Intraarticular (joint) GH?!?!

Has anyone had or know someone who has had a or a series of intraarticular GH injections? They are performed by a physician directly into a joint/cartliage damaged by arthritis or any other problem to promote healing, etc....I know there are only a few MD's in the States that are doing it. It's considered an "off-label" use and does not have FDA approval although they have approved it for use in clinical study. It's being touted by these doctors as an alternative to joint replacement, although all results so far have been anecdotal. IT's very interesting to me....the cartilage has a very poor blood supply which is why it doesn't heal on it's own...hard to figure out how the hormone gets into the tissue to so enough with little blood flow-ahs anyone heard of this, had it, or know someone who has? I'd love to hear...

IAGH has some promise in osteoarthritic joints. As you said, its use is not FDA approved. In animal models the thought is that IAGH stimulates the microvascular system of the cartilage to produce more cartialge cells. I have tried it in combination with high molecular weight hyaluronic acid injections with some decent success for arthritic knees, compared to hyaluronic acid injections alone. Much more studies are needed on this issue. I personally think that intra-articular IGf-1 injections can be more beneficial than GH injections; but, thus far IGF-1 has not been approved for human use, so experimentation on patients cannot be justified.

So you can inject GH or IGF-1 directly into a sore knee or joint??? This is interesting, as my knees have been going downhill the last 5 years or so. Although this sounds like a pretty tough way to inject compared to the normal sub-q injections of GH. Any more info on this or anyone who has tried it??

AS far as I know, an intraarticular injection you DO NOT try at home. This is performed by a doctor who knows exactly where to inject. (just to clarify in case I wasn't clear)

I agree that the IGF seems like it would make more sense...now if only the FDA would agree...I've also had good results with hyaluronic acid injections (Synvisc) I"ve had the series of 3 in both knees with a lot of symptomatic relief. Of course the structural problem is still there...which is why if the GH actually works in the joint it is so intriguing-any others out there?

Teegun- I second waht GirlyGirl said. I strongly recommend against self- injection into joints. Getting into a joint is not always easy, especially if its arthritic. Also introducing an infection into a joint can destroy that joint within 1-2 days, if left untreated.

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Originally Posted by GirlyGirl

AS far as I know, an intraarticular injection you DO NOT try at home. This is performed by a doctor who knows exactly where to inject. (just to clarify in case I wasn't clear)

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GG - To Answer some of your questions, yes I do know someone who has done intraarticular rHGH injections. Me.

I have been injecting 2ius daily, intraarticularly in my knees, for the past 10 months or so. And yes, I inject myself. It's not for the weak of heart though, I can tell you. But as with any injection you MUST follow strict sanitation and maintain as steril an environment as possible.

Now, as for the blood supply in the cartelege, the rHGH actually works through a side effect by stimulating the development of new blood vessels.. Here is a clip from IAGH -
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... IAGH process rejuvenates adult blood vessels in your joint to form fetal vessels. These fetal vessels produce your own (Autologous) stem cells which then form cartilage cells (Chondrocytes). These new cartilage cells produce a new cartilage surface in your joint. This process has been published in a peer reviewed scientific journal.
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The evidence for me is quite compelling. Both XRays and MRIs have shown significant increase in joint space for both of my knees. As a competitive soccer player trying to keep playing, that's important.

Now, one side effect I have also found is that for some reason when injecting intra-articularly my IGF-1 levels are at least 100 points higher on the same does as opposed to subQ injections.

Now - none of this shoudl be construed by anyone as me recommending this. Please work with your doctor on this.

Scotty

Scotty-
I am so glad to hear you're getting benefit-and hats off to doing your own injections!
Out of curiosity-what type of lesions do you have in your knees? Is it diffuse OA, or in a specific area? For me, my problem is patella-femoral only, but full global lesions bilaterally. My tibial-femoral joint space is OK.
The blood vessel formation makes sense from a theoretical point of view-I didn't know if there was actual studies on humans to back up the theory.
Girly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scotty082865

GG - To Answer some of your questions, yes I do know someone who has done intraarticular rHGH injections. Me.

I have been injecting 2ius daily, intraarticularly in my knees, for the past 10 months or so. And yes, I inject myself. It's not for the weak of heart though, I can tell you. But as with any injection you MUST follow strict sanitation and maintain as steril an environment as possible.

Now, as for the blood supply in the cartelege, the rHGH actually works through a side effect by stimulating the development of new blood vessels.. Here is a clip from IAGH -
-----
... IAGH process rejuvenates adult blood vessels in your joint to form fetal vessels. These fetal vessels produce your own (Autologous) stem cells which then form cartilage cells (Chondrocytes). These new cartilage cells produce a new cartilage surface in your joint. This process has been published in a peer reviewed scientific journal.
-----

The evidence for me is quite compelling. Both XRays and MRIs have shown significant increase in joint space for both of my knees. As a competitive soccer player trying to keep playing, that's important.

Now, one side effect I have also found is that for some reason when injecting intra-articularly my IGF-1 levels are at least 100 points higher on the same does as opposed to subQ injections.

Now - none of this shoudl be construed by anyone as me recommending this. Please work with your doctor on this.

Scotty

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Very interesting - thanks for sharing. What size and length of needle are you using and approximately where in the joint are you shooting? I am assuming you had a doc show you how to do this, or at least someone who has done it before. Am I also understanding you correctly that you are getting higher levels of IGF out of 2.0iu of GH by shooting into the joint rather than sub-q?? Lot's of questions, but this is really intriguing to me. Thanks.

bump for the weekend

Ttt.....

Hey Girlygirl, u mention that your problem is patella-femoral. My problem is cartilage use on the inner part of the knee cap, is this similar to u ?

Scotty, I use to get lubricant called "Synvics" injected in my knee. The doctor told me that the injection site is in some kind of fluid-bag that's in the joint. Please let me know if it is the same area as when u inject your hgh.

Yah, patella-femoral is the underside of the knee cap, where it slides across the part of the femur called the troclea. Did the Synvisc help you-it did wonders for me.

Yeah , it helped quite a lot, although the treatments don't seem to be as effective as they use to. I get the "three shot-treatment" ever 8 to 10 months.

Btw, if you feel any pain while getting the shot , it means that it is being injected in the wrong area. When done correctly, u should feel no pain except when the needle is being inserted. I once had a doc who did it wrong and it was so painful that he gave me the garbage can cause I almost thru up.
Also , I surgically got my knee cap slighltly move to the right so it won't rubb on the femor, that also helped alot.

Scotty, you mention to me that u add 2 ml of bw with the 2 ius, and u do this ever day ?

Don't u develop some kind of side effects from injecting so much ever day in your joints ?

Do u think that some of the results are due to having so much fluid in the joint which creates some kind of padding . Did u ever stop your treatment for sometime to see if the benefits are still present?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scotty082865

GG - To Answer some of your questions, yes I do know someone who has done intraarticular rHGH injections. Me.

I have been injecting 2ius daily, intraarticularly in my knees, for the past 10 months or so. And yes, I inject myself. It's not for the weak of heart though, I can tell you. But as with any injection you MUST follow strict sanitation and maintain as steril an environment as possible.

Now, as for the blood supply in the cartelege, the rHGH actually works through a side effect by stimulating the development of new blood vessels.. Here is a clip from IAGH -
-----
... IAGH process rejuvenates adult blood vessels in your joint to form fetal vessels. These fetal vessels produce your own (Autologous) stem cells which then form cartilage cells (Chondrocytes). These new cartilage cells produce a new cartilage surface in your joint. This process has been published in a peer reviewed scientific journal.
-----

The evidence for me is quite compelling. Both XRays and MRIs have shown significant increase in joint space for both of my knees. As a competitive soccer player trying to keep playing, that's important.

Now, one side effect I have also found is that for some reason when injecting intra-articularly my IGF-1 levels are at least 100 points higher on the same does as opposed to subQ injections.

Now - none of this shoudl be construed by anyone as me recommending this. Please work with your doctor on this.

Scotty

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I know this is a very old thread, but I remember that it died out without anymore info from Scotty on just how he is doing with the IAGH in his knees. I am interested if he thinks it is worthwhile and just how he does it.

yes, bump

Gh would only helpt in the wasy , that, if it´s admistrered systemically, ther will be more tendon and stronger tendons -nearly all the weight gain of lbm on gh is tendons, and connective tissue.

So this might stabilise the joints and relieve the cartilage damage, but some research shew, that gh intraarticular promotes even more inflammation, while IGF and the Long R3 version led to a considerable decrease in inflammatory cytocines and cartilage repair.

IMHO gh admistered the normal way, wil help a lot with joints and cartilage and regaining flexibility, even better than IGF, but if I was to inject something into my joint, then it would be IGF-1LR3.