of the pancreas that controls the metabolism and cellular uptake of sugars, proteins, and fats. As a drug, it is used principally to control diabetes. Insulin is not a steroid .
What type of insulin should I use for bodybuilding?
Humulin R and Humulog are the only insulins I recommend because they act fast and are out of the body fastest(this makes them the safest). I have never used Humalog but understand that aside from quicker onset and half-life it is essentially the same.
I have used Humalog and I feel that it is the only insulin that should be used. Humalin R active for too long IMO.
Why do I want to use insulin?
Insulin has been called "Anabolicus Maximus" by some gurus of the bodybuilding world. Insulin can give you greater gains than you have ever had using anabolics alone. Insulin, in combination with androgens and resistance exercise, may trigger maturation of satellite muscle cells (small, more or less useless cells that are held in reserve, which do not contribute to muscular strength) into mature muscle cells that do contribute to muscular size and strength. How freakin cool is that. Hyperinsulinemia has been shown to stimulate protein synthesis in isolated limb infusion experiments , these anabolic properties seem to be the result of insulin binding to IGF-1 receptors.
If insulin is so great why aren't all diabetics huge?
Diabetics have a disease and use insulin to replace endogenous insulin that they cannot produce. Bodybuilders use insulin in a totally different way. Some diabetic bodybuilders manipulate their insulin use to use insulin for muscle growth and get good results but changing dosages and times of injection of insulin for diabetics can be dangerous.
Isn't taking insulin dangerous?
ummm YES! Before deciding to take insulin here is what you have to do to be safe.
1. Do not use slin alone have a training partner or girlfriend who's not using slin hang around with you from the time you take the slin to about 2.5/4 hrs after.
Assuming that Humalog is used and shot IM (intramuscular) the time is just 2.5 hours.
2. Tell you're partner to look for anything out of the norm for your personality and have a list of questions like your ssn or address etc that they can ask you. Don't joke around, and answer them without ****, because if you cant answer or refuse to answer it could be a sign of hypoglycemia(low blood sugar). Symptoms of hypoglycemia include disorientation, headache, drowsiness, weakness, dizziness, fast heartbeat, sweating, tremor, and nausea.
Personal side note, do not take a shower while slin is active, it can be very hard to pick up the sides...
3. If you cant/wont answer or are feeling the symptoms of hypoglycemia they should be prepared to feed you carbs like pancake syrup, coke, sugary stuff. I bought glucose tablets at walmart. kinda like candy but gets in the blood faster and dissolve quickly. these are for diabetics ask at the pharmacy.
4. Have your partner know that if they suspect low blood sugar and cant convince or force you to consume carbs until your better. CALL 911 and ask for an ambulance and tell the truth to the operator... that they suspect you are in insulin shock and explain when they get there(the ambulance guys not the cops) that you are not diabetic but using insulin for anabolic purposes. Have the type of slin, the dosage and carbs consumed recorded to give the paramedic. They will save your life. Then you refuse transport to the hospital and eat. It might be a good idea to make sure your house is "clean" before every workout just in case the bad thing happens and the cops ask a lot of questions.
5. Why so much preparation for the possible problem?? insulin can kill you in minutes if you go down!!
6. Take the carbs and protein together immediately after injecting the slin(dont take chances trying to time out 15 min after injection). Take the protein with the carbs because the protein is pushed into the muscles with the slin also(creatine too).
This HAS TO BE whey protein, and the sugar should be dextrose. The whey should be taken in water... you want a fast absorbing protein at this point, so do not have a meal here.
7. Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal(high protein low fat with carbs).
Steak and brown rice is a very good meal here.
8. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. Congrats you lived.(keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure because your not gonna have a lifeline)
9. YAWN... Don't go to sleep within 4/6 hours of using insulin since you can develop hypoglycemia while asleep and not have warning signs.
Once again, assuming humalog shot IM was used 4 hours is all you have to worry about.
Ok I'm not scared I still want to use insulin...
Im not scared of slin.... but I respect it!
Where do i get it?
Humulin R is over the counter (OTC) just about everywhere. Humulog is new and is still a prescription drug is some places. BUT... Insulin is NOT a controlled substance and will not be confiscated by customs or postal inspectors so order it online if you cant get it locally. Its legal.
Humalog can be purchased... PM me for details of doing so.
Where do I keep it? (STORAGE)
The FDA requires that all preparations of insulin contain instructions to keep in a cold place and to avoid freezing. The refrigerator is a good spot. Unrefrigerated insulin can be kept of 28 days as long as it stays in a cool and dark place.
Where/how do I inject insulin?
The best sites for insulin injection are in the subcutaneous tissue of the abdomen(avoid the area close to bellybutton) .Usually, you should not inject within 1 inch of the same site within 1 month. The arms and legs can also be used, but insulin uptake from these sites is less uniform. Insulin should be injected subcutaneously only with a U-100 insulin syringe. "B-D ultra-fine" insulin syringes are good. Insulin syringes are available without a prescription in many states. If you cant purchase the syringes at a pharmacy, you can mail order them. Using a syringe other than a specific insulin syringe is dangerous since it will be difficult to measure out the correct dosage.
NO NO NO this needs to be an IM (intramuscular) shot. Subc is not good for what we use it for, IM cuts the duration of the insulin in half. Also a good place to inject is a place with low body fat. ie tricep, bicep and the tear drop on the quad.
How much insulin should I take?
I recommend never using over 10IU. 10IU is enough to make you grow.
In general Dosages used are usually 1 IU per 20 pounds of lean bodyweight. So a 220lb bodybuilder with 9% body-fat would use 10iu of insulin(aprox200lb lean mass/20 = 10iu). But even experienced insulin users shouldn't use max dosage at the beginning of an insulin cycle. First-time users should start at a low dosage and gradually work up. For example, first begin with 2 IU and then increase the dosage by 1 IU every consecutive workout until you reach your calculated dose or determine a maximum personal dose(some people are more sensitive to insulin sides like hypoglycemia). This will allow the athlete to determine a dosage he can safely use. Insulin dosages can vary significantly among athletes and are dependent upon insulin sensitivity and the use of other drugs. Athletes using growth hormone and thyroid might have higher insulin requirements.
When do I take insulin?
It is my opinion that you should only take insulin after a work out, never before or when not working out, because before a work out you could crash and die during the workout and when your not working out it makes you fat. Some people disagree with this. IF you want, get some info from them and try it. But remember I told ya so.
When do i eat after using insulin?
Immediately!!! DO NOT TRY TO TIME YOUR CONSUMPTION OF CARBS!! You should immediately take a carbohydrate AND protein drink after taking you're insulin. I've stated this twice because it is very important. Even experienced insulin users can get a surprise now and then.
Eat a meal at about an hour after using insulin. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycemia symptoms.
Once again no first meal it needs to be whey protein/dex in water...
What do I eat after using insulin?
Some people recommend a zero fat intake for 4 hours after taking insulin. I do not disagree with this. But if your bulking you can be a little relaxed on this. But high fat intake after taking insulin can lead to high body fat.
The carb/protein drink taken after the insulin shot should contain AT LEAST 10 grams of carbs and 5 grams of quality protein per IU of insulin injected with little or no fat(creatine taken in this drink is optional but works great). Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal(high protein low fat with carbs). At 2.5 hours after the injection you should Consume a small meal. keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycemia symptoms. Once again i've stated this twice because it is important.
I feel that the 5g per IU is a little low... as far as your shake 10-15 min after your injection, I have got better results whenever I consumed 80g of whey. Id rather have too much than not enough whenever the insulin is active.
***Some insulin users recommend far less carbs than I have stated above. This is a personal decision you will have to make since it could be very dangerous...Even deadly! My opinion is to take the carbs and learn to diet after bulking if you gain too much fat.***
How long should/can I take insulin?
Short cycles please because you could have side effects. It is suspected that you could become an insulin dependant diabetic but I have never seen proof, but is it worth the risk? I would only use it a few times a week(maximum 4 on 3 off) for no more than 3/4 weeks.
What should I avoid while using insulin?
Do not use alcohol. It lowers blood sugar, and you may experience dangerously low blood sugar levels
Do not change your workout in the middle of a cycle of insulin. Changes in how much you exercise can change the amount of insulin you can tolerate and maintain blood sugar levels.
Do not take any recreational drugs at the same time as insulin since they could mask symptoms of hypoglycemia.
Do not change the brand of insulin or syringe that you are using without first talking to a doctor or pharmacist. Some brands of insulin and syringes are interchangeable, while others are not.
Do not use insulin if you are sick with a cold, flu, or fever. These illnesses may change your insulin requirements..
Do not use any insulin that is discolored, looks thick, has particles in it, or looks different from the way it looked when you bought it.
Do not use OTC drugs that will cause drowsiness within 6 hours of using insulin.
Do not go to sleep within 4/6 hours of using insulin since you can develop hypoglycemia while asleep and not have warning signs.
What are the possible side effects of insulin besides hypoglycemia?
Rarely, people have allergic reactions to insulin. Seek emergency medical attention if you experience an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; or hives).
Hypothetically, one could become an insulin dependent diabetic if insulin is used too long
Your aspiring insulin guru....
04-08-2005, 02:32 PM #2
Thanks for updating that article, i had the same beefs that you did. Remember when you said this:
For me slin is a little too hardcore.... only time will tell
04-08-2005, 02:36 PM #3
Lol I do remember saying that..... when did I say that?
Thanks bro.... I dont post a lot about insulin , as Gear always beats me to it.... I would say the same stuff he does, but why repeat a response? Im trying to learn as much as I can.
Glad you agreed with what I added
*edit* will I found the post.... Its in Rambos slin + clen thread..... I remember that day I was so excited, Rambo pmed me the info before he posted it. I was like whoa slin is crazy! I want to learn and do it.... so thats what I did. Still my favorite compound to date.....
Last edited by Mr. Sparkle; 04-08-2005 at 02:40 PM.
04-08-2005, 03:34 PM #4Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
04-08-2005, 03:38 PM #5Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
If you have protein immidietly post training, insulin is not active (because it take 15 min for it to start working), therefore insulin is not force feeding muscle cells, instead your body is absorbing nutrients at its normal natural speed.
What sounds better? Take protein 15 min later, or immidietly? Taking protein immidietly is not taking advantage of what insulin is doing to you.
Last edited by Gear; 04-08-2005 at 03:50 PM.
04-08-2005, 03:55 PM #6
In the bit where it says insulin should be taken PWO only, perhaps there should be an explenation on taking Humalin-R and its onset time, therefore if taken Sub-Q, humalin R must be taken 15 min prior finishing training. And Humalog immidietly post training.
Apart from that, looks good bro. Bump this up for the rest of us to see.
04-08-2005, 06:48 PM #7
We definitely need a couple more Insulin Igf-1 and GH stickies in this subsection of the forum. Bump again lets keep this one on the top for awhile. Gear's totally right about the Humulin-R, and its a fact ive always overlooked because ive never utilized it. 15 minutes prior to finishing training is the optimal time to utilize Humulin do to the 30 minute onset period. I also agree with waiting until the insulin is active before you ingest protein.
04-08-2005, 10:27 PM #8
good post spark, makes me want to incorporate 4 week slin cycles for the rest of my life
04-09-2005, 11:42 AM #9Originally Posted by Gear
How then would the insulin not force the protein in no matter the time its injested? So your saying... your body absorbs the normal speed for the first 15 min, then the slin does nothing? But if you wait 15 min it will shuttle better? I figure might as well get it in asap.... it still has to be broken down to be utilized... so that does take time, not a lot but some... I just dont see really how there is so much of a difference.....?
04-09-2005, 11:43 AM #10Originally Posted by Tose22
04-09-2005, 03:20 PM #11
I see what you are saying Mr.Sparkle, taking protein immidietly post training or 15 min post training would be about the same because 15 min difference isn't really a big difference. So really, it is not a big deal.
But, the reason why I recomend to take protein 15 min later is simply because if you take it 15 min later, you can be sure that everything you took will be shuttled into cells easier and faster because insulin is now active. This means that all the protein you took has a very good chance of being digested better and faster because insulin will be forcing it into cells.
So IMO, I am sure there isn't much difference like you said, but I am also sure that there sometimes could be a small unnoticable difference because who is to say that it takes excatly 15 minutes for nutrients to be broken down etc before absorption? Could be longer, could be sooner, it is hard to say. Because of that, I choose to intake protein 15 min later just to be sure because I would much rather my nutrients being pushed into cells by insulin then without insulin.
So taking protein 15 min later makes me be 100% sure that all the protein i just had will have insulin behind it pushing it. So as I said in my post, either way works fine, and even though it takes time for nutrients to be broken down etc, because I have no idea how long the "breaking down" process takes, I choose to start taking nutrients while insulin is active just to be sure. Just my opinion.
Hope all that made sense.
04-09-2005, 09:47 PM #12
04-10-2005, 11:25 AM #13Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
04-15-2005, 06:07 PM #14
up up and away!
09-20-2005, 07:06 AM #15
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- Aug 2002
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another one that needs to be bumped.
09-20-2005, 08:30 AM #16
I'm with Gear. I hit the carbs in my truck PWO, then hit the slin and about 10-15 min. later I hit the protein. Can't go wrong there..
09-20-2005, 01:19 PM #17
Still partial to the one I wrote
11-17-2005, 08:53 PM #18
This is my first post, been lurking for a few days. I have to say that yall are very dedicated and knowledgable. I am a Type I diabetic using humalog and Lantus (long lasting). Never had the insight of insulin as I have reading all these articles. Looking forward to educating myself a little more and maybe join the gear alite. See ya around.
11-17-2005, 09:09 PM #19
11-17-2005, 09:34 PM #20
damn... after reading this i m on the fence about trying slin... i want to try it... but it's obvious this is serious shit, and if u fuk it up u cld wind up dead...
11-17-2005, 09:55 PM #21Originally Posted by topvega
11-19-2005, 05:32 PM #22Banned
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- Aug 2005
Great thread MS,has anyone had symptoms of hypoglycemia or had to get out of trouble ?
Last edited by goose; 11-19-2005 at 05:36 PM.
11-19-2005, 06:57 PM #23Banned
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11-19-2005, 08:11 PM #24
this should be a sticky
11-19-2005, 08:49 PM #25
i have used much much slin and it is by far my 2nd fav.. right behind GH
11-19-2005, 08:55 PM #26Originally Posted by goose4
11-19-2005, 09:29 PM #27
i want to do it but that it's something im scare off + im tranning alone...im douing my homework... read+ read+ read
11-21-2005, 01:14 AM #28Originally Posted by Bizz
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