IGF and Nolvadex

**itsjinx** · 08-11-2005, 03:29 PM

I recently finished a 30day cycle of IGF at 80mcg per day. I didn't see any results whatsoever and I'm trying to figure out why. I read somewhere that Nolvadex lowers IGF levels. Throughout half the cycle I was taking 10mg to 20mg of Nolvadex per day so I'm wondering if that counteracted the IGF? Any thoughts are welcomed!

**Slic4788** · 08-11-2005, 03:49 PM

How was your diet? And you trust your source well?

**vestax** · 08-11-2005, 04:03 PM

did you feel really hungry on it? and sometimes sweat after you eat carbs? or was it in the heat for a long time it may have denatured. at 80mcg of the shit you should definately have seen some results it is possible you lost fat and gained muscle and had no net change in weight. also, if you used it for PCT it may have just solidified your gains rather than added any which means your prob would have lost whatever you gained during PCT...

**juict** · 08-11-2005, 07:38 PM

bump for more info

**itsjinx** · 08-11-2005, 08:37 PM

thanks for all the replies. my diet was decent and protein was around 300 to 400grams, i could have used more protein but i would have atleast supposedly seen some gains on the diet i had. This wasn't used for PCT. I am in the beginning of a cycle with no gains yet. Some fat has been loss but that is probably due to the GH because ive been on that for 2 months now and plus i don't have much fat to lose, i probably lost 1/2% of bf because I'm lean as it is.

As far as the source, I got it directly from the manufacturers website where everyone gets it. The brand is O***A and is widely used so I know it was real. Any thoughts?

**Slic4788** · 08-11-2005, 09:18 PM

nolva does lower igf-1 but I don't know by how much?(%?) And is it even noticable? I did want to know this too.

bump for any vets/mods info.

**Slic4788** · 08-11-2005, 09:33 PM

Activation of the somatotropic axis by testosterone in adult males: evidence for the role of aromatization.

Weissberger AJ, Ho KK.

Garvan Institute of Medical Research, St. Vincent's Hospital, Sydney, NSW, Australia.

To determine whether testosterone modulates the somatotropic axis in adult males, we compared 24-h GH secretion (from 20-min sampling, using Cluster analysis) and insulin -like growth factor-I (IGF-I) levels of five hypogonadal men (aged 20-32 yr) with those of six normal men (aged 21-27 yr), and examined the effects of testosterone replacement (testosterone enanthate 250 mg im monthly). To elucidate whether the action of testosterone on the somatotropic axis is direct, or requires the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol, we also examined the effects of the nonsteroidal antiestrogen, tamoxifen (20 mg/day for 3 weeks), on 24-h GH secretion and IGF-I levels in the normal men and in four of the hypogonadal men during concurrent testosterone treatment. Compared to the normal men, the hypogonadal men had significantly reduced mean GH pulse amplitude (3.1 +/- 0.6 vs. 8.4 +/- 1.7 micrograms/L, P < 0.05), but not pulse frequency. Testosterone treatment resulted in a significant increase in 24-h mean serum GH (0.7 +/- 0.2 to 1.4 +/- 0.2 micrograms/L, P < 0.05), mean GH pulse amplitude (3.1 +/- 0.6 to 5.2 +/- 0.8 micrograms/L, P < 0.01) and serum IGF-I (0.9 +/- 0.1 to 1.1 +/- 0.1 U/mL, P < 0.05). In the normal men, tamoxifen significantly reduced 24-h mean serum GH (1.1 +/- 0.3 to 0.5 +/- 0.1 micrograms/L, P < 0.05), mean GH pulse amplitude (8.4 +/- 1.7 to 4.7 +/- 0.4 micrograms/L, P < 0.05), and serum IGF-I (1.0 +/- 0.1 to 0.7 +/- 0.1 U/mL, P < 0.001). In the hypogonadal men on testosterone replacement , tamoxifen lowered 24-h mean serum GH (1.3 +/- 0.2 to 0.6 +/- 0.2 micrograms/L, P < 0.01), mean GH pulse amplitude (5.5 +/- 1.0 to 2.4 +/- 0.8 micrograms/L, P < 0.01), and serum IGF-I (1.2 +/- 0.1 to 0.8 +/- 0.1 U/mL, P < 0.05). We conclude that testosterone plays an important role in the modulation of the male somatotropic axis in adulthood, as appears to be the case in puberty, and that this effect is partly dependent on the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol.

Ok, nevermind it does reduce IGF-1 by a LOT...(by about 50%)

**itsjinx** · 08-11-2005, 11:51 PM

i'd like to hear some vet opinions on this, or even rodge nl...

**SD1959** · 08-12-2005, 07:45 AM

Even though most say gh and igf are a good match, I have read (sorry I can;t remember where) that they actually are much better used seperately. Perhaps those more knowledgable than me could elaborate.

**itsjinx** · 08-12-2005, 10:13 AM

yeah. bump bump bump

**rodge** · 08-13-2005, 05:50 AM

i don't think nolva has that big of an influence to lr3 igf-1 or even when on hgh,but i myself don't take the chance and use aromasin instead just in case.

-rodge

**rodge** · 08-13-2005, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by SD1959

Even though most say gh and igf are a good match, I have read (sorry I can;t remember where) that they actually are much better used seperately. Perhaps those more knowledgable than me could elaborate.

igf and hgh are a good match cause igf is what causes hyperplasia and hgh recruites the needed satelite cells.and there for in theory you should be able to run the igf for a longer period of time then the recomended 4-6 weeks.

-rodge

**itsjinx** · 08-13-2005, 09:51 AM

u the shizz rodge. thanks buddy

**Slic4788** · 08-13-2005, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by rodge nl.

igf and hgh are a good match cause igf is what causes hyperplasia and hgh recruites the needed satelite cells.and there for in theory you should be able to run the igf for a longer period of time then the recomended 4-6 weeks.

-rodge

um, hyperplasia and recrution of new satellite cells are the same thing.