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  1. #1
    ODC0717 is offline Anabolic Member
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    Author L. Rea's "Poor Mans IGF-1" opinions

    I was reading Building the Perfect Beast the other day and came upon the point in the book where he talks about using DNP with Insulin (Humulin R) to achieve a sort of "poor man's IGF-1". DNP uncouples a high energy phoshphate molecule from ATP turning it into ADP. The body must step up regulation of ATP and therefor an accelerated metabolic state is entered where signifigant calories are burned. During the accelerated metabolic state and the need to keep up with the demands of ATP production the body will draw mainy from fat stoes provided protein intake is high enough. Basically, he's stating that you can reap the benifits of insulin pertaining to protein and carb storage within a muscle and you can also get the fat burning effects of DNP without compromising theeffects of the insulin... Anyone have thoughts on this line of thinking? All of the scientific jargon has got me on this one.

  2. #2
    ODC0717 is offline Anabolic Member
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    Anyone? BUMP

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODC0717
    I was reading Building the Perfect Beast the other day and came upon the point in the book where he talks about using DNP with Insulin (Humulin R) to achieve a sort of "poor man's IGF-1". DNP uncouples a high energy phoshphate molecule from ATP turning it into ADP. The body must step up regulation of ATP and therefor an accelerated metabolic state is entered where signifigant calories are burned. During the accelerated metabolic state and the need to keep up with the demands of ATP production the body will draw mainy from fat stoes provided protein intake is high enough. Basically, he's stating that you can reap the benifits of insulin pertaining to protein and carb storage within a muscle and you can also get the fat burning effects of DNP without compromising theeffects of the insulin... Anyone have thoughts on this line of thinking? All of the scientific jargon has got me on this one.

    if you run a keto diet and insulin you have to derive energy from fat and from alanine, likewise the body is forced to burn fat for energy, the insulin press for carbs that can be derived from protein (alanine mostly)
    Glycolysis yields 2 ~ P bonds of ATP.
    Gluconeogenesis expends 6 ~ P bonds of ATP and GTP.

  4. #4
    goose is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    if you run a keto diet and insulin you have to derive energy from fat and from alanine, likewise the body is forced to burn fat for energy, the insulin press for carbs that can be derived from protein (alanine mostly)
    Glycolysis yields 2 ~ P bonds of ATP.
    Gluconeogenesis expends 6 ~ P bonds of ATP and GTP.

    Ossie,how do you run your slin? Why do you love it so much?

    goose4......

  5. #5
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    and if you use dnp
    imagine...........

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    Ossie,how do you run your slin? Why do you love it so much?

    goose4......

    10-15 ius bwo or pwo
    and first thing in the morning.

    i am an ectomorph,is very difficult for me obtain muscle, im scarcely over 200 lbs (59) but very very cut, is impressive, when i do diet my cheeks disappears ......lol...... look like muscled corpse.
    Last edited by oswaldosalcedo; 05-27-2006 at 05:16 PM.

  7. #7
    goose is offline Banned
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    muscled corpse,lol.You might run ILK 15,WOW.Have never heard anyone even on this board that used it,I hear it makes LR3 look like baby food.What dose would you run ILK 15?

    goose4....

  8. #8
    ODC0717 is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    and if you use dnp
    imagine...........
    ...Poor mans IGF-1, correct. Do you think the inclusion of T3, say 50 daily, would be too catabolic along with the DNP?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODC0717
    ...Poor mans IGF-1, correct. Do you think the inclusion of T3, say 50 daily, would be too catabolic along with the DNP?

    well............... you can put more test propionate , winstrol and primo and ya !
    slin will counteract that action also.

  10. #10
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    muscled corpse,lol.You might run ILK 15,WOW.Have never heard anyone even on this board that used it,I hear it makes LR3 look like baby food.What dose would you run ILK 15?

    goose4....
    i will, i will.............. the next year,i am doing math. i think at 50 mcg ed.
    but i am reading the studies extrapolating,extrapolating,inferring............

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    muscled corpse,lol.You might run ILK 15,WOW.Have never heard anyone even on this board that used it,I hear it makes LR3 look like baby food.What dose would you run ILK 15?

    goose4....
    muscled skeleton best ! yeah .............lol...........

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    i will, i will.............. the next year,i am doing math. i think at 50 mcg ed.
    but i am reading the studies extrapolating,extrapolating,inferring............
    How many times a day does it need to be shot?

    And at what time ie ; post workout or what?


    Very expensive stuff Ossie....I might have to rob a bank before giving it a whirl...lol...


    ~Pinnacle~

  13. #13
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    i am working, i am working i founded a fitness and bodybuiding mag in my country (now, i am only in 3 states, there is long way to go yet) is the only mag for fitness created in my country.

    but LR3 first, you know for 4-6 lbs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    muscled corpse,lol.You might run ILK 15,WOW.Have never heard anyone even on this board that used it,I hear it makes LR3 look like baby food.What dose would you run ILK 15?

    goose4....

    related info for who wish to know more:

    Trenbol 75 TT


    and:

    Cell Biol Int. 2003;27(10):845-51.

    Interleukin-15 increases myosin accretion in human skeletal myogenic cultures.


    Furmanczyk PS, Quinn LS.

    University of Washington, School of Medicine, Seattle, WA 98195, USA.

    Interleukin-15 (IL-15) has been shown to have anabolic effects on skeletal muscle in rodent studies conducted in vitro and in vivo. The mechanism of IL-15 action on muscle appears to be distinct from that of the well-characterized muscle anabolic factor insulin -like growth factor-I (IGF-I). IL-15 action has not been investigated in a human culture system nor in detail in primary skeletal myogenic cells. The purpose of this study was to compare the effects of IL-15 and IGF-I in primary human skeletal myogenic cells. Accretion of a major myofibrillar protein, myosin heavy chain (MHC), was used as a measure of muscle anabolism. We found that both growth factors induced increases in MHC accretion in primary human skeletal myogenic cultures; however, IL-15 and IGF-I actions were temporally distinct. IL-15 was more effective at stimulating MHC accretion when added to cultures after differentiation of myoblasts had occurred. In contrast, IGF-I was more effective at stimulating MHC accretion when added to cultures prior to differentiation of myoblasts. These results using a human system support recent findings from rodent models which indicate that the primary mode of IGF-I action on skeletal muscle anabolism is through stimulation of myogenic precursor cells, whereas the primary target of IL-15 action is the differentiated muscle fiber. Further, since clinical and experimental studies have shown IGF-I is not effective in preventing skeletal muscle wasting, the distinct mode of action of IL-15 suggests it may be of potential usefulness in the treatment of muscle wasting disorders.


    Endocrinology. 1995 Aug;136(8):3669-72.


    Interleukin-15: a novel anabolic cytokine for skeletal muscle.

    Quinn LS, Haugk KL, Grabstein KH.

    Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, American Lake VA Medical Center, Tacoma, WA 98493, USA.

    Interleukin-15 (IL-15) is a recently discovered growth factor which is highly expressed in skeletal muscle. In order to determine a functional role for IL-15 in skeletal myogenesis, the effects of IL-15 on myoblast proliferation and muscle-specific myosin heavy chain (MHC) expression were analyzed using the mouse C2 skeletal myogenic cell line and primary fetal bovine skeletal myogenic cultures. IL-15 had no effect on [3H]thymidine incorporation, nor on the rate of myoblast differentiation, assessed by anti-MHC immunocytochemical staining, in either type of culture. However, Western blot analyses revealed that IL-15 used at concentrations of 10 or 100 ng/ml increased MHC accumulation five-fold in C2 myoblast cultures and 2.5-fold in primary bovine myogenic cultures. Moreover, C2 myotubes formed in the presence of IL-15 appeared larger than controls. These findings indicate IL-15 can stimulate differentiated myocytes and muscle fibers to accumulate increased amounts of contractile proteins. Well-fused primary bovine myogenic cultures treated with the mitotic inhibitor aphidicolin, then administered IL-15 and/or the anabolic growth factor insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), were analyzed for MHC accumulation using Western blots. IL-15 used at 10 ng/ml doubled MHC accumulation and was as effective as IGF-I used at 10 or 100 ng/ml. IL-15 and IGF-I used together increased MHC accumulation close to five-fold, indicating these two factors can act additively on muscle fibers. These findings indicate IL-15 affects parameters associated with skeletal muscle fiber hypertrophy, and suggest that IL-15 may be a novel anabolic agent to increase skeletal muscle mass.

  15. #15
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    i am working, i am working i founded a fitness and bodybuiding mag in my country (now, i am only in 3 states, there is long way to go yet) is the only mag for fitness created in my country.

    but LR3 first, you know for 4-6 lbs.
    Very Nice!!

    But what about this dose protocol as for when it's shot and at what time frame?




    I'll be scoping out banks on my time off.


    ~Pinnacle~

  16. #16
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    I am studying it !
    and remember there is receptor grade and media grade (ilk 15).

    you know............ there is another form of LR3 that is biotinylated that have reduced binding affinity to the igfbps (is more expensive than receptor grade,around 70 % !!!!!!) less binding affinity than normal LR3.
    I am studying it, also...........
    Last edited by oswaldosalcedo; 11-19-2005 at 03:05 PM.

  17. #17
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    I am studying it !
    and remember there is receptor grade and media grade (ilk 15).

    you know............ there is another form of LR3 that is biotinylated that have reduced binding affinity to the igfbps (is more expensive than receptor grade,around 70 % !!!!!!) less binding affinity than normal LR3.
    I am studying it, also...........
    Media grade at around 3,000.00 for 1 mg.....pricey ...very pricey bro...

  18. #18
    JohnnyB's Avatar
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    Back to the original post

    I wouldn't do anything A.L.R. recommended. I was a mod on a board that gave him his own forum, as vets from our community would ask him question, his pat answer was, you need to read my book. After reading his book many vets had questions about his methods and wanted some explanations to what he had written. The question were straight forward, from Bros that had been around and knew what they were talking about. He avoided to questions for a few weeks, then post that he could no longer be a part of the board because he didn't have time to reply to the questions asked. B.S. he didn't think people would corner him on his whacked out methods, ask real questions and give the reason they didn't agree with him.

    He has slin with no carbs in there, if that's not a recipe for disaster I don't know what is. Oh that's right, the suspension and an amino acid will keep you from going hypo. That was one of the questions asked of him, to explian how the suspension and the amino acid, kept you from going hypo, no reply. That's dangerous, you will write in a book to use slin with no carbs, then when someone asks you to explain it, you avoid answering, that tells me you don't have an answer.

    BTPB is a waste of money, I'm pissed that I even paid 20 bucks for it, everyong one on staff got it at cost, but it was still a waste of good money.

    JohnnyB

  19. #19
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Media grade at around 3,000.00 for 1 mg.....pricey ...very pricey bro...
    $ 3550 receptor grade (Greater than 98.0% as determined by: (a) Analysis by RP-HPLC. (b) Anion-exchange FPLC. (c) Analysis by reducing and non-reducing SDS-PAGE Silver Stained gel)

    LR3 receptor grade cost 1840 euros.
    LR3 biotinylated 3120 euros x 1.2 ($) !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. #20
    JohnnyB's Avatar
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    Hey guys, you really need to start your own thread or communicate through pm. Jacking someones thread isn't very respectful, it's like butting into someones coversation and changing the subject, then not even including the person that was talking in the conversation.

    Think about how you would feel if someone did that to you, I don't think you'd be felling very friendly towards the people that just dised you.

    You guys have been around long enough to know better

    JohnnyB

  21. #21
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    wowwwwwwwww!

  22. #22
    goose is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    wowwwwwwwww!

    Ossie don`t raise your voice,you will get us in trouble,lol.Ossie I`m with you,I`m going to save 4000 and run it next year,it will be so fun.

    goose4....

  23. #23
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    bump

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    10-15 ius bwo or pwo
    and first thing in the morning.

    i am an ectomorph,is very difficult for me obtain muscle, im scarcely over 200 lbs (59) but very very cut, is impressive, when i do diet my cheeks disappears ......lol...... look like muscled corpse.
    i get a impressive pump with slin,I have experienced a lot with it,endured 60 min without carbs or protein (humalog) bwo,iwo,pwo, like you wish.
    soon i will use LR3 and maybe ILK 15 and up the test to 2 gr weekly, to go to 220 lbs. but cut to the bone ! more muscled corpse !
    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    igf....
    waste time.................
    if its a waste of time as you say in another thread then why in this thread do you say you will soon use it ???

  25. #25
    SPIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEVLDOG
    if its a waste of time as you say in another thread then why in this thread do you say you will soon use it ???


    You've got the eye of a Hawk DD...............


    I"m assuming experimentation but I'll wait.............

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhova16
    You've got the eye of a Hawk DD...............


    I"m assuming experimentation but I'll wait.............
    Hey,congrats bro on the promo.!! well deserved

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Media grade at around 3,000.00 for 1 mg.....pricey ...very pricey bro...

    no receptor grade cost over $3000
    i think media grade a bit lower.

  28. #28
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEVLDOG
    if its a waste of time as you say in another thread then why in this thread do you say you will soon use it ???
    wishfull thinking......................

    should read also:


    oswaldo salcedo
    Igf News
    Igf News.

    oswaldo salcedo
    Igf Classes
    Igf Classes

    oswaldo salcedo
    Differences in plasma binding of LR3 and IGF1 (human and others)
    Differences in plasma binding of LR3 and IGF1 (human and others)


    and many more....................................
    Last edited by oswaldosalcedo; 01-24-2006 at 02:14 PM.

  29. #29
    DEVLDOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    igf worthless....................
    yet another..

    just stateing the facts bro..one minute you like the next you dont.

    i read what you posted,good info but anyone can copy and paste.

    im calling you on your direct comments,so which is it? you think its a waste (and why) or are you gonna run it as you posted above (and why)

  30. #30
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    no so fast...........
    copy and paste, before hours and days of research sir
    with scientifical background,objectivity,neutrality and flexibility.

    from slic4788
    after read my post:
    "High Dose Growth Hormone Exerts an Anabolic Effect at Rest and during Exercise in Endurance-Trained Athletes
    M. L. Healy, J. Gibney, D. L. Russell-Jones, C. Pentecost, P. Croos, P. H. Snksen and A. M. Umpleby
    Department of Diabetes and Endocrinology, GKT School of Medicine, St. Thomas Hospital, London, United

    r-hGH-treated

    ------------------ Baseline --------- 1wk-----------4 wk--------- /Placebo-
    IGF-I (nmol/liter) 24.6 3.0 / 89.6 12.21-- 106.3 16.41/ 25.8 2.7-- 25.4 2.7-- 25.2 2.6
    fT3 (pmol/liter) 5.1 0.3 6.0 0.12 6.1 0.22 4.8 0.2 4.9 0.2 4.8 0.1
    fT4 (pmol/liter) 15.5 1.5 11.5 1.02 10.6 0.92 15.8 1.6 15.6 1.7 15.8 1.5
    Testosterone (nmol/liter) 18.3 3.2 18.5 3.4 18.5 3.3 16.7 2.6 16.3 2.6 16.4 2.2
    Glucose (mmol/liter) 4.7 0.3 5.5 0.5 5.3 0.2 4.5 0.4 4.2 0.2 4.4 0.3
    Insulin (mU/liter) 7.9 1.6 22.6 3.92 16.0 9.32 6.0 0.3 5.6 1.9 9.3 2.4
    HOMA IR 1.4 0.2 5.1 1.02 3.3 0.62 1.1 0.4 1.0 0.3 1.6 0.5
    Total cholesterol (mmol/liter) 4.3 0.3 4.0 0.5 4.1 0.3 3.4 0.3 3.3 0.3 3.5 0.6
    Triglyceride 1.1 0.2 2.0 0.5 1.3 0.1 0.6 0.1 0.7 0.1 0.5 0.1
    LDL cholesterol (mmol/liter) 2.6 0.3 2.2 0.3 2.3 0.3 1.6 0.4 1.6 0.3 1.6 0.5
    HDL cholesterol (mmol/liter) 1.2 0.1 1.0 0.1 1.1 0.1 1.5 0.1 1.5 0.1 1.7 0.2
    Body weight (kg) 74.4 1.1 76.5 1.72 77.9 1.62 74.9 3.4 74.9 3.4 74.7 3.3
    Lean body mass (kg) 57.6 1.1 61.0 1.22 61.6 2.5 61.8 2.4
    Total body fat (kg) 11.4 1.4 11.6 1.7 9.8 1.9 10.1 2.0
    Trunk fat (kg) 4.7 0.7 4.5 0.9 2.8 0.9 2.8 0.9

    There was no change in IGF-I levels in the placebo-treated group throughout the observation period. In contrast, in the r-hGH-treated group, IGF-I levels rose markedly, reaching levels outside the physiological range (P < 0.001; Table 2 ). These changes occurred within 7 d of commencing r-hGH administration and did not change further over the remaining 21-d period of r-hGH administration"

    ------------------------------------
    Quote slic4788:
    That's nice nice, I don't know where you pull up all these studies from lol...I never have that kind of luck.
    ------------------------------------

    it is not luck, it is perseverance and intelligence,
    years reading science.

    Quote Originally Posted by DEVLDOG
    just stateing the facts bro..one minute you like the next you dont.

    i read what you posted,good info but anyone can copy and paste.

    im calling you on your direct comments,so which is it? you think its a waste (and why) or are you gonna run it as you posted above (and why)


    -----------------------------------------------
    that way,not anyone.............................

    objective knowledge.
    Last edited by oswaldosalcedo; 01-24-2006 at 02:54 PM.

  31. #31
    DEVLDOG's Avatar
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    and all that means.....what?

    you say worthless and have never even run it on your own account.I say it produces good results and have a thread on this forum run almost 3 months documenting the changes with photos.

    to me thats the real proof in the pudding my man,you can research all you want.but all i know and need to know is it works.
    you keep cutting and pasteing and i'll keep growing.

    just for you bro:
    http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=128570
    Last edited by DEVLDOG; 01-24-2006 at 02:59 PM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEVLDOG
    and all that means.....what?

    you say worthless and have never even run it on your own account.I say it produces good results and have a thread on this forum run almost 3 months documenting the changes with photos.

    to me thats the real proof in the pudding my man,you can research all you want.but all i know and need to know is it works.
    you keep cutting and pasteing and i'll keep growing.

    just for you bro:
    http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=128570

    your opinion is no a scientific fact,is just your opinion like mine.
    and who said:
    have never even run it on your own account
    myself?

    Quote
    oswaldosalcedo
    11-19-2005
    but LR3 first, you know for 4-6 lbs

    (was nope!)


    search when........................
    i said that
    and my experiences are not scientific facts, anyway.

    and you use LR3 alone?
    with wich compounds?

    i have experimented with me anything
    slin test metenolone isotretinoin................

    the sarcasms go to nowhere
    you are no educated.

    just respect my opinion,
    there is speech freedom.

  33. #33
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    [QUOTE=oswaldosalcedo]

    soon i will use LR3 QUOTE]

  34. #34
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    [QUOTE=oswaldosalcedo]
    you are no educated.
    QUOTE]

    hehe

  35. #35
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    Quote
    oswaldosalcedo
    11-19-2005
    just that!

    are you furious ?

  36. #36
    DEVLDOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    Quote
    oswaldosalcedo
    11-19-2005
    just that!

    are you furious ?
    at what...to be honest,I dont understand your post half the time.what I have gotten from you is:

    you claim to have done years of research
    you claim IGF is worthless....(nothing to back this up)
    you state you will soon try it...(but i thought it was worthless)
    you state its good for burning fat...(but you said it is worthless)
    you claim this is now just your opinion...(this one i believe)

    theRes alot of phony people on the net,I believe you to be one of them BUT this is just my opinion..."RESPECT THAT"

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