What do you guys think of IGF-1 LR3 for a whole year. Like 4weeks on 4 weeks off for a year. So 6 months of use i guess. Im looking for mass gain and i need to lay off the AS for a while after this cycle is over.
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What do you guys think of IGF-1 LR3 for a whole year. Like 4weeks on 4 weeks off for a year. So 6 months of use i guess. Im looking for mass gain and i need to lay off the AS for a while after this cycle is over.
I don't see any problems with that. I would add in some supplements to help boost your GH levels naturally like 2500mg of Arginine>>2500mgs Glutamine>> and 500mgs calcium 1 hour before bed on an empty stomach, this will help with your natural GH levels, which will help provide you with those much needed satelite cells.
I plan on doing the same thing,im only on week 3 and i love the results.
i think that pattern is going to be the wave of the future. igf1lr3 has more bang for your buck than GH, so you should probably budget for 6 months a year of igf before spending money on gh.Quote:
Originally Posted by juicehoe
i've heard of that gh satellite cell theory before, but could you explain it further mallet?
i have been thinking of running 20 mgs year round with small increments of time off. I just worry about the long term of "doing too much of a good thing" and building up tolerances for it.
there has been talk that stacking a "replacement dose" of GH will extend the usable cycle length of IGF, something about the additional growth factors in GH are vital to recruitment of satellite cells for the the igf to work with. hopefully one of our GH experts could help explain this too us.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingof516
also, i hate to rain on your parade, but apparently gh tolerance is a much bigger and longer term problem than we originally thought.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/87/8/3573#R7
my only concern to this is i have read igf is a contributor to cancer growth.
Sounds like a good idea what dose are planning on using. You probley would have to raise it every 2 cycles to keep gaining.
What kind of replacement dose are we talking about. Like what dose for how long?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMA
igf1lr3 is (probably) suppressive to GH, and igf1lr3 doesn't have every growth factor/effect in the body that GH does. which means that you would want to run a small dose concurrently with every igf1lr3 cycle. note that this is just a theory, these are new substances, and we don't have a "proven and tested" most effficent way to use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by juicehoe
the big problem that was noted in that study i referenced is that GH (even used EOD) has a weaker effect the second year, and VERY little effect after that due to GH resistance. and if it takes 6-9 months to run an effective GH cycle where does that leave us?
1 year on 1 year off? With an EOD dosing schedule, shooting IGF EOD, like you had suggested in another thread. Logically, if GH's major effects are mediated (or indeed caused) by IGF, and GH is released in a pulsile nature....making EOD more effective long term (with regards to recovery)....then IGF ought to have the same dosing schedule.
but lr3 lasts much longer in the body than GH, EOD might not be a long enough break.Quote:
Originally Posted by hooker
also, just because you begin to get gh resistance after a year doesn't mean we're obligated to run it to the limit every cycle. and year on/year off is basicly just time on=time off. why not just run it EOD concrrently with your AS cycles (and PCT) for maximum synergy?
I gave a very limited answer, to a very limited question...I didn't go into use of Testosterone to increase prolifiration of IGF receptors, use of insulin, blah blah blah....althought I didn't get in to it, I do reccomend running it with AAS....and really not ever w/o it...my full reccomendations are contained within my GH, Insulin, and IGF profiles...
I assumed when he said "year round" he was only considering a year long use of it, in which case, I would suppose he should use it in a dosing pattern similar to what I reccomend for GH.
thanks hooker, i hadn't realized how much the game had changed since i last read the profiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by hooker
I don't follow...
Though...I do reccomend, in my IGF profile (you're reading it right now) that people use igf with Test, GH, and T3....I also reccomend 60-120mcgs ED. The idea above is speculation, with regards to the EOD dosing of IGF....the people I've spoken to have found 60-120mcgs/day to be optimal, and nobody I know has tried EOD shots with similar weekly dosing, so as I said....I'm speculating in the post above (hence the "?" when I say "1 year on 1 off").
hooker what is your opinion regarding CANCER CELL GROWTH with high igf levels?
I don't really have an opinion on that...I know that Dennis Neuman was using high doses of GH and got hit hard by leukemia about a decade ago...
I haven't really thought about IGF and Cancer though...
Most of the research shows that IGF and GH will increase morbidity rates when administered to patients with cancer, but they certainly won't cause it.
Is that what you meant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMA
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooker
i was talking about the old steroid profiles, before you rewrote them. a lot has changed since then.
not meaning to jack the thread, but i think all this is relevant to the original question.
alright, we know that GH resistance does kick in after the first year - the same dose had weaker and weaker results in succeeding years, even when used EOD.
EOD had the big advantage of losing this resistance almost immediately after you come off. 2 years ED injections resulted in resistance for a year and a half.
but what about shorter cycles of GH? anecdotal evidence makes it extremely unlikely that GH resistance kicks in the first 6-9 months (these are supposed to be where you see the best results).
well i dunno about that
i have heard high levels of igf1 may lead to prostate cancer
igf1 is good no doubt, but everything has its limits