HGH question - To do or not to do?

[Phyll]

Bros - I am back!

Got a question for you HGH people here.

After spending a couple of days reading as much as I could about HGH, I got to the conclusion that the sides I was scared of (acromegaly, for instance) are not caused by the hormone, but are in fact a result from a preexisting condition...

I have done two AAS cycles before (basically test/EQ/Var) and even though I got great results from these cycles (specially the 1st one; I was way too conservative during the 2nd), I think I found out I am prone to MPB and that is a big drawback for me in using AAS. I plan on keeping my hair. And of course, another BIG reason in favor of HGH here.

With all that in mind, I am looking for a very mild cycle... Maybe 6 months, 2 iu a day, 5 on/2off, and see what happens, see how I react to it.

I have been cutting for 10 months now, and my average BF % is 6%. I am also looking for something that would allow me to keep my BF% while introducing lean mass... Again, HGH seems to be the perfect candidate...

I am 29 years old, definitely a hard gainer (if there is such thing.)

SO what you guys think?

Would really love to hear some opinions... It is almost like HGH is this "next level" hormone, like you're moving into some kind of dangerous zone but after reading about it, if taken responsibly and sensibly, it is very mild.

Thanks!

I almost forgot... I plan on adding some AAS (Test probably) towards the end of the cycle... Also, is insulin a necessity? I would have no problem getting my hands on some since my gf is diabetic! But I want to keep things as simple as possible, I've read threads of HGH only cycles that worked out great, so...

[Puffader]

Sounds good to me. I would run a few cycles of test within that 6 month GH run.
Forget Insulin . Go with IGF-1 first. Do all three. 2IU's of GH, 40mcg IGf-1, and Test. Can't go wrong there! Get Big, Lean and some new muscles cells. Life is good!

[Phyll]

LOL

Should I wait a little before adding the tesT?

Also does exogenous GH stop your natural GH production? If so, is there any PCT needed?

[rodge]

Also does exogenous GH stop your natural GH production? If so, is there any PCT needed?

yes it does but it retuns when stopping exogeneus hgh,just stick with 5on/2off.


-rodge

[Phyll]

I see. is there any pct required to bring the normal production back up to speed?

[Puffader]

Of course for the Test, unless you never come off, like me!

I see. is there any pct required to bring the normal production back up to speed?

[alo5603]

as long as you stay at 5on/2off, the 2 days will help refresh your natural GH and you wont have to worry about it shutting down, IMO no need for any pct for GH at that rate, but you will need one for test of course

[Phyll]

I was referring to the gh, I know the deal w/ PCT from test already...

Also how are the gains from GH? Are they really "permanent" as some people claim (the new muscle cells it generates, for instance) or should I expect the same post-cycle "shrinking" from AAS?

[MMA]

as long as you stay at 5on/2off, the 2 days will help refresh your natural GH and you wont have to worry about it shutting down, IMO no need for any pct for GH at that rate, but you will need one for test of course

your advice was the conventional wisdom, but there has been some new research coming in that is really changing the game for GH.

GH is very different from AS. suppression is apparently just not a problem - production returns to normal within 48 hours, even after a 2 year study.

however, increasing GH tolerance is a much bigger problem than we thought. after 2 years of ED injection, levels of gh and igf1 quickly returned to normal. unfortunately, the subjects bodies had become almost completely resistant to the GH in their bodies, and did not fully recover for a YEAR AND A HALF.

they were able to eliminate this problem by going to EOD injections, and the subjects became responsive to GH again quickly after treatment was discontinued.

however, both programs showed great results year 1, weaker results year 2, and very weak results after that. so even EOD dosing still builds up GH resistance while you're on it.

if EOD still has resistance problems, 5/2 is probably worse

hooker has the graphs in the educational threads.

[rodge]

sounds like bad news,i always thought that hgh use was relativly safe and simple cause of no need for pct etc.

like to know more about this.

-rodge

[Phyll]

me too, I didn't know that; isn't the resistance dose-related though? For instance, if somebody is taking 4iu ED for 2 years while his normal production is around 1 iu daily, there could be some issues when the cycle is over... Could this be the source of the resitance MMA is referring to?

[Phyll]

It looks like if one was to do a 6 month GH cycle he/she would be better off taking it EOD... right?

[MMA]

me too, I didn't know that; isn't the resistance dose-related though? For instance, if somebody is taking 4iu ED for 2 years while his normal production is around 1 iu daily, there could be some issues when the cycle is over... Could this be the source of the resitance MMA is referring to?

according to the researchers, resistance was not dose dependent, but i didn't see anything to back this up in the study itself. hooker has the link in the profiles

[MMA]

It looks like if one was to do a 6 month GH cycle he/she would be better off taking it EOD... right?

that we don't know, maybe 5/2 is OK for shorter cycles (the study was for people on for 2 years).

[MMA]

sounds like bad news,i always thought that hgh use was relativly safe and simple cause of no need for pct etc.

like to know more about this.

-rodge

no need for pct, there was no suppression per se. hgh/igf1 levels returned to normal almost immediately. but normal levels no longer had any effect on your body because of resistance, you effectivley become GH deficient.

EOD was slightly less powerful, but you recovered from the resistance almost immediately. after 2 years of ED, it took the a YEAR AND A HALF to regain normal sensitivity to GH/igf.

the scariest part of the study is that both injection patterns accumulated resistance of the course of years. there were noticeably fewer results year 2, and the researchers said they didn't bother doing gh therapy after 2 years because the effects were so weak.

this could easily sneak up on a lot of athletes who just think they're getting old.

we all thought "longer was better" with gh. i was about to go on a gh cycle for the rest of my life. now i really have to rethink this. year on, year off?

and non pulsing treatments like igf1lr3 are supposed to be worse for resistance than ED gh. that 5 week limit for lr3 could just be the gh resistance kicking in, only it takes 5 weeks instead of 2 years.

[MMA]

6 months to a year EOD should have no resistance issues.

[rodge]

and non pulsing treatments like igf1lr3 are supposed to be worse for resistance than ED gh. that 5 week limit for lr3 could just be the gh resistance kicking in, only it takes 5 weeks instead of 2 years.

so whats you're opinion on 4 weeks on/4 weeks off with lr3 at say 50 mcg 5on/2off?

would that have similar effects or could this be more beneficial in the long run?

and what if combined with 2iu of hgh 5on/2off?

sorry for al the questions but its starting to get bit confusing for me.


-rodge

[Osiris]

Hello guys,

seem like I know the solution.

I m from Ukraine (ex-Ussr territory). In our country we have unique drug - Erbisol.

This drug is an general and specific receptor enhancer. It is very well known here in ex-Ussr countries to enahnce while stacking with test, throids and slin.

Also it promotes immune specific cells and etc.

ANY!!!!!! drug taken along with erbisol cycle produces obviously greater influence due tu receptors (any) sensetivity increase.

IF u r interested, I can post here studies and general data regarding this drug.

Im gonna try it soon with HG (my 5 cycle).

Brgds
Dmitry

[Phyll]

This whole resistance biz is freakin scary... Anybody here has done a 6 month cycle EOD? Also, how would you know if you built resistance when the cycle is over? I mean, are there any physical/physiological signs?

[rodge]

IF u r interested, I can post here studies and general data regarding this drug.

Im gonna try it soon with HG (my 5 cycle).

Brgds
Dmitry

seems interesting,more info please.


-rodge

[Osiris]

E R B I S O L

Code АТС L03A X Immunomodulator
Code АТС А05В А hepatoprotector,
reparant and adaptogene


ERBISOL - Highly effective medication of new generation with original mechanism of action.

It contains the low-molecular “signal” fragments of specialized molecules (markers of cell physiological condition), which in case of pathological changes, activate the evolutionally formed organism controlling systems, responsible for the search and elimination of pathologic changes in organs and tissues. One of the main such controlling systems is the immune system of the organism.



Accelerates the recovery of the damaged cells and destruction of anomalous cells and tissues

ERBISOL influences only on the unbalanced systems, the affected organs and tissues and remains practically indifferent for organism, without side effects, i. e. innocuous, does not induce medicine poisoning in overdose or long-term application.

Enhances protective and adaptation functions of the organism. It will help you to realize your physiological potential for the valuable mode of life.

Exclusive rights on medical preparations of “Erbisol” class are patented in 20 countries of the world on the basis of international application PCT/UA93/00003, including European patent №0673653, and also patents of USA № 08/397288, Russia № 2041715, Ukraine № 2164, Byelorussia № 2039, Poland № 173321, Bulgaria № 61679…

“Biologically active substance with immunomodulating properties, method of its production, preparation on its basis and method for the normalization of physiological state in human and animal organisms using the preparation”

Term of patent validity is 20 years, from 21.07.1992.

In 1994 ERBISOL was registered and included in the list of ukrainian medications indispensable to life by Ministry of Publlic Health of Ukraine.

In 1996 the medication ERBISOL was included in the 10 best domestic inventions of a year by Ministry of Sciences of Ukraine. . >>>

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Bros,

pls post your e-mails, all data in PDF, Ill send by.

[MMA]

so whats you're opinion on 4 weeks on/4 weeks off with lr3 at say 50 mcg 5on/2off?

would that have similar effects or could this be more beneficial in the long run?

and what if combined with 2iu of hgh 5on/2off?

sorry for al the questions but its starting to get bit confusing for me.


-rodge

confusing to me too. this study just hit the boards recently, an we're all trying to fighure out what the new optimium gh cycle is. but a lot of top people like hooker are going EOD now.

no resistance indicated the first year, and EOD allowed you to recover from the resistance very quickly. the results from ED were downright scary. maybe 5/2 would give us most of the benefits of EOD. maybe not. i would lean towards EOD, because i'm planning on going long term, and even EOD has some long term resistance issues, i doubt 5/2 would be better.

6 months to a year of EOD would still have great results with very little resistance.

hooker was theorizing about going EOD wth the igf1lr3, because it worked so well with GH. 2 gh injections during the igf1lr3 period of effect, then a day off for both still theory tho.

[Osiris]

confusing to me too. this study just hit the boards recently, an we're all trying to fighure out what the new optimium gh cycle is. but a lot of top people like hooker are going EOD now.

no resistance indicated the first year, and EOD allowed you to recover from the resistance very quickly. the results from ED were downright scary. maybe 5/2 would give us most of the benefits of EOD. maybe not. i would lean towards EOD, because i'm planning on going long term, and even EOD has some long term resistance issues, i doubt 5/2 would be better.

6 months to a year of EOD would still have great results with very little resistance.

hooker was theorizing about going EOD wth the igf1lr3, because it worked so well with GH. 2 gh injections during the igf1lr3 period of effect, then a day off for both still theory tho.

One needs to play with receptors. See Erbisol above. this stuff is proven to be working with immunemodulators, test, thyroids in our country. You should try it.

[MMA]

One needs to play with receptors. See Erbisol above. this stuff is proven to be working with immunemodulators, test, thyroids in our country. You should try it.

thanks, good info, i'll look into it.