newbie test-c / hgh cycle

[lavaman]

Hi Everyone,

I've been receving conflicting advice from my doctors/edorcinologist about taking hgh with cypionate .
After, 5 years of being misdiagnosed, I finnaly was diagnosed with having a non canerous pituatary tumor which shut down my testosorone production, and kept my levels at 40 and raised my prolactin to 1000. over the course, of those years I jumped from 230 to 430, and now I'm on Horomone replacement therapy.
I'm a 30 year old male, and most of my weight is on my gut.

For the past 4 months, I've been taking low doses of testosorone cypionate at 150 mg, and I do cardio 1 hour 7 days a week and lift weights 5 days a week. I've went from 56 percent body fat to 41 percent and lost 55 pounds.
I'm not really happy with my results because my body and mind has gone through the ringer...

So I have been now seeing a new doctor that prescribed me HGH, 3-4 iu a day 5days on 2 days off, and 500 mg of cypionate a week.
I've been doing this for the past 3 weeks, and my fat is literally falling off, and my muscles have been growing bigger as weel..

Finnaly my question, Is this combo of cyiponate and hgh safe for someone my size? and second, I'm also taking an herbal anti-e, and fat burner with ephedera and I feel fine but everyone keeps trying to talk me out of doing what I'm doing because my peers think it's dangerous to mix things.

I feel great, and it doesnt bother me at all. In fact, it gives me the energy I need to work out 7 days a week, and I run circles around people in the gym that are way better shape then me.

Is 500 mg of cypionate going to over power the HGH at 3-4 iu a day?
I do notice my weight loss has fallin from 4 pounds a week to 1-2.
Which is ok, since I'm noticing i'm getting leaner.
My current endocrinologist would not give me the hgh, because my Igf-1 levels were 200. normal range for my age is 100-450.
Let me konw what you all think?

P.s.
before anyone reply's with the typical response of diet and excercise.. will do the trick......
just let me say, I'm on a strict diet low carbs high protien low fat, I do weight watchers because it's easy to follow... I excercise 2-3 hours every day. 1 hour on treadmill for cardio, and 1-2 hours of weights everyday.
my starting bench press 3 months ago was 120 max, and now i'm up to 225.

thanks for the help...

[dale]

try mixing up your cardio...treadmill a few weeks then try eliptical then maybe some stationary biking. mix up your weightlifting routine also.

get bloodwork done every couple of weeks, buy some real anti-e's, and check your blood pressure ALL THE TIME.

[lavaman]

Thanks Dale,

My blood pressure has been around 120/70 to 140/80, which is normal.
thanks for the advice, the eleptical is hard for me to do for 60 min straight, because of the weight I carry. So I do the treadmill at 3 miles an hour, at a 6-8 incline for an average heart beat a min of 125-130. For my weight an hour is rouhly 1000 calories burned.

I'm currently using purchasing my meds out of pocket, because my dr.'s don't know much about HGH.. I've been using oasis and have had a good experience so far. not as cheap as jino but at least I know it's reliable.

Is the 500mg of test-cype fine with the HGH at 3iu a day.?

[lavaman]

Has anyone had experience with getting red welts at the injection site sub q with hgh? I just started getting them a couple of days after injecting.

[rodge]

5oo mg test is fine esp with 3iu of hgh.

but i think youre overtraining a bit(alot actually)
you dont need to workout 7 days a week.

give youre body some rest


-rodge

[lavaman]

Thanks rodge,

I only lift weights 5-6 days a week and do cardio everyday.

Someguy at the gym told me that 500 of cyp and hgh will overpower the hgh.. I dont know where people are getting their info from.

Is it common to get skin rashs' at the injection site?

[fatsbastard]

test wil never overpower hgh because they are two different compounds same as sayng that to mu bread wil over power vit c lol
I do 2000mg cycpe a week with 4iu hgh and do great so dont worry bro your fine just be sure to monitor your blood pressure and dont lose to much weight to fast or u wil get sick becasue in bateria settles in fat deposites and when losing to much to fast they wel be let loos in our system sort of speak..

later

[BUYLONGTERM]

Has anyone had experience with getting red welts at the injection site sub q with hgh? I just started getting them a couple of days after injecting.

Yes, I've heard some GH can and will give you red welts especially from China. I'm also surprised you were able to find a Dr. to prescribe that much GH. Usually a dr. will start a patient out with 1iu maybe 2..

[BUYLONGTERM]

Thanks rodge,

I only lift weights 5-6 days a week and do cardio everyday.

Someguy at the gym told me that 500 of cyp and hgh will overpower the hgh.. I dont know where people are getting their info from.

Is it common to get skin rashs' at the injection site?

You will come to learn that most guys at the gym, have no idea what they are talking about..

[lavaman]

fatbastard:

Thanks for the reply, I never heard about bacteria deposits in fat... Something to keep in mind.. hmm.. intresting.

The after I lost 55 pounds in 3 months I hit a plateau and my fourth month has been slow only 1.5 pounds a week lost. which is still good but not as good as 5 from the previous months. I think the test-c, started to bloat me at 500mg... Maybe it was the gh too. I dont know..
I feel like i'm full and my sides are sore I think it's from the GH.. I dont know..I'm on my 3rd week with the gh and test at 500, and I my stomach or intestines feel sore like I'm full or something, sort of wierd. Nothing to get me to stop taking it though.

How's your results with the 200mg test and 4iu hgh...
are you doing 5on2off?

[lavaman]

hi Buylongterm:

That's one fine ass picture by your name!

Yeah the red welts, I think i'm getting because of the gh from clubXXX.com,
they use some chinese brand that is tested at 191 and is good I hear. But I heard the welts might be from using too much bacteristic water, I'm mixing 3.5ml with 12iu. I'll try to cut the water next vial.

it's pretty easy to get a dr. to prescribe you 4iu especially at an anti-aging clinic.. the catch is you have to buy it from them! at about $8 an iu but at least my name is on the bottle and I won't have to worry about authenticity, or breaking the law for now.. I just started and it's hard to find a legitimate non-jino source.... I'm going to make a trip to tijuana in a few weeks to see what' available.. I'm only 2 hours away so it might be worth the trip.. who knows.

BTW, do you have a before and after pic from when you first started to now?
I know this is really early.. but I swear my stomach seems smaller..is it too early to tell?

Take Care and thanks again!

[lavaman]

yeah the guys at the gym are retarded!

Someone told me the other day that if you take humatrope you can take less hgh then if you used a generic hgh brand. That's why I posted the poll to see what people thought. And apparently in tijuana it's $7 an iu for humatrope by lilly.. I'll believe it when I see it!

I'm trying to get my medical insurance to pay for my meds, but my doctor is a SOB, he thinks my baseline igf-1 value of 200 is good enough.. for a 30 yr old.. the normal range is 100-450 and he won't give it out unless it's under 100. So I have to pay 600 a month out of pocket!..

[fatsbastard]

not 200mg cyp bro but 2000mg but u dont do thjat ok man i`m very experienced in this field.
And normally u get red welts from 192 hgh not the 191 so u wil have to check that one out bro.

And chinese hgh is just as good as any other as far as i can tell ....4iu is 4iu.

later FB

[lavaman]

DAMM 2000 mg a week, that's some serious pump there.
that definatlely is not your first cyle.

Another question...

Because of my pituatary condition, I"ll have to take test indefinately.. most likely at 150 mg a week, Currently though for the next 10-12 weeks I'll be doing 500 mg of test cyp, so does that mean I don't have to do an PCT?
Has anyone had experience with continous testosorone therapy....
I guess I only have to be concerned with the estrogen but what about anything else?

Thanks in advance..

[fatsbastard]

wel i dont think u wil need pct ever becasue there is nothing to stimulate to produce test in your body.

and no not my first cycle i`m at it for over 10 years.

later FB

[Juice_Monkey]

Lavaman - You have to be cautious of staying on test long term because your hematocrit and hemoglobin levels in your blood tests can become dangerously high. That is one of the reasons we cycle on and off. You do have to be cautious of estrogen and should be using some real anti-e to battle that, don't use some crap over the counter store brand, when dealing with real hormones. Also, get off the ephedrine. At your weight and adding test and HGH to your body, I think I agree with your friends, get off before you have a fvc**ng stroke or heart attack. Last, the HGH will not harm you with test, it is the best combo you can use. The HGH opens and makes more cell receptors for the test to do its job better.

[lavaman]

thanks for the advice..

I stopped using the ephedra and now I've switched hgh BRANDS, i'm not using the crappy clubhgh chinese b.s. and now i'm using signature pharmacy's... and let me tell you signature's product is so much better no more marks on my stomach.
My muscles are getting alot bigger, and my chest has a nice bulge... It's nice to see something solid instead of flab!
My wife even complimented me that my abs are getting harder..!
I'll post some before and after pics..
My weight hasn't gone down but my body fat and strength has improved..

[lavaman]

Today is officaly the start of week 5 and I finally feel the power of the test-cyp and/or GH. I was at the gym today and curled the whole rack of weights about 140 pounds 10 times... I amazed my self before I could barely do it once.. That's some crazy shit, coming from someone that just started lifting weights again four months ago from a break of 10 years! I was able to put two plates and bench it 8 times with room for more.. 4 months ago I was barely doing 1 plate once! I can't wait to get this fat off and start looking good again.

One the downside, my weight shot up 5 pounds this week.. so I'm going to have to watch the carb intake I slipped a little last week on the diet...I had normal people food at a restraunt including bread,carbs, etc.. sort of over did it with appetizers and desert. I was startving.. going on 1500-1800 calories with my work out schdule makes you hungry like a jackal!...
the good thing is that my body fat has been going down so I know that I gained 5 pounds of muslce or it could just be water...

One of these days I'll take some pics....I'm just not proud of the way I look at 380.. but it's an improvement on the way I looked at 435!

at week 5, I have just enough gear and gh to continue till next month but I just got laid off last week so I have to be really strategic with my finances, untill I get another job or my unemployment check rolls in.. Hopefully I'll find some better prices then 8 an iu really soon! .

in the meantime.. I might cut back to 2 iu a day from 4iu just to streth out the remaining supply or I can just hitup my credit card!....

Thanks for all the replies!

[lavaman]

Hey started week 6,
I added some injectable winny 50mg ED, with the test cyp at 500-750 a week, and gh at 4iu 5on2off. So far I've noticed the fat loss big time around the stomach area. My bench is up to 255, and I've lost about 2 pounds so far body fat dropped 1 percent. I'm more focused and feel more confident pushing the bigger weights..

[Josey Wales]

Hey bro, are you really only eating 1500-1800 cals a day? That's way, way too low. I'm 211lbs and a cutting diet for me is 2700cals a day. You are on a cutting diet that is typical for a 115lb women. Your metabolism is going to slow way down. It's not surprising that you feel you need to binge sometimes. Look around in the diet section of this board for info on what your diet should be.

And as was noted before, your friend in the gym doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. GH causes hyperplasia (creates new muscle cells) and fat loss and Test causes hypertrophy (makes the muscle cells you already have larger). Test and HGH are best used together. Though you do need to cycle the test.

Finally, trash that herbal anti-estrogen. Tell your HRT doc to give you Arimidex and Nolvadex . If he won't give them to you, see the link to the board sponsor. Take .25mg of Arimidex every other day or every third day, depending on how much test you are taking. Use the Nolva if you begin to see signs of gyncomastia. Good luck.

[lavaman]

Hey bro, are you really only eating 1500-1800 cals a day? That's way, way too low. I'm 211lbs and a cutting diet for me is 2700cals a day. You are on a cutting diet that is typical for a 115lb women. Your metabolism is going to slow way down. It's not surprising that you feel you need to binge sometimes. Look around in the diet section of this board for info on what your diet should be.

And as was noted before, your friend in the gym doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. GH causes hyperplasia (creates new muscle cells) and fat loss and Test causes hypertrophy (makes the muscle cells you already have larger). Test and HGH are best used together. Though you do need to cycle the test.

Finally, trash that herbal anti-estrogen. Tell your HRT doc to give you Arimidex and Nolvadex. If he won't give them to you, see the link to the board sponsor. Take .25mg of Arimidex every other day or every third day, depending on how much test you are taking. Use the Nolva if you begin to see signs of gyncomastia. Good luck.

Thanks for the post!
do I need to take the arimidex even if I don't have signs of gyno?
I heard it inhibits muscle growth .. ? And I actually bumped my calorie intake to 2200 I'm trying to loose fat big time! What happens if you the test doesn't have enough calories will the test goto waste? so far this cycle I've only gained 5 pounds and just added some winny... I'm doing cardio like a madman, as well....

[abstrack]

I have been glancing through this thread and a few things I would like to add. Since you are cutting you need to give your body fat to let go of fat. That very well could have been the reason you hit a plateau and your body had stopped releasing its own fat. Also arimidex does not inhibit growth. It very well would promote more growth. At that high of a BF% it would be very hard to tell if you are having bad sign of gyno not unless you were having a discomfort in that area but not everybody including myself feel the burning sensation of nipple discomfort. I would take the arimidex and nolva as a precautionary measure.

2200 cals for a guy your size seems a bit drastic to be at, not unless you are around 5'6" You low caloric defecit could be very well why you hit a plateau. You dropped your cals too low and too quick could also be another reason why you hit that plateau.

[lavaman]

Abstract:

thanks for the post...

Yeah it's a trip since I've been on this cycle... I've stayed at the same weight. I've even increased my calories, but I think the Test/ is making me retain water. As far as the armidex, or nolva do you think I can get away with just using armidex of would you recommend nolvadex .

I know my diet is wrong, so I listened to your advise and planned on working with swolcat in the near future.

Peace

[lavaman]

Ok I freaking gained 13 pounds, because I felt too tired and fatigued to do cardio this past week... and I increased my calories because I was not getting enough food and feeling burned out all the time...

My strength has improved dramatically but I think my body is growing so much that it's just tired from all the training I've been doing.. so I've modified my schdule, to include more resting days.

My abs are looking alot better, well considering I have a beeer belly ( 1 pack), it's not as big as before and my skin is tighting up.
My biceps have gotten huge! I can't tell what is from the test/winny/gh at 7 weeks.

I also started the liquidex at .5 ed, and nolva at 10mg a day.
we'll see if it helps bring down the water..

One question!

I screwed up a vein in my shoulder from injecting winny there, their is a knot! does anyone know how to treat it..

[abstrack]

the vein will heal on its own.

If you just dialed in your diet right you would not be so fatigued. What is you work out split like? what days ,sets ,reps ,etc....

[lavaman]

Hey Bro,
Actually I just bought some b12 and that has helped a little.

My workout schdule is like this..
Monday chest
tuesday biceps and shoulders
Wed back and tri
thursday chest
friday biceps and shoulders
sat back/tri

I know it sounds like i'm over training..but I'm doing 1 hour a day of weights and I was doing 1 hour of cardio but I couldnt get myself to do it these past two weeks. I think the AAS/WINNY/HGH is weighing me down cardio wise.. or it's in my head I'm just paranoid of my blood pressure because I can feel my heart pound.


My diet is pretty clean I eat alot of protein maybe 300 grams a day or close to it. I upped the fat because I was eating too lean, and now i'm up too 2000-3000 calorie. once I upped the calories, and stopped the cardio I gained 15 pounds of lean mass! I know that's unbelievable.. but I did a body fat test and it stayed the same.. I'm on the arimidex /nolva so I dont think i'm retaining water anymore. I jumped from 380-395 damm near.

I figure I'm on week 7 of 12 of the Test at 750/winny 50 ed and the gh is on going at 4iu. My stomach has gone down and all the weight is going to my upper body I actually have definition at 40 percent body fat can you believe that. LOL! it's all in my gut...

[rodge]

whats this no leg workout????

-rodge

[lavaman]

the Vein thing is from a winny injection gone bad!

I thought I would mix some test-cyp with winny in a 29 gauge 1/2 syringe and inject it on my shoulder to see how it would work.. unfortutely it did not go in deep enough because I have a huge bruise and a knot that is hard on the top of my muscle.. It looks bad.. but It doesnt hurt anymore..
Do you think I have to do anything special for that.

[lavaman]

Hey rodge.. I know this sounds hard to believe but I'm naturally allready strong on my legs from carrying all this freaking weight..
I'm trying to conserve all my energy for my upper body because I can allready squat in the 300 range.. and my leg workout is mainly a intense 1 hour incline treadmill moderate walk...

I figure once I drop down some weight I'll go back and even out the legs!..
my calfs are the size of your hamstrings

[kaorialfred]

for your size and weight that you have described, I would imagine Test and GH being enough. Why are you doing winny? Also noticed you got some B12. Where did you get that advice. Listen just to be on the safe side. Try not to depend on the drugs but more your own self. I think you should get a job then get a trainer. You stopping and starting cardio is bad news for your goals. I wonder about the intensty of the workouts? If your doing weight watchers, I would imagine your support group would notice the diffrence in your body compostiton. Your wife is also the best to judge that also. Get your BF checked but don't rely to much on it also. There are margins for era in that. I wish you the best in your quest, CARDIO, CARDIO,CARDIO,
get back on it!!!!!

good luck

[lavaman]

Yeah I know buck that.. you know when you get in that hypochondriactic paranoid phase, where your afraid your going to push your heart too hard.. well at least I was sort of concerned.. when I was lifting weights and getting hella tired.. maybe I wasn't eating enough..

Someone told me here, to get the b12, i'm taking b6.. and I'm doing the test-cyp/winny/hgh to optimize results.. I figure might as well hit it hard.. I was getting checked out by the dr. I took a huge self esteem hit for 5 years, going from a competive athletic figure to a obese beer belly figure.. so I know i'm obbessed now. .but that's the only way I know how to do it.. All or nothing..

I figure the risks of being fat and overweight are more then doing AAS/hg/ and hitting weights and cardio hard..
AT least i'm doing the stomach bypass..

WW is ok.. the only reason why i'm doing it is my wife is there and it's the only scale that can measure me ! lol

I"m going back to my 7 days a week 1 hour cardio routine!
I lost 55 pounds just doing that..
I wish I could show you guys before and after pics but i'm too ashamed.. at how fat I was!

[lavaman]

Ok, I'm going to take the dive and switch over to the Darkside..
I've decided to start using Jintropin instead of the domestic pharmacy compound from my anti-aging clinic. Now I can save some money, and continue to run at least the GH through the end of the year.

Is there anything diffrent about Jintropin vs. other brands of GH! I got into an argument at the gym with this GH snob that use's Humatrope by Lilly. He was telling me that Jin is not as strong as humatrope, and I dont know I find that hard to believe! it's like saying generic ibuprophin is diffrent then Advil same crap... I thought jin is 191 rdna somotropin and the same with humatrope, so why do people keep saying that it's better! I just hope I don't welts like the crap from Clubhgh, they use a chinese distrubtor!..

Anyways any feed back or experience would be helpful.!

[abstrack]

No offense bro but you should re-evalute your approach. You are doing very good a making life changes for the better but why not make the choices you are making the very best ones for yourself and your body.

You need to work legs. I dont care how strong naturally you say they are. If you train your legs you upper body is going to respond better. No need to train arms twice per week or even your chest. You need to allow enough recovery time so you can grow and get stronger.

Take this advice from somebody who has been down that path of doing shit wrong. I just wish I had a group of people who pointed me in the right direction 4-5 years ago.

i wish you best of luck on your endeavors!

[lavaman]

No offense bro but you should re-evalute your approach. You are doing very good a making life changes for the better but why not make the choices you are making the very best ones for yourself and your body.

You need to work legs. I dont care how strong naturally you say they are. If you train your legs you upper body is going to respond better. No need to train arms twice per week or even your chest. You need to allow enough recovery time so you can grow and get stronger.

Take this advice from somebody who has been down that path of doing shit wrong. I just wish I had a group of people who pointed me in the right direction 4-5 years ago.

i wish you best of luck on your endeavors!

Done I will do legs!

I came to this board so that I can learn from the pro's..
I'll leave it open to the board, to come up with a new routine starting Monday..
I'll follow that one from now on...

thanks abstract, and everyone else for your guidance!

[lavaman]

My workout schdule is like this..now. someone give me something really good for 7 days!

Monday chest
tuesday biceps and shoulders
Wed back and tri
thursday chest
friday biceps and shoulders
sat back/tri

[abstrack]

Ygapm

[Keywestlifter]

My workout schdule is like this..now. someone give me something really good for 7 days!

Monday chest
tuesday biceps and shoulders
Wed back and tri
thursday chest
friday biceps and shoulders
sat back/tri

Hey Lavaman,

Glad to see you're hanging in there. I'm basically on the same cycle you're on with exception for the winny. One thing I just added is T3 @ 20mcgs/day, I'm surprised no one mentioned it to you here. FIrst thing I've noticed is a slight raise in my body temperature. I dont know, do you have a thyroid problem? I'm not sure if you are able to use T3 based on you medical condition but surely you will have to consider that in as a variable. Also, I'm using Letro to combat the sides from the test. Do some research on those two chemicals. I know you're adventurous and willing to experiment, just be careful, when I say that I'm speaking to myself as well.

I'm starting my third week tomorrow, already my bench is up 30lbs and I can feel my body dynamics changing in a way that I like. I'm sure its from the test cyp, also I'm up 9 lbs since day one. I'm thinking of starting Igf-1 with this cycle. Havnt decided yet. Also, I'm thinking of upping my hgh from 3iu to 4iu. I havent had any sides yet, only very slight tightening of my joints in my fingers.

Question: is your winny from signature also?? What have you noticed with the addition of winny? and I want to know how you like the switch from Signature to another Brand of hgh.

Good luck Bro

keywestlifter

[lavaman]

Hey Lavaman,

Glad to see you're hanging in there. I'm basically on the same cycle you're on with exception for the winny. One thing I just added is T3 @ 20mcgs/day, I'm surprised no one mentioned it to you here. FIrst thing I've noticed is a slight raise in my body temperature. I dont know, do you have a thyroid problem? I'm not sure if you are able to use T3 based on you medical condition but surely you will have to consider that in as a variable. Also, I'm using Letro to combat the sides from the test. Do some research on those two chemicals. I know you're adventurous and willing to experiment, just be careful, when I say that I'm speaking to myself as well.

I'm starting my third week tomorrow, already my bench is up 30lbs and I can feel my body dynamics changing in a way that I like. I'm sure its from the test cyp, also I'm up 9 lbs since day one. I'm thinking of starting Igf-1 with this cycle. Havnt decided yet. Also, I'm thinking of upping my hgh from 3iu to 4iu. I havent had any sides yet, only very slight tightening of my joints in my fingers.

Question: is your winny from signature also?? What have you noticed with the addition of winny? and I want to know how you like the switch from Signature to another Brand of hgh.

Good luck Bro

keywestlifter

I'm weary of the t-3, because my dr told me that it could permanantly damage your thyroid. I'm not there yet but I'll wait and see after my AAS cycle is up.

The Winny is great, it literally works magic with the gh/test. I inject it in my triceps and they look and feel rock hard. I have a high BF so its amazing how I'm getting defintition. It's been only 2 weeks on the winny, I dont know if I notice any strength gains yet..

Signature products are great, the GH has been awesome..Hardly no sides at 4iu a day. The winny is awesome too, it's human grade so I dont know if that makes a big diffrence but you have a little pain the first week or so but after thatyour body gets used to it.
The only reason why I'm going to swtich brands is price.. signature is about 100 a bottle for winny, and 8 an Iu for the gh. I can't sustain the costs over a year doing it that way... so I'm switching to jino and some more affordable brands of winny. Great thing about Signature is that it's legit with your name on it!

[Keywestlifter]

I'm weary of the t-3, because my dr told me that it could permanantly damage your thyroid. I'm not there yet but I'll wait and see after my AAS cycle is up.

The Winny is great, it literally works magic with the gh/test. I inject it in my triceps and they look and feel rock hard. I have a high BF so its amazing how I'm getting defintition. It's been only 2 weeks on the winny, I dont know if I notice any strength gains yet..

Signature products are great, the GH has been awesome..Hardly no sides at 4iu a day. The winny is awesome too, it's human grade so I dont know if that makes a big diffrence but you have a little pain the first week or so but after thatyour body gets used to it.
The only reason why I'm going to swtich brands is price.. signature is about 100 a bottle for winny, and 8 an Iu for the gh. I can't sustain the costs over a year doing it that way... so I'm switching to jino and some more affordable brands of winny. Great thing about Signature is that it's legit with your name on it!

All that you've mentioned is also a concern to me. I'm doing my doses of the t3 at the very minimum just to see if I tolerate it, 12.5mcgs/d. The cost of this life experiment is also a concern of mine. It seems that everytime I add something new, I read how to improve it with just one more substance, adding cost to the cocktail. It has to end somewhere or I will be taking 5-6 substances and spending $2000/mo. Already, I'm taking hgh, t3, cyp, letro, gnc mega-men gold....just one more and I will be at 6 different things. Still I'm on it, willing to experiment, still thinking about igf-1 or winny. If I did add an anabolic it would be winny. I just wouldnt know which one was working first, hgh,test,t3. Is the winny you have 100mg/ml or 50mg/ml? Does it come in a 10ml vial or a 20?? At 50 mg/day even that could get expensive. Just so you know, I can get Jin via a Legal avenue at around $5iu. Yes I know its cheaper blackmarket but I said Legal. Which is a big deal to both you and I. Thats why I choose Oasis to begin with.

Dont worry, I'm having the time of my life , its fun..I dont wont to sound depressed or anything. I'm greatful to be in a position in my life that I can do this. And I wouldnt miss it for the world, its very important to me, or trust me I wouldnt be sticking myself everyday with a syringe


Good luck,
keywestlifter

[lavaman]

my winny is 50mg/ml 10ml bottle, yeah it's expensive, but I heard so much good shit abougt it..

You should hear my wife bitch about my life experiement! LOL, good post there! ha ha ha
she grabbed all that I'm taking including my suppliments, and took it to the dr's to my appointment without me knowing and the dr told her to throw away my ehpedra!
I was so mad..
anyways, I told her at least i'm not doign the stomach bypass surgery!

Jino at 5 is good, for legal..!
my only problem is that I can't tell what are gains from the test vs. hgh vs winny etc,

I would definately go with the winny if you can afford it but use it towards the end of your cycle..

I was thinking about what everyone has been posting and what abstract was saying about diet.. and I think alot of my reasons for being burned out at the end of my work out week is that my food intake is not high enough. As soon as I bumped the test to 750 and took the winny, I started to eat more and my energy came back.. I think the gh and test soaks food up like a sponge.
When I was on less calories, my body weight stayed the same give or take 1-5 pounds but I was so damm tired all the time.