Thread: how long to stay on gh
09-23-2005, 03:59 AM #1New Member
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- Sep 2005
how long to stay on gh
im new to the growth use. i am on my 7th kit of jintropin. been doing 5iu a day. how long should i stay on and should i cycle up and down like juice?
09-23-2005, 05:04 AM #2
As long as you can afford to use it, when you decide to stop, run out of money or your wife leaves you. Taper off it, so if your using 5iu ED, use 5iu mon-fri, then 5iu EOD. Just use less and less and try to avoide bedtime shots to get your own production going again.
09-23-2005, 05:26 AM #3New Member
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- Sep 2005
i can afford to keep going. since i can afford it should i taper like you said or keep going? what about food- my one friend said i should go nuts and eat everything.
09-23-2005, 09:04 AM #4Associate Member
Originally Posted by Big Bapper
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- Aug 2005
09-23-2005, 09:36 AM #5
no. it will only suppress for 4 hours.. so whey you come off, there is no need to taper..
Here is something from Red Baron..
Few other hormones have generated more excitement and hype in recent years than HGH. From reports of incredible fat loss to tales of increases in lean muscle that defies genetics, HGH has been touted as one of the panaceas of all bodybuilding woes. Depending on which statistics you trust, reports of as many as 80% of professional athletes have used or are using HGH as a supplement to their training program.
The purpose of this guide is to give you a good working knowledge of HGH and how to intelligently use it. While this is not intended to cover every conceivable nuance of HGH use, it should provide you with a solid background to create your cycle around. So lets take a look at this hormone called HGH.
WHAT EXACTLY IS HGH?
Human Growth Hormone (somatotropin - also referred to as rHGH, HGH, or GH) is created by the pituitary gland, the primary form consisting of a 191 amino acid chain. When we are young, HGH is in big part responsible for the proper growth of bones, muscle, and other tissues. To little of this hormone and we remain dwarfs Ö too much and we become giants and/or suffer from abnormal growth deformities. As we become adults, HGH is responsible for keeping muscles from wasting away, supports healthy immune system response, regulates aspects of our metabolic function dealing with increased fat metabolism and healthy body composition in later life, and maintains and repairs our skin and other tissues.
Our levels of HGH peak while we are adolescents and then begin to drop off sharply beginning in our 30ís. By our 60ís, our daily HGH secretion can be as little as 10% of what it was during our youth. Many of the markers of aging are affected by this decrease in HGH. Some of the results of this are:
∑ Increase in fat.
∑ Decrease in muscle and lean body structures.
∑ Decreased skin texture resulting in a less youthful appearance.
∑ Decreased bone density, onset of osteoporosis.
∑ Decreased brain function, loss of intellect with aging.
∑ Decreased sex drive.
∑ Decrease in overall physical and mental well being.
∑ Increase in sleep disorders, lower quality of sleep.
∑ Depression and fatigue.
The addition of supplemental HGH beginning in the later 30ís can reverse or improve these symptoms in the majority of people attempting therapy. This is why you will often hear references with respect to HGH as ďthe fountain of youthĒ and other similar terms. It can present a better quality of life for those aging as well as provide some great benefits for bodybuilders.
For bodybuilders, HGH (and the IGF-1 that is a result of its use) is the only substance that can actually initiate hyperplasia, which in the interest of our use in bodybuilding equates to new muscle cells. While use of anabolic steroids can cause hypertrophy (the enlargement of existing muscle cells), steroids do not offer the ability to recruit and mature more muscle cells. HGH can. HGH also increases protein synthesis, which can be responsible for hypertrophy. HGH also strengthens and heals connective tissues, cartilage, and tendons. These uses are what make it so attractive to athletes in all sports, and in bodybuilding in particular.
HOW IS HGH RELEASED IN YOUR BODY?
HGH is secreted from the pituitary in a pulsatile fashion, generally following a circadian rhythm. A number of stimuli can initiate an HGH secretion, the most powerful being short duration, high intensity exercise and sleep. During the first few hours of sleep (deep sleep stages), Somatostatin is turned off and GHRH is turned on, resulting in HGH bursts.
HGH secretion is stimulated by Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) which is produced by the hypothalamus. HGH, and IGF-1 create a negative feedback loop, meaning when their levels are high, it blunts release of GHRH, which in turn blunts the release of more HGH.
Somatostatin (SS), secreted by the hypothalamus as well as other tissues inhibits the secretion of HGH Somatostatin in response to GHRH and to other stimulatory factors such as low blood glucose concentration. High levels of IGF-1 also stimulate Somatostatin secretion.
Ghrelin is a peptide hormone secreted from the stomach. Ghrelin binds to receptors on somatotrophs and potently stimulates secretion of growth hormone. Ghrelin, as the stimulator for the growth hormone secretagogue receptor, potently stimulates secretion of growth hormone. The ghrelin signal is integrated with that of growth hormone releasing hormone and somatostatin to control the timing and magnitude of growth hormone secretion.
Once HGH is released, it is very short lived. It is generally metabolized and gone within a half-hour. During this half-hour, it travels to the liver and other tissues and induces them to secrete a polypeptide hormone called Insulin -like Growth Factor One (IGF-1).
HOW DOES HGH DO ITS WORK?
As mentioned above, HGH is short lived, but during its short half-hour or so activity per burst from the pituitary, it exerts itself through direct and indirect effects.
Its direct effects are the result of the HGH binding its receptor on target cells. Fat cells (adipocytes) as well as myocytes (muscle cells) have HGH receptors. On fat cells, HGH stimulates them to break down triglyceride and suppresses the fat cells ability to uptake circulating lipids.
Its indirect effects are in the process we described in the section above. When HGH travels to the liver, the result in its pass through the liver is the secretion of IGF-1. When this IGF-1 is secreted, it stimulates proliferation of chondrocytes (cartilage cells), which result in bone growth. It also plays a part in stimulating both the proliferation and differentiation of myoblasts (the precursor to skeletal muscle fibers). IGF-1 also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues.
HGH stimulates protein anabolism in many tissues. This reflects increased protein synthesis, decreased oxidation of proteins, and increased amino acid uptake. As mentioned above, HGH enhances fat utilization by stimulating triglyceride breakdown and oxidation in fat cells (adipocytes).
HGH can affect the function of other hormones. HGH can suppress the abilities of insulin to stimulate the uptake of glucose in tissues and enhance glucose synthesis in the liver, though administering HGH actually stimulates insulin secretion and can create a state of hyperinsulinemia. This combination can lead to decreased insulin sensitivity, which in turn can lead to hyperglycemia. HGH can also have a slight inhibitory effect on the thyroid, though this varies greatly from individual to individual. Weíll discuss more on how to deal with these potential effects later in this guide.
Okay, so we have a hormone that can assist with maintenance and healing of most of the bodyís systems, can create new cartilage, bone, and muscle cells, can assist with protein uptake, decrease the oxidation of proteins, and can accelerate the rate at which fat is utilized. This paints the picture of the excitement that follows HGH. So how do we utilize this to our advantage? Letís look at what is involved in exogenous HGH use.
HOW DO I INCREASE MY LEVELS OF HGH?
To state it simply, we need to inject exogenous HGH. There are a few methods to increase your own production of HGH, but for the most part these arenít going to give us the increase necessary to promote the benefits mentioned above in their full measure.
By adding several grams of Arginine and Glutamine to our daily supplement program, we can increase our levels of HGH. This increase equates for a very small amount though, so unless are very young or we are only in need of a modest jump in production, this is not an optimal way to proceed.
As mentioned at the beginning of our guide, intense short duration exercise will also induce a sizable HGH release.
Another possibility is to inject GHRH. This peptide is available from research companies and when injected at doses of 100mcgs per day, sub-q it does seem to show promise in increasing levels of HGH. At this stage, there isnít a real cost advantage to this over rHGH, so unless we are trying to promote some of the other forms of HGH in addition to the primary form, there is no clear advantage to this course of action.
What we are left with is acquiring and injecting recumbent Human Growth Hormone. The remainder of our guide will concentrate on its use.
INJECTIBLE HGH AND ITS USE
HGH only comes in the form of a lyophilized powder. Any other form that you see advertised or run across is NOT true HGH. The only way to administer true HGH is by sub-q or intramuscular injection.
HGH is somewhat fragile by nature, and it needs to be protected from light and heat. HGH should be stored between 36 and 46 degrees Fahrenheit at all times both before and after its reconstitution.
There are a couple of American brands of HGH that can survive in normal room temperature for a reasonable amount of time BEFORE reconstitution (Genotropin Ė 3 months, Saizen Ė until expiration) , but for the most part it is better safe than sorry. All brands of HGH should be refrigerated after being reconstituted, and all brands should be protected from light at all times.
RECONSTITUTING AND MEASURING YOUR HGH
So you now have a vial HGH in the form of lyophilized powder. The amount of this powder should be indicated on the vial somewhere. It will either be stated in Units (IU's) or in Milligrams (mg). If it is stated in milligrams, the conversion is most commonly stated as 1mg = ~3IU's (its really more precisely 1mg=2.7IU). We will use this 1mg = 3IU's for our guide since this is the standard most commonly referenced by manufacturers.
What we need to do with this lyophilized powder is add either some Bacteriostatic water (BW), Sterile Water, or even liquid vitamin B12 to reconstitute it and make it ready to inject.
What we choose to reconstitute it with should depend on how rapidly we use the GH. Bacteriostatic water is basically sterile water with 0.9% Benzyl Alcohol added, and this Alcohol keeps anything from growing in the water, thus making it safe for injection for the longest amount of time, up to three weeks. If the amount of GH in our vial is enough to last for a few weeks at our desired daily dosage, BW is the wisest choice. For the common use for bodybuilding (2-5 IU's a day) and the more commonly used vial size (10 IU's), it isn't really as critical which of the above listed dilutents are used......the vial will be used up long before bacteria or anything begins to grow in our reconstituted HGH. It is really personal preference outside of the considerations listed above.
1.) Take a alcohol swab and swab the stopper of both your HGH vial and the vial of the dilutent (BW, sterile water, B12).
2.) Take a 3cc syringe with a 23 or 25 gauge needle (1" or 1.5") and draw up and amount of your preferred dilutent. The amount isn't critical, other than making sure you know exactly how much you have used. The best rule of thumb is choose an amount that will make measuring the final product easy
example- 1ml(cc) per 10 IU vial of HGH would mean each 10 mark on a U100 slin syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH
2ml(cc) added to a 10 IU vial of HGH would mean that the 20 mark on a U100 syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH
3ml(cc) added to a 10 IU vial of HGH would mean that the 30 mark on a U100 syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH
3.) Take this syringe with the dilutent and push it into the vial of lyophilized powder, angling so that the needle touches the side of the vial, and avoiding shooting the dilutent directly on the lyophilized powder. Make it run slowly down the side of the vial (don't let it forcefully rush in).
4.) After all of the dilutent has been added to the HGH vial, gentling swirl (do NOT agitate or violently shake the vial) until the lyophilized powder has dissolved and you are left with a clear liquid. The HGH is now ready for use. Store your now reconstituted HGH in the refrigerator. If you used BW to reconstitute it will be good for three weeks. If you used sterile water, it will be good for about 5 days.
After you have successfully reconstituted your HGH, now you need to know how to measure the desired amount out for injection. You will want to use a U100 insulin syringe to draw out and inject your HGH.
Here is the way to figure out how much to draw out. Since you know the amount of IU's in your HGH vial, and you also know how much water you have diluted it with, we just divide this out as follows:
You will need to know the following to be successful -
1ml = 1cc = 100 IU's
So we take our number of IU's of HGH from the label of the dry lyophilized powder (most commonly 10 IU's for all of us Jintropin users), and we divide that into the amount of dilutent we used.
example- We used 1cc(ml) of water. We have a 10 IU vial of HGH.
From our formula above we know that 1cc = 100 IU's, so we have 100 IU's of water.
We now divide the 100 IU's (the amount of our water) by 10 IU's (the amount of our HGH)
100 IU / 10 IU = 10
This 10 will perfectly correspond with the markings on a U100 insulin syringe. In our example every 10 mark on our syringe will equal 1 IU of HGH. Want to draw out 2 IU's of GH? ....draw out to the 20 mark on the syringe.
This is about all there is to it. So to recap, just keep straight:
1.) How much actual HGH you are dealing with (read from the vial)
2.) How much water (dilutent) you are using to add to the actual HGH.
3.) Divide the amount of water in units by the amount of GH in units.
4.) This result will equal the measurement on your U100 Insulin syringe per unit of GH.
5.) multiply the number you get it step 4 by how many units you want to inject. This is the number to draw to on your syringe.
Now that we know what HGH is and how to reconstitute and measure it, lets look at some strategies for using it to our best advantage
STRATEGIES FOR USING HGH
There are many different approaches to taking HGH. The right approach for your particular situation will depend on your goals. For many, HGH is a general purpose supplement to help maintain low bodyfat percentages and reasonable levels of lean body mass. For others who have reached their genetic potential for growth, HGH is a supplement that can assist in continued growth beyond what mother nature gave you to work with. For yet others, it is a supplement that is used for general health and healing of injuries. Letís look at each of these uses with respect to a reasonable HGH program.
To begin with, it should be stated that for the vast majority of HGH users, results are not rapid and earthshaking in nature. If your idea of using HGH is to get ripped in a few weeks, gaining 20 pounds of muscle in a matter of a month or two, or being miraculously healed in a matter of a few injections Ö you are likely in for a BIG disappointment. HGH does some pretty incredible things, but it HAS to be viewed as a long-term endeavor. A reasonable length HGH cycle would be 20-30 weeks in length. While you will always be able to find the one or two individuals who will make great strides in a short amount of time, the majority need to be dedicated to its use for the long haul for it to be a worthy venture.
As mentioned in our introduction to HGH, one of the major roles it plays in growth is by its passing through the liver, which in turn secretes IGF-1. This process is cumulative in nature, and it will take some time for your exogenous HGH use to bring your IGF-1 levels to create an environment conducive to optimal growth. While it is true that HGH begins shuttling nutrients to your muscles, and begins mobilizing fat from the first injection, these behind the scenes benefits will only be VISIBLE several weeks (up to 12) down the road.
For anti-aging, general health & healing, fat mobilization
For these purposes, a dose of 2-3 IUís per day will be sufficient for the majority. A dose of 1.5 to 2.0 IUís is considered to be a full replacement dose for those in their middle-age and beyond.
For gaining lean muscle and substantially improving body composition
For this purpose a dose of 4-8 IUís per day will be necessary. Most people will respond very well at a dose of 4-5 IU's per day.
For maximum benefit in this regard, the addition of Testosterone, Insulin, and low-dose T3 would be something to seriously consider. More on this in our comparative cycle guide of HGH/Insulin/IGF-1.
Regardless of your goal, as a general rule the best way to begin your HGH program is to start with a low dose and ease your body into the higher doses. This will allow you to avoid or at least minimize many of the more common sides of HGH such as bloating and joint pain & swelling. Most people can tolerate up to approximately 2 IUís with few sides, so that would be a good place to start.
For many using this as a general health supplement, that is as high as you will need to go. For others this will be only the start. Above 2.5 Ė 3 IUís, I would definitely suggest that your split your injections into two per day instead of one unless it is just not feasible to do so.
Here is what a good ramp up program would look like:
Weeks 1-4 = HGH 2 IUís one injection
Week 5 = HGH 2.5 IUís one injection
Week 6 = HGH 3.0 IUís split into two injections of 1.5 IUís each
Week 7 = HGH 3.5 IUís split into two injections of 1.75 IUís each
And so forth until you reach your desired dose.
If at any point in this progression you begin to have unbearable bloating or joint pain, drop the dose by 25% and hold it at this lower dosage for a couple of weeks. If the sides subside, begin your progression back up toward your desired level. If the sides remain, lower your dose again and hold it at the lower level for two weeks before beginning the upward progression. This method will keep your HGH experience a good one and side free for the most part.
For a normal cycle of 5-8 months in length, injecting once or twice a day, 7 days a week should be fine. While there are studies that suggest that the suppression from exogenous HGH is short lived (about 4 hours from injection), there are no large-scale studies to indicate safety of everyday injections in long-term use. There are studies by anti-aging groups demonstrating that a day or two off per week is adequate to protect the pituitary and its triggers over long cycles. If your use of HGH becomes more a lifestyle than a single cycle, I would consider running it 5 on/2 off, or 6 on/ 1 off until such time as we have reliable data demonstrating long-term safety sans any degradation of your own output or the triggers initiating that output.
Another option would be to run your HGH cycle everyday for the first two months to get your IGF-1 levels elevated quickly and to a level to assist you in an anabolic way, then drop back to 5 days a week.
As described above, the body produces HGH is a pulsatile fashion throughout the day with the heaviest pulses occurring approximately 2-3 hours after going to bed as you fall into a deep sleep. Injectible HGH is completely absorbed and put to use within approximately 3 hours. The strategy with respect to timing depends somewhat on our age and the other elements of our cycle. As you will see below, there is no single best strategy Ö it depends a lot on your individual situation.
For those that are between their late 20ís and early 50ís, there is still a reasonable chance that your own endogenous production of HGH is still at a reasonable level. The best time to take and injection, this being the case, would be early morning Ö. After your bodyís own release of HGH in the night. If you get up to go to the bathroom in the early morning, this is probably the perfect time to take a couple of units of HGH. This will be the least disruptive time to take an injection of HGH. The second best time would be first thing in the morning when you wake up.
If you are splitting your doses, two times of the day when your cortisol levels are at peak are when you wake up and in the early afternoon. Another good strategy is to take your HGH injections at these times. Cortisol is very catabolic by nature and a well -timed HGH injection can go a long way toward blunting this effect.
If you are in your late 50ís or beyond, or if for some reason you have a condition that has rendered your pituitary incapable of a normal release of HGH, a great time to take HGH is right before bed. This allows you to closely mimic the natural pattern that would occur if your pituitary were functioning properly. For the rest of us, taking your HGH right before bed is going to end up creating a negative feedback loop, robbing you of your bodyís own nightly pulse of HGH.
Yet another strategy should be considered if you are using insulin with your HGH. Insulin should be used immediately post workout. HGH and insulin do some great things together Ė they shuttle nutrients in a very complimentary way with each other, and the combination of HGH and Insulin create the best environment for IGF-1 production. If you are using insulin immediately post workout, this would be a great time to take a couple of units of HGH.
SIDE EFFECTS Ė HOW TO MANAGE THEM
While HGH for the most part is well tolerated, there are some side effects that can occur. The biggest and most common side effect is bloating and joint pain. The chances of getting these can be minimized or even eliminated by utilizing the ramp up method discussed above.
If you are younger than your late 20ís, it would be very wise to enter an HGH cycle under the guidance of an MD, who can monitor and confirm whether your growth plates have fused. While abnormal bone growth with HGH use is not common, if used at the wrong point in your bodyís development, it could cause disproportionate growth.
If you have a history of cancer or other tumors (at any age), it would be wise to get a complete checkup and be monitored by an MD to make sure that there are no active tumors before your HGH cycle. While HGH (and IGF-1) wonít cause cancer or tumors, they can create an environment that can allow already existing, active tumors to grow at an accelerated rate.
Beyond this, there really isn't anything specific that you would HAVE to take with HGH. There are supplements that you could take for specific conditions that are possible with HGH use. The way people react to HGH is a pretty individual thing. Some people get very little suppression of any kind, others don't see any gains from adding HGH because of significant enough suppression of one kind or another. Here's a general rundown of a few of the bigger ones.
For the slight thyroid suppression that is possible:
conservative - take nothing
moderate - t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin, selinium, zinc, chromium, copper
aggressive - T3 at a dose of 12.5 - 25 mcgs per day
For the insulin resistance that is possible:
conservative - 300mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid and 200 - 300mcgs of Chromium Piccinolate
moderate - 15mg of Actos - a prescription med to increase insulin sensitivity, Glucophage or Metformin to dispose of excess glucose and increase uptake in muscles.
aggressive - add a few IU's of insulin to your HGH cycle
For healthy test levels to best utilize HGH
conservative - do nothing
moderate - use Tongkat or Tribulus
aggressive - add 200-300 milligrams (or more) of testosterone weekly to your HGH cycle
For protection against prostate growth
conservative - do nothing
moderate - use Saw Palmetto (approx 2000mg)
aggressive - use Proscar or equivalent
For those that have a problem with breast tissue growth while on HGH
For those that suffer from this, there is a difference of opinion as to the cause. In the presence of adequate estrogen, HGH can prompt growth or breast tissue. Others theorize that HGH can raise prolactin levels, which can prompt breast growth.
The current consensus seems to be that the best approach for those with this problem is twofold - Take 200mg of B6 (or Bromo if B6 is not sufficient) and also use 20-40mg of Tamoxifen (Nolva) to control this.
Once again, I wouldn't say that all of these are necessary for everyone. I would these supplements as needed to correct whatever conditions that arise with your HGH use. As stated above, reaction to HGH (and just about anything else we use) is very individual.
Hopefully this guide has given you a better understanding of HGH and what it can do for you. HGH, especially when used in conjunction with an AAS cycle, will produce some high-quality, lean mass gains. It can also be used in conjunction with IGF-1 and insulin, which will be the topic of our comparative guide. Happy growing!! [img]file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CJoe%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm l1%5C01%5Cclip_image001.gif[/img]The answer to your every question
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09-23-2005, 11:19 AM #6
Damn, that is some great info there.
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