why do people say anything less than 40mcg of igf is worthless...enlighten me

[Mealticket]

If every i.u. of gh used produces 5-7 mics of igf then why would 40mcg ed be a waste; or even 25mcgs?

25 mcg =4-5 i.u. of gh in comparison
40mcg=6-8 i.u. of gh. in comparison

seems like the breakdown makes sense to me...........maybe you can't "feel" it like you can when on 60 or 80 mics.....but it's still got to do good!??

[Puffader]

Everyone is different. Try it at 40mcg for your first cycle. If it doesnt work well, next time bump it up to 60, then 80...I went from 40 right to 80 and 80 seems right for me.
40am, 40 PWO

[j martini]

If every i.u. of gh used produces 5-7 mics of igf then why would 40mcg ed be a waste; or even 25mcgs?

25 mcg =4-5 i.u. of gh in comparison
40mcg=6-8 i.u. of gh. in comparison

seems like the breakdown makes sense to me...........maybe you can't "feel" it like you can when on 60 or 80 mics.....but it's still got to do good!??

Gh is used over an extended period of time igf cycles are short in duration with less time to make gains.

The results from igf1 even at higher doses are not miraculous, so running a low dose will likely result in very little if any gains. IGF1 is a useful drug but it needs to be run in higher doses to be satisfied with the results.

[HumanPerfection1]

40 is a good starting dose, i started at 70mcg shit felt like insulin dizzy and hungry 30min later, injected it im. My friend grew real nice off of 40mcg.

[SPIKE]

40 is a good starting dose, i started at 70mcg shit felt like insulin dizzy and hungry 30min later, injected it im. My friend grew real nice off of 40mcg.

What kind was he using?????

[oswaldosalcedo]

imo LR3 is worthless.
maybe over 100 mcg but se* will be pronounced.





side efffects.

[Seattle Junk]

Remember GH eventually (2-3 months) releases a continous amount of your endogenous IGF-1 via your liver. This has 100% receptor affinity opposed to lr3 IGF-1 which I believe does not.

[Puffader]

Yeah, ok....

imo LR3 is worthless.
maybe over 100 mcg but se* will be pronounced.





side efffects.

[SPIKE]

imo LR3 is worthless.
maybe over 100 mcg but se* will be pronounced.





side efffects.

That's a bold statement. Is this comment pertaining to personal experience or specific research????? If research then I'd love to see it.

I feel your pain though b/c I just finished up 60mcg and didnt feel much of anything. Going to switch up a couple of things next run.......I'm confident that it will provide results.

[oswaldosalcedo]

i wish good luck to you bro.

[SPIKE]

i wish good luck to you bro.

As to you, you deserve it

[oswaldosalcedo]

thanks

[Pinnacle]

imo LR3 is worthless.
maybe over 100 mcg but se* will be pronounced.





side efffects.

Let me tell you about my last week on my IGf cycle.first off,the first 5 days of my cycle I ran 100 mcgs split 2x daily.Didn't see any difference between that and 80 mcgs.So I dropped the dose down to 80 mcgs 2x daily and went from there.We'll,may last week I decided to experiment(since I already achieved the results I was looking for on this cycle).I ran 100 mcgs PWO,and all I can say is WOW!!
I never felt this full before on an IGF cycle EVER!!Weight went up 1 lb and I'm looking far more vascular than I was at 80 mcgs.I'm not so sure splitting the dose is the way to go really.I see the logic behind it,and see the results.You do seems to cut BF splitting the dose.But possibly,just possibly,if you want size,all at once with a high dose might be the answer.My next cycle I'll do 100 mcgs PWO only and see what the deal is.

~Pinnacle~

[Puffader]

Hit some slin with that IGF. Then you can say WOW

Let me tell you about my last week on my IGf cycle.first off,the first 5 days of my cycle I ran 100 mcgs split 2x daily.Didn't see any difference between that and 80 mcgs.So I dropped the dose down to 80 mcgs 2x daily and went from there.We'll,may last week I decided to experiment(since I already achieved the results I was looking for on this cycle).I ran 100 mcgs PWO,and all I can say is WOW!!
I never felt this full before on an IGF cycle EVER!!Weight went up 1 lb and I'm looking far more vascular than I was at 80 mcgs.I'm not so sure splitting the dose is the way to go really.I see the logic behind it,and see the results.You do seems to cut BF splitting the dose.But possibly,just possibly,if you want size,all at once with a high dose might be the answer.My next cycle I'll do 100 mcgs PWO only and see what the deal is.

~Pinnacle~

[oswaldosalcedo]

Let me tell you about my last week on my IGf cycle.first off,the first 5 days of my cycle I ran 100 mcgs split 2x daily.Didn't see any difference between that and 80 mcgs.So I dropped the dose down to 80 mcgs 2x daily and went from there.We'll,may last week I decided to experiment(since I already achieved the results I was looking for on this cycle).I ran 100 mcgs PWO,and all I can say is WOW!!
I never felt this full before on an IGF cycle EVER!!Weight went up 1 lb and I'm looking far more vascular than I was at 80 mcgs.I'm not so sure splitting the dose is the way to go really.I see the logic behind it,and see the results.You do seems to cut BF splitting the dose.But possibly,just possibly,if you want size,all at once with a high dose might be the answer.My next cycle I'll do 100 mcgs PWO only and see what the deal is.

~Pinnacle~

well you are at the beginning in the climb of doses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo:
"maybe over 100 mcg"

[SPIKE]

.My next cycle I'll do 100 mcgs PWO only and see what the deal is.

~Pinnacle~

Keep us updated with that one Pinnacle. I'm going to bang out 80mcg myself next run and was contemplating PWO or Split. Split b/c of the obvious reasons but PWO b/c I'm looking for dense lean mass. With the schedule I'm on you'll probably be going up before me. So keep us informed buddy.

-Jay

[Mealticket]

hijacking bitches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Slic4788]

Remember GH eventually (2-3 months) releases a continous amount of your endogenous IGF-1 via your liver. This has 100% receptor affinity opposed to lr3 IGF-1 which I believe does not.

Hm interesting SJ, I have thought about that before, but is there some sort of study or article out there on this?

[Seattle Junk]

Hm interesting SJ, I have thought about that before, but is there some sort of study or article out there on this?

Yeah, there is plenty of data out there. Just search this form for some good stuff. Rodge and Johnny are good sources.

I'm on the 2nd week of MR IGF-1 and making gains...I think I gained 6lbs in the last week with 100mgs prop ed. I think I took on a lot of water because of the creatine though, not the test. Creatine gives me headaches too so I'm just going to stop creatine since I just don't seem to handle it too well. Creatine gave me sides in the past so nothing has changed with it. I just can't use it. It's too bad cause it's a great off cycle supp. My strength is getting very good, but again, that's from water leverage, I know. I just look very full right now. Good football physique but not what I want anymore. I was down to 188lbs 4 months ago. I'm 212lbs now. I'm more interested in looking lean than bulky. I still have definition it's just starting to fade from the water. I'll take some i-dex like Pinny says.

GH releases natty IGF-1 from the liver so that'll go on for as long as you stay on GH. But also IGF-2 (roid gut). lr3 IGF-1 is a altered form of IGF-1 that increases it's half life by quite a bit. 30-40 days is the max IGF-1 works until it fades out.

[oswaldosalcedo]

Hm interesting SJ, I have thought about that before, but is there some sort of study or article out there on this?

the change is immediate,not 2-3 month later.

"High Dose Growth Hormone Exerts an Anabolic Effect at Rest and during Exercise in Endurance-Trained Athletes
M. L. Healy, J. Gibney, D. L. Russell-Jones, C. Pentecost, P. Croos, P. H. Sönksen and A. M. Umpleby
Department of Diabetes and Endocrinology, GKT School of Medicine, St. Thomas Hospital, London, United

r-hGH-treated

------------------ Baseline --------- 1wk-----------4 wk--------- /Placebo-
IGF-I (nmol/liter) 24.6 ± 3.0 / 89.6 ± 12.21-- 106.3 ± 16.41/ 25.8 ± 2.7-- 25.4 ± 2.7-- 25.2 ± 2.6
fT3 (pmol/liter) 5.1 ± 0.3 6.0 ± 0.12 6.1 ± 0.22 4.8 ± 0.2 4.9 ± 0.2 4.8 ± 0.1
fT4 (pmol/liter) 15.5 ± 1.5 11.5 ± 1.02 10.6 ± 0.92 15.8 ± 1.6 15.6 ± 1.7 15.8 ± 1.5
Testosterone (nmol/liter) 18.3 ± 3.2 18.5 ± 3.4 18.5 ± 3.3 16.7 ± 2.6 16.3 ± 2.6 16.4 ± 2.2
Glucose (mmol/liter) 4.7 ± 0.3 5.5 ± 0.5 5.3 ± 0.2 4.5 ± 0.4 4.2 ± 0.2 4.4 ± 0.3
Insulin (mU/liter) 7.9 ± 1.6 22.6 ± 3.92 16.0 ± 9.32 6.0 ± 0.3 5.6 ± 1.9 9.3 ± 2.4
HOMA IR 1.4 ± 0.2 5.1 ± 1.02 3.3 ± 0.62 1.1 ± 0.4 1.0 ± 0.3 1.6 ± 0.5
Total cholesterol (mmol/liter) 4.3 ± 0.3 4.0 ± 0.5 4.1 ± 0.3 3.4 ± 0.3 3.3 ± 0.3 3.5 ± 0.6
Triglyceride 1.1 ± 0.2 2.0 ± 0.5 1.3 ± 0.1 0.6 ± 0.1 0.7 ± 0.1 0.5 ± 0.1
LDL cholesterol (mmol/liter) 2.6 ± 0.3 2.2 ± 0.3 2.3 ± 0.3 1.6 ± 0.4 1.6 ± 0.3 1.6 ± 0.5
HDL cholesterol (mmol/liter) 1.2 ± 0.1 1.0 ± 0.1 1.1 ± 0.1 1.5 ± 0.1 1.5 ± 0.1 1.7 ± 0.2
Body weight (kg) 74.4 ± 1.1 76.5 ± 1.72 77.9 ± 1.62 74.9 ± 3.4 74.9 ± 3.4 74.7 ± 3.3
Lean body mass (kg) 57.6 ± 1.1 61.0 ± 1.22 61.6 ± 2.5 61.8 ± 2.4
Total body fat (kg) 11.4 ± 1.4 11.6 ± 1.7 9.8 ± 1.9 10.1 ± 2.0
Trunk fat (kg) 4.7 ± 0.7 4.5 ± 0.9 2.8 ± 0.9 2.8 ± 0.9

There was no change in IGF-I levels in the placebo-treated group throughout the observation period. In contrast, in the r-hGH-treated group, IGF-I levels rose markedly, reaching levels outside the physiological range (P < 0.001; Table 2 ). These changes occurred within 7 d of commencing r-hGH administration and did not change further over the remaining 21-d period of r-hGH administration (Table 2 ). "

[Puffader]

I don't care what anything says. IGF works at 80mcg a day for me..

[oswaldosalcedo]

Remember GH eventually (2-3 months) releases a continous amount of your endogenous IGF-1 via your liver. This has 100% receptor affinity opposed to lr3 IGF-1 which I believe does not.

bros
just posted for:

Originally Posted by Seattle Junk:
Remember GH eventually (2-3 months) releases a continous amount of your endogenous IGF-1.


never relating it with LR3.
this is the most avant-garde forum in the net.

[Logan13]

Let me tell you about my last week on my IGf cycle.first off,the first 5 days of my cycle I ran 100 mcgs split 2x daily.Didn't see any difference between that and 80 mcgs.So I dropped the dose down to 80 mcgs 2x daily and went from there.We'll,may last week I decided to experiment(since I already achieved the results I was looking for on this cycle).I ran 100 mcgs PWO,and all I can say is WOW!!
I never felt this full before on an IGF cycle EVER!!Weight went up 1 lb and I'm looking far more vascular than I was at 80 mcgs.I'm not so sure splitting the dose is the way to go really.I see the logic behind it,and see the results.You do seems to cut BF splitting the dose.But possibly,just possibly,if you want size,all at once with a high dose might be the answer.My next cycle I'll do 100 mcgs PWO only and see what the deal is.

~Pinnacle~

interesting...I had to use a 25GA x 5/8" pin for 1 IGF injection. As you can guess, I had a hell of a time measuring out the correct amount and ended up pulling 90mcgs. This had mixed with my bact. water so I just injected it. I have to agree, I felt thick as hell all day.

[Pinnacle]

this is the most avant-garde forum in the net.

I see you're just having a blast here.That's cool,very cool.


Where you're digging up all this info is rather amazing.I have nor the time or patients to stift through abstracts like you do.god bless ya.


~Pinnacle~

[Slic4788]

There was no change in IGF-I levels in the placebo-treated group throughout the observation period. In contrast, in the r-hGH-treated group, IGF-I levels rose markedly, reaching levels outside the physiological range (P < 0.001; Table 2 ). These changes occurred within 7 d of commencing r-hGH administration and did not change further over the remaining 21-d period of r-hGH administration (Table 2 ). "[/QUOTE]


That's nice nice, I don't know where you pull up all these studies from lol...I never have that kind of luck.

But then the question is: why do its anablic effects(lowering fat and muscle) come AFTER 2-3 months? We always thought it was because of super IGF-1 levels that are brought up towards the end.

[HumanPerfection1]

What kind was he using?????

Premixed from MR

[DutchForce]

I hear stories when injecting Igtropin, 2x20mcg daily is enough.

There's a new hype going on in The Netherlands, a lot of people are shooting Nutral IGF-1 LR3 rightnow, from what I hear its supposed to be an UG lab.

But that stuff seems only to be used in dosages from up to 60mcg/day. I'm on it rightnow at 60-70 mcg/day, but no hypo, no extreme pumps.

But it does do its job in some ways.

So I figure there might be a difference in the potency of both brands.

[oswaldosalcedo]

There was no change in IGF-I levels in the placebo-treated group throughout the observation period. In contrast, in the r-hGH-treated group, IGF-I levels rose markedly, reaching levels outside the physiological range (P < 0.001; Table 2 ). These changes occurred within 7 d of commencing r-hGH administration and did not change further over the remaining 21-d period of r-hGH administration (Table 2 ). "

That's nice nice, I don't know where you pull up all these studies from lol...I never have that kind of luck.

But then the question is: why do its anablic effects(lowering fat and muscle) come AFTER 2-3 months? We always thought it was because of super IGF-1 levels that are brought up towards the end.[/QUOTE]

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.........well.......in bodybuilding and physiology i am obsessive- compulsive ...........lol....



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