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  1. #1
    PaulieM.'s Avatar
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    gh morning or night?

    i'm currently taking my 2i.u. injection first thing in the morning. i've also heard of taking it before bed. which is best?

  2. #2
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    For you,and the dose you are running,morning is best.You'll be able to take advantage of your natural HGH pulses during sleep.

    ~Pinnacle~

  3. #3
    supersteve Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    For you,and the dose you are running,morning is best.You'll be able to take advantage of your natural HGH pulses during sleep.

    ~Pinnacle~
    That's not a definite. But yes you're right, taking it in the morning will give him the best chance of salvaging his night pulses.

  4. #4
    hulk100 is offline Junior Member
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    do a search thera are alot of thraeds on the subject

  5. #5
    KEITH187 is offline Junior Member
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    i shoot early morning and at 5pm.it works well for me.

  6. #6
    JAMIE720 is offline Junior Member
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    Depends on your age.Older men,40+ arent gonna have much endo gh pulse so pm shot could be the way to go.For me taking early shots leaves me very sleepy but since i take 2 shots a day I have no choice.

  7. #7
    graeme87 is offline Member
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    I believe night injection will leave you with a higher concentration of GH in system when you are sleeping (when you grow) than morning injections as GH has a short half life of about 4 hours. Although morning injections do not suppress natural GH where as night time injections do I believe it is still best to go with night time injects as you natural GH production is not that big anyway 0.5-1/5 IU a day (especially for the older users)

    Note: If you want to take advantage of your natural GH secretion it is important to consider that your body releases it more like EOD than ED as hooker mentions in his profile of HGH.

    I am currently testing the practical application of this theory now i.e. 5 IU ED injected at night. I am in week 5 of my experiment, I will let you know the results and post a comparison of morning to night time injection.

    There is much speculation over the subject with contradicting evidence fighting for each side so my advice is to research as much as you can and ask the advice of some of the more experienced users.

    Just for the record, morning injections do work well but it is my opinion that night time injections will work better. How much better? I can’t say that yet but either way as long as you run a decent dose for a decent period of time with proper training and diet you should see results.

  8. #8
    SPIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme87
    I believe night injection will leave you with a higher concentration of GH in system when you are sleeping (when you grow) than morning injections as GH has a short half life of about 4 hours. Although morning injections do not suppress natural GH where as night time injections do I believe it is still best to go with night time injects as you natural GH production is not that big anyway 0.5-1/5 IU a day (especially for the older users)

    Note: If you want to take advantage of your natural GH secretion it is important to consider that your body releases it more like EOD than ED as hooker mentions in his profile of HGH.

    I am currently testing the practical application of this theory now i.e. 5 IU ED injected at night. I am in week 5 of my experiment, I will let you know the results and post a comparison of morning to night time injection.

    There is much speculation over the subject with contradicting evidence fighting for each side so my advice is to research as much as you can and ask the advice of some of the more experienced users.

    Just for the record, morning injections do work well but it is my opinion that night time injections will work better. How much better? I can’t say that yet but either way as long as you run a decent dose for a decent period of time with proper training and diet you should see results.

    I'm curious to see the outcome. I have ran GH many of times and have always done AM injections. Primarily due to research and my doctors advice.

    Best of Luck

  9. #9
    graeme87 is offline Member
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    thanks jay i'll let you guys know how it goes

  10. #10
    FranKieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graeme87
    I believe night injection will leave you with a higher concentration of GH in system when you are sleeping (when you grow) than morning injections as GH has a short half life of about 4 hours. Although morning injections do not suppress natural GH where as night time injections do I believe it is still best to go with night time injects as you natural GH production is not that big anyway 0.5-1/5 IU a day (especially for the older users)

    Note: If you want to take advantage of your natural GH secretion it is important to consider that your body releases it more like EOD than ED as hooker mentions in his profile of HGH.

    I am currently testing the practical application of this theory now i.e. 5 IU ED injected at night. I am in week 5 of my experiment, I will let you know the results and post a comparison of morning to night time injection.

    There is much speculation over the subject with contradicting evidence fighting for each side so my advice is to research as much as you can and ask the advice of some of the more experienced users.

    Just for the record, morning injections do work well but it is my opinion that night time injections will work better. How much better? I can’t say that yet but either way as long as you run a decent dose for a decent period of time with proper training and diet you should see results.

    Interesting..

    Our GH spikes are mainly at night so the theory does not sound to bad. Why not just add a little more fuel to what nature has already started and see what happens. I am really interested in seeing what happs with this because from what I have read there have been so many debates over this.

    Good luck.

  11. #11
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    Since eod was mentioned, I'd like to add the study done on eod injections, was done on adolescents, so their growth plates were still open and they were using it for linear growth, not for muscle growth. The study was posted on these boards about a year or more ago, after much discussion, no one decisided to try it, because it didn't apply to what we use it for.

    Now I know a Sis that uses it eod, because she was experiancing bloat form ed shots, it did help her side effects, but we'll never know if she's getting the same results or better cause she never could do ed injection

    JohnnyB

  12. #12
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    my wife is doing ed 1 iu..

    i do 2iu am 2iu pm before 6:00pm...

    works great.. i'm 44 yrs old..
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersteve
    That's not a definite. But yes you're right, taking it in the morning will give him the best chance of salvaging his night pulses.
    I like now you used the word "chance", we don't know what happens when we use it am. We need to remember one thing, it can take up to 20 hours for the liver to convert HGH to IGF-1. IGF-1 will send a negative feedback signal to your HGH pulse, which will stop the HGH pulse. So short of doing a blood test before bed, we don't know if the am injection effects night time HGH pulse or not. If your body does it in 12-14 hours, you're not going to get an HGH pulse, which would mean you'd need a pm injection because of the am injection.

    This is why we all need to find what works for us, there are people that have done am-pm, they found that am-afternoon worked best for them. Others have tried the am-afternoon split, but found am-pm worked best for them. It's hard to say one is better then the other, cause it goes by an individuals results.

    I agree that if you're over 40 and already have low HGH, you need a am-pm split, cause you're not getting much for your natural HGH pulse. But it would still be based on what works best for you, there's "no one size fits all" in this case.

    JohnnyB

  14. #14
    JAMIE720 is offline Junior Member
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    Excellent post,Redbaron hit the nail on the head

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron
    Nothing wrong with your current experiment, but I would like to dispel a couple of thoughts presented here … they are common and widespread, but just not the real case.

    The reason the body produces the largest pulses of HGH at night are because the natural triggers and conditions are amenable to do so. You don't ONLY grow at night ... your body is repairing itself at other times as well. You release HGH at night because the conditions allow you to have a bigger burst at that time. Your body also releases substantial amounts of HGH at other times as well.

    You release HGH in a pulsatile fashion, generally following a circadian rhythm. As mentioned above, a number of stimuli can initiate an HGH secretion, the most powerful being short duration, high intensity exercise and sleep. During the first few hours of sleep (our deep sleep stages), Somatostatin is turned off and GHRH is turned on, resulting in HGH bursts. When you exercise extremely hard in an abbreviated amount of time (think leg day and bombing them over 30-40 minutes), you will spark a HGH release that will rival your night-time release. In my estimation, that is one of the reasons why you don't see any truely spectacular bodybuilders without a nice set of pins.

    We have a number of HGH pulses each day. It is true enough that the total daily amount of HGH released from our pituitary will vary … but we do release HGH each day. Adolescent children when hitting a growth spurt will have a period of 5-7 days where they will have up to 7 daily bursts of 2 IU’s of HGH per burst (~ 14 IU’s total per day). Then they will drop back to having a more normal daily HGH release for a period.

    The point is that HGH works in a cumulative fashion. Whether you take it at night or the morning, as long as you are taking injections of 3IU’s or under at a time, you are going to get your circulating IGF-1 numbers up … and that is going to equate to growth. Whether you take it morning or night, HGH is going to shuttle nutrients to your muscles. Morning or night it will mobilize fat. These are the things HGH does for you, and there is no magic in the fact that the natural triggers dictate a night-time release … and your body DOES release HGH at many other times throughout your day.

    As mentioned in one of the above posts, if you are older and your pituitary has no more desire to release HGH, then certainly taking it at night will match you body’s normal cycle and will help you get a good nights sleep (something that escapes most of us as we age … we sleep much lighter and less). Other than that, HGH is going to work whenever you take it.
    Great post!

  16. #16
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersteve
    That's not a definite. But yes you're right, taking it in the morning will give him the best chance of salvaging his night pulses.
    You should read this study...if I'm reading it correctly,it's saying morning is best for HGH injections.

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/2/601



    ~Pinnacle~

  17. #17
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Also,dans oposted these studies...

    Found something very informative already:

    Quote:
    Recovery of Growth Hormone Release from Suppression by Exogenous Insulin -Like Growth Factor I (IGF-I): Evidence for a Suppressive Action of Free Rather Than Bound IGF-I1
    Ian M. Chapman2, Mark L. Hartman, Karen S. Pieper, Emily H. Skiles, Suzan S. Pezzoli, Raymond L. Hintz and Michael O. Thorner

    Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Medicine (I.M.C., M.L.H., E.H.S., S.S.P., M.O.T.), and Division of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, Department of Health Evaluation Sciences (K.S.P.), University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908; and the Department of Pediatrics, Stanford University Medical Center (R.L.H.), Stanford, California 94305

    Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. Michael O. Thorner, Department of Medicine, Box 466, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908.

    To determine the time course of recovery of GH release from insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) suppression, 11 healthy adults (18–29 yr) received, in randomized order, 4-h iv infusions of recombinant human IGF-I (rhIGF-I; 3 µg/kg·h) or s****e (control) from 25.5–29.5 h of a 47.5-h fast. Serum GH was maximally suppressed within 2 h and remained suppressed for 2 h after the rhIGF-I infusion; during this 4-h period, GH concentrations were approximately 25% of control day levels [median (interquartile range), 1.2 (0.4–4.0) vs. 4.8 (2.8–7.9) µg/L; P < 0.05]. A rebound increase in GH concentrations occurred 5–7 h after the end of rhIGF-I infusion [7.6 (4.6–11.7) vs. 4.3 (2.5–6.0) µg/L; P < 0.05]. Thereafter, serum GH concentrations were similar on both days. Total IGF-I concentrations peaked at the end of the rhIGF-I infusion (432 ± 43 vs. 263 ± 44 µg/L; P < 0.0001) and remained elevated 18 h after the rhIGF-I infusion (360 ± 36 vs. 202 ± 23 µg/L; P = 0.001). Free IGF-I concentrations were approximately 140% above control day values at the end of the infusion (2.1 ± 0.4 vs. 0.88 ± 0.3 µg/L; P = 0.001), but declined to baseline within 2 h after the infusion. The close temporal association between the resolution of GH suppression and the fall of free IGF-I concentrations, and the lack of any association with total IGF-I concentrations suggest that unbound (free), not protein-bound, IGF-I is the major IGF-I component responsible for this suppression. The rebound increase in GH concentrations after the end of rhIGF-I infusion is consistent with cessation of an inhibitory effect of free IGF-I on GH release.


    According to this study, your total IGF-I number may not be an indicator of GH suppression. Only the FREE IGF-1 is responsible for GH suppression.

    More about GH suppression:

    Quote:
    Changes in Free Rather Than Total Insulin-Like Growth Factor-I Enhance Insulin Sensitivity and Suppress Endogenous Peak Growth Hormone (GH) Release following Short-Term Low-Dose GH Administration in Young Healthy Adults
    Kevin Yuen, Jan Frystyk, Margot Umpleby, Linda Fryklund and David Dunger

    Department of Paediatrics (K.Y., D.D.), University of Cambridge, Cambridge CB2 2QQ, United Kingdom; Medical Research Laboratories (J.F.), Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus, Denmark DK-8000; Department of Diabetes and Endocrinology (M.U.), Guy’s King’s and St. Thomas’ School of Medicine, King’s College, London SE1 7EH, United Kingdom; and Pfizer Health AB (L.F.), Stockholm SE-11287, Sweden

    Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Professor David B. Dunger, University Department of Paediatrics, Level 8, Box 116, Addenbrooke’s Hospital, Hills Road, Cambridge CB2 2QQ, United Kingdom. E-mail: dbd25@cam.ac.uk.

    High-dose GH administration is commonly associated with impaired insulin sensitivity (SI) in humans. Paradoxically we have shown that low-dose GH (1.7 µg/kg·d) administration enhances ß-cell function in young healthy adults. In the present double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study, we explored the physiological effects of this low GH dose on glucose metabolism in 12 young healthy adults (seven males, 19–29 yr). At pretreatment and after each 14-d treatment block, overnight metabolic profiles were assessed followed by a hyperinsulinemic euglycemic clamp, whereas fasting blood samples were collected weekly.

    In subjects treated with GH first (group A, n = 6), GH treatment increased total IGF-I (P < 0.05) and IGF binding protein-3 (P < 0.01) after 7 d, but these levels subsequently returned to pretreatment levels after 14 d. In contrast, free IGF-I increased (P < 0.05), and overnight GH pulse peak amplitude decreased (P < 0.01) after 14 d. In subjects treated with placebo first (group B, n = 6), all biochemical parameters were unchanged after placebo treatment, whereas the changes in free and total IGF-I were similar to those of group A after GH treatment. Combined clamp data from both groups A and B (n = 12) showed that 14-d GH treatment decreased overnight plasma insulin levels (P < 0.02) and hepatic glucose appearance (P < 0.05) and increased SI (P < 0.01). Of note, the GH-induced changes in SI positively correlated with the changes in free IGF-I (r = 0.72, P < 0.01).

    In conclusion, low-dose GH administration enhanced SI and suppressed endogenous peak GH release, and we hypothesize that these effects are the direct result of increased serum levels of free IGF-I.

    K.Y. is supported by a research grant from Pfizer Ltd., and J.F. is supported by a grant from the Danish Health Research Council.

    Abbreviations: CV, Coefficient of variation; endoRa, glucose appearance; HOMA, homeostasis model assessment; IGFBP, IGF binding protein; NEFA, nonesterified fatty acid; Rd, glucose disappearance; SI, insulin sensitivity.

    Last edited by dans :

  18. #18
    supersteve Guest
    I spent weeks reading studies and came to no conclusive conclusion. Some say suppression only lasts 4hrs, others say 8hrs, others say it lasts upto 60hrs, some say it doesn't start until 6hrs after injection.
    The truth is, in healthy adults, we really have no idea.

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