IGF question for Jhonny B and Pinn

[redmuscle3]

Pinical Sinile Eistein, BELOW copy and past from your post above

" What comes next is the most important part of this entire e-mail. As I
have repeatedly said here and in my earlier e-mail: LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I
IS POTENTIALLY UNSAFE AND SHOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE USED IN HUMANS."

This is your post Einstein...and dont give me this crap that u just posted an email from a third party...u bougth into it line hook and sinker and defended everything it says....

So there r no stinking studies...and all that is a bunch of crap...JUST AS WE ALL SUSPECTED...GLUD U FESSING UP TO IT....

AND YOUR MAMA POTTIED TRAINED YOU WAY TOO EARLY....

[Pinnacle]

Pinical Sinile Eistein, BELOW copy and past from your post above

" What comes next is the most important part of this entire e-mail. As I
have repeatedly said here and in my earlier e-mail: LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I
IS POTENTIALLY UNSAFE AND SHOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE USED IN HUMANS."

This is your post Einstein...and dont give me this crap that u just posted an email from a third party...u boutht into it line hook and sinker and defended everything it says....How did I defend everyting that was sent to me in that e mail?
You really believe I wrote that e mail and posted it?

So there r no sticking studies...and all that is a bunch of crap...JUST AS WE ALL SUSPECTED...GLUD U FESSING UP TO .... You are too much.A real tool if I don't say so myself

AND YOUR MAMA POTTIED TRAINED YOU WAY TOO EARLY....

BTW...

[redmuscle3]

Hey sinile Pinical Einstein, copy and past from your post above :

"What comes next is the most important part of this entire e-mail. As I
have repeatedly said here and in my earlier e-mail: LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I
IS POTENTIALLY UNSAFE AND SHOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE USED IN HUMANS."

The above is your post buddy, and dont give me bs about you just forwarding a 3rd partY email....fact is u bought into it line hook and sinker, and defend everything its says...LIKE IT WAS THE WORD OF GOD OR SOMETHING...

so there r no stinking studies, and all that is just a bunch of crap...just as we all suspected....glad u fessing up to it...

AND YOUR MAMA POTTIE TRAINED YOU WAY TOO SOON BUDDY.....

[powerliftmike]

Muuuuuuhahaha!







This is ridiculuous, Pinn just states what the main manufacturer states about LR3 and so he should be flamed?

[redmuscle3]

Pinical was flaming me for not believing the company with the copy right....he was being flamed for attaching me (becouse i not stupid enouph to believe everything i read) and for defending to the hilt what the selfserving email said...

He was being flamed for attaking GenSci product without proof...and for being foolish enouph to think there is only one world manufacturer of IGF-1 r3...and for believing that only a minute amount is produced such that all the igf-1 r3 on the market is phoney.....

and lets not forget for being stuck up, snotty and rude to my origianal post...its all on the record read it....

[Pinnacle]

Pinical was flaming me for not believing the company with the copy right....he was being flamed for attaching me (becouse i not stupid enouph to believe everything i read) and for defending to the hilt what the selfserving email said...

He was being flamed for attaking GenSci product without proof...and for being foolish enouph to think there is only one world manufacturer of IGF-1 r3...and for believing that only a minute amount is produced such that all the igf-1 r3 on the market is phoney.....

and lets not forget for being stuck up, snotty and rude to my origianal post...its all on the record read it....

Get back to me when you want to attempt an intelligent debate,as of right now your are way to dumb to attempt such a task.Your anger dwarfs the minute amount of intelligence you might possibly process.And in the future,try and use spell check.Even though you are quite illiterate,it might help lend some credence to you rather unintelligent posts.

Good Afternoon

[goose]

Pinical was flaming me for not believing the company with the copy right....he was being flamed for attaching me (becouse i not stupid enouph to believe everything i read) and for defending to the hilt what the selfserving email said...

He was being flamed for attaking GenSci product without proof...and for being foolish enouph to think there is only one world manufacturer of IGF-1 r3...and for believing that only a minute amount is produced such that all the igf-1 r3 on the market is phoney.....

and lets not forget for being stuck up, snotty and rude to my origianal post...its all on the record read it....

[ajfina]

stop the crap guys

[redmuscle3]

There is no such thing as an intelegent debate with you Pinical...this is your idea of an intelegent debate...


although i admit to stuping down to your level...with the name calling, but you know what...the term jackass fits u well Pinn....[ this is the same Pinn that bragged about how good igf was in prior posts right?, but now recants his prior bullshit....oh i mean missguided ideas and beliefs..HOW MANEY MORE MISGUIDED IDEAS DO U HAVE MR. KNOW IT ALL? ]

[SPIKE]

There is no such thing as an intelegent debate with you Pinical...this is your idea of an intelegent debate...

With all the spelling mistakes I could barely understand this. Give up already, there's a lot more to worry about then this thread...........

[AnabolicAndre]

wow, this thread qent from 10 to 100 in one day..

RedMuscle i think you need to go back and understand what everyone has been trying to tell you... PINN posted what GROPEP (the company that holds the patent for lr3) said in an e-mail.

You kneed to read over what has been posted before you start making assertions, and acting like a child will not get you far, nor well liked Here!

Grow up..

[redmuscle3]

I understand that the Einstein PINICAL posted an email form the IGF-1 R3 patent holder, and he holds what it says as bible...

Understand that I find that email suspicious, and not credible as to (1) that there is just one manufacturer of igf-1 r3 and that (2) all the IGF-1 r3 produced worldwide constitutes such a minute amount that all the IGF-1 r3 sold is bogus....THAT IS WHAT THE ARTICAL SAYS...I DONT BELIEVE IT....GOT IT?....Pinical on the other hand attacks anyone who questions the veracity of that self-serving article he vomited on here....and has guys saying they are not going to use IGF no more because of it....

PINICAL REPEATEDLY ATTACHS GENSCI PRODUCTS WITHOUT BASIS (in fact he asserts all igf-1 r3 is bogus)....WITHOUT POSTING ANY STUDY TO SHOW THEY R IN ANYWAY LESS THAN THEY PURPORT TO BE...THIS IS CHEAP BULL SHIT ON HIS PART...

AS TO THE EFFECTIVENESS OF IGF-1 R3 HE ADMITS THERE R NO HUMAN STUDIES...SO ALL THE CRAP IN HIS EMAIL POSTED (ABOUT IT BEING TOXIC TO HUMANS AT SOME UNSPECIFIED LEVEL) IS WITHOUT BASIS.....and clinical studies on rats are the closest we going to get as to its effects on humans....AND THEY SHOW MUSCLE GROWTH.

I don’t believe the facts that email article and pinical assert...not credible to me. And I am sharing this doubt with whoever wants to consider it. I believe there r a number of manufacturers of IGF-1 r3 and more than a minute amount is produced by them (all be it in violation of international copywriter laws - which China and some other countries don’t abide by).


lets not beat a dead horse here...u aren’t going to change my opinion without proof that GenSci IGF is crap...and without human studies to show the rat studies don’t apply to humans....

And I don’t need to grow up buddy,,,not the one who is condescending, stuck up, and full of himself - look at pinicals threads for that OR HAVE U NOT BEEN READING HIS SNOTNOSED THREADS?

[oswaldosalcedo]

I'm on day 15 of 200 mcgs(as you know).I've monitored my BF every 3 days.Zero muscle mass has been added thus far.I've had a reduction in body fat on a non restricted diet.That's it. ...is it worth the price?IMO..NO.
And before the "Are you eating enough protein" brigade comes out.Yes I am.Is 500g every day enough for you protein preachers?

Now to answer TURKs question about shooting 100 mcgs at one time.Yes I have.I've shot 120 mcgs at one time as well.No difference from shooting 80 mcgs.
I also found out splitting the dose throughout the day is a terrible choice(for me anyway).You lean out much more,but just don't have that "full" look about you.
I'm running 100 mcgs 2 hrs before training,and 100 mcgs PWO.I've have that full look constantly now.More so for up to 6 hrs after training.My physique is taking on a nice look.But quite honestly it's nothing I couldn't accomplish with some anabolics and a strict diet.
I'll use IGF again(pre contest).But I won't go over 80 mcgs.I see no need to.You are just pissing money away.I'm seeing virtually no difference at 200 mcgs from that of 100 mcgs.

Ok you hyperplasia guru's.Come on out and attack me.I have some e mails from the bio-tech ppl at gropep I'm holding as my weapon


~Pinnacle~

.....lol............

no pinn, you have to eat a kilo of protein daily....... .lol......

[ajfina]

not sure if u guys know this
Igtropin has split away from GenSci in 2004
and is now independently produced by Igtropin Co.

[redmuscle3]

Well thats great to hear that 100mcg is as good as 200 mcg (at least for Pinnical on those days he believes real IGF exits and is not toxic to humans), would save us all money experimenting if true for most...

Just wanna comment on my understanding as to muscle growth and IGF and HGH...according to what i read IGF and HGH increase the number of stem muscle cells (i.e. baby muscle cells that in time mature into adult muscle cells)....IGF and HGH do not make biger the muscle cells u already have (roids do that)...so that the effects of IGF and HGH are seen months after their use is discontinued....when these muscle stem cells mature...Has anyone noticed this lag effect on muscle growth after IGF or hgh.? I think i have, but its difficult to quantify because of intervining cycles.... Just wondering....

The fat reduction is something more immidiately noticable...and is a key characteristic of both IGF and HGH....and some say what they r best used for...on an immidiate basis...

[Brent_G]

Thanks for the definition of hypertrophy and hyperplasia.

All in all i dont think money to gains ratio is worth it.

Atleast from my experience... i dont have another 23 years to let my new cells grow

[redmuscle3]

Well I am not sure how long it takes stem cells to mature into adult muscle cells, maybe someone here knows for sure...but i dont think it takes years ...i suspect its more like months...

I agree though the usefullness of IGF and HGH is a function of money, what u got and how best to use it....there are Chinese sources that sell IGF at 50 dollars 1 mg (1000mcg) that i found on the net... but I have never used these sources, but at that price it may be worth the risk of trying it...and i probobly will....

[groundandpoundpwr21]

I got a few random things to say.

1-Hasnt igf been around forever why does everyone care so much now. I remember reading about it years and years ago and how it was the blame for everyones extended gut. I think it was in a bill phillips(whoever ran that body make over thing and gave out corvets) book about how it was responsable for all the guts. So why bring it back and why is it blowing up now?

2- Theres a lot of big companys that make gh that we love there products so much and trust them so much, why do we question there igf? Then to get to the bottom if its not igf what is it? If they can make hgh why couldnt they make igf?

3-Why arent the producers or sellers that we know are around and reading this chime in? This isnt the first thread of its kind?

4-Like pinn said its good to see people with no ties opinions. Personally Im going to run some igf my self hopefully soon from a chinese powder source and get blood work done and see what happens. But the time sometime next 2 months I get to do this I will have been juice free for over 9 months and taking igf only at 80mcg. So I can form my own opinion cause you never know till ya did it yourself.

THanks for listiening to me ramble.

[Triposinator]

I'm a bit suprised MR hasn't brought forward the results of an idependent lab test of their LR3 product myself.

This would have several advantages for them.

3-Why arent the producers or sellers that we know are around and reading this chime in? This isnt the first thread of its kind?

[redmuscle3]

I got a few random things to say.

1-Hasnt igf been around forever why does everyone care so much now. I remember reading about it years and years ago and how it was the blame for everyones extended gut. I think it was in a bill phillips(whoever ran that body make over thing and gave out corvets) book about how it was responsable for all the guts. So why bring it back and why is it blowing up now?

2- Theres a lot of big companys that make gh that we love there products so much and trust them so much, why do we question there igf? Then to get to the bottom if its not igf what is it? If they can make hgh why couldnt they make igf?

3-Why arent the producers or sellers that we know are around and reading this chime in? This isnt the first thread of its kind?

4-Like pinn said its good to see people with no ties opinions. Personally Im going to run some igf my self hopefully soon from a chinese powder source and get blood work done and see what happens. But the time sometime next 2 months I get to do this I will have been juice free for over 9 months and taking igf only at 80mcg. So I can form my own opinion cause you never know till ya did it yourself.

THanks for listiening to me ramble.

Well first you are not rambling (although Pinn might dissagree)...those r good questions...here is my take on the answere :

1. IGF-1 has been around a long time, but (1) not IGF-1R3 and (2) not at prices regulare guys can afford...

IGF-1, when it first came out..made HGH look cheep (thats what i remember)...This new varient IGF-1r3 lasts substantially longer, and can be purchased by most guys at prices ranging from 50-250 per 1mg, and is now cheaper to use than HGH....Hence the new interest by a new class of users....but with respect to a new varient of the natural IGF. The fact that its legal and can be purchased with a CC also adds to its wide spread use currently.

2. Established companies that make IGF-1 are not untrusted by reasonable peaple. I said REASONABLE PEAPLE, ie not PIN.


The Patent holder is trying to stop the Chinese from taking over vertually the entire market for IGF-1 r3, by espossing all IGF-1 is crap except for its own. Thats obviouse to me.

CHINA does not abide by international copywright laws...under Chines law I believe its companies are free to manufacture IGF-1 without having to pay royalities to the international Patent holder...This pisses the patent holder off...and the patent holder is behind the BS (that gullible guys like PIN believe) that all Chinese stuff is crap...regardless of how reputable the manufacturer is.....the Chinese stuff is damn cheap, damn good - and cuts in on their profits -ouchies!!!

3. The Chines producers like GenSci - are ligitimate, have international subs and web cites...and remember GenSci is a HUGE company listed in the Chinese stock exchanges and in the European exchanges I believe and IGF-1 r3 is just one little product it manufactures out of thousands....ITS NOT THAT MATERIAL TO ITS OVERALL OPERATIONS....

When u buy GenSci stuff it tells u in small print details - what it does, what its used for, how much to take...HOW THEY MADE IT (through recombinent RNA). etc...well at least the instructions i got with my GenSci HGH did...and I am sure its IGF does too...it is liable for those clinical assertions in countries it ligitimately sells that product...Eastern Europe, China, etc...

This BS bought into by PINN and his cronies above - is not really credible for one, CONSIDER ITS SOURCE, HAS NO CLINICAL TRIALS TO BACK IT UP and has not cut into their (Chinese) businesses - thats one reason why the Chinese dont do nothing. .

Also GenSci (etc) is a ligitimate company and the concerns voiced above are illigitimate concerns (by peaple using IGF for illegal non medical purposes ....if GenSci where to actively go after an illegal market - it would look real bad and cheesy - and compromise its other business).

Having an MBA this is kinda self evedent to me...its all about money, profit and market share - wake up and smell the green stuff....

4. PINN obviously has some ties to the patent holder...he corrisponds with them by email how maney of us do that? ...their is something there going on between PINN and the Patent holder...a bit too chumsy for my tast... and he hates all things Chineses apparently....looks like...

Thats my two cents on your questions...

Well i dont have time to edit the above, or to spell check (will do that latter) for now i think anyone with a half decent intent can make out what this poor immigrant boy has to say....

[ajfina]

I'm a bit suprised MR hasn't brought forward the results of an idependent lab test of their LR3 product myself.

This would have several advantages for them.

Im wondering why?

[AnabolicAndre]

Redmuscle I understood what you are trying to say! But WHY ARE YOU SO POOR WITH SPELLING?

Someone gave you an MBA?

[oswaldosalcedo]

Well, it's a research chem that we took upon ourselves to try out. With no human studies and only feedback from other users, it's difficult to tell what exactly is going to happen. After reading everyones opinions it seems quite unanimous. That's why these boards are of such great importance. It allows us to view results of people all around the world. What is better then that!?!!?!?!

If and when I use LR3 again it will either be pre-contest of PCT only. With no ability to give me strength, size or stamina I dont see much use for it. I do have to say that It worked very well in PCT. Really helped me maintain most of my gains. As for the reduction in BF%, that can easily be accomplished naturally and much cheaper................



R-IL-15 anyone?

it should be bogus too,like LR3.............

[Triposinator]

Why? What do you mean?
- Why would it be advantageous for them to prove the
content of their product?

or

- Why haven't they?

Im wondering why?

[SPIKE]

it should be bogus too,like LR3.............

At least someone totally understood why I wrote that.

[oswaldosalcedo]

LR3 sold out from gropep,asfbio,prospec is bogus
is effective ,who know?
have to be buyed from gropep.

[Triposinator]

Someone gave you an MBA?

[IBdmfkr]

Why? What do you mean?
- Why would it be advantageous for them to prove the
content of their product?

or

- Why haven't they?

Obviously they can't prove sht, seeing as there are No lab reports that I have seen proving otherwise.

[ajfina]

Why? What do you mean?
- Why would it be advantageous for them to prove the
content of their product?

or

- Why haven't they?

yes Why haven't they?
we r waiting for something MR? or omega?

[redmuscle3]

Not a native american smattry school marms - LIKE I SAID BEFORE YOU KNOW WHAT U CAN DO WITH THAT RED SCHOOL MARM PENCIL - Einstein the real one, could not spell worth a shit...nor could Edison.. or Bell..etc....iT DONT MEAN SHIT - OHHH EXCEPT IF U CAN...THEN ITS CITED AS PROOF THAT U ARE BETTER --- YEA RIGHT...DREAM ON ENGLISH MAJORS WITH CRAPY LOW PAYING JOBS....

yEA I HAVE AN MBA FROM A MAJOR SCHOOL AND GRADUATED WITH HONORS...THEY CARED IF I HAD BUINESS SENSE OR NOT....SPELLING WE HAVE SECRITARIES THAT GET PAID 20 DOLLARS AN HOUR TO CORRECT MINE AND MY LESS THAN PERFECT ENGLISH GRAMMER TOO....I GET PAID A HELL OF A LOT MORE FOR WHAT I DO...

AND IN GRAD SCHOOL I JUST HIRED SOMEONE AT 4 DOLLARS AN HOURS TO CORRECT MY SPELLING AND GRAMMER....ENGLISH MAJORS DONT GET PAID MUCH....THE ABILITY TO SPELL IS A DINE A DOZEN AND CARIES LITLE VALUE UNLESS U ARE APPLYING TO BE A SECRITARY OR CLERK MAYBE....AND I HAD OTHER AMBITIONS THAN TO BE A SECRITARY....

THE ABILITY TO REASON PROPERLY, AND MAKE SOUND DECISIONS - THATS NOT A DIME A DOZEN....AND THATS WHAT I DO....

AND I WAS PREMED UNDERGRAD - NOT AN ENGLISH MAJOR, AND NOBODY GAVE A SHIT ABOUT SPELLING IN THE SCIENCES....WE WERE NOT STUDYING TO BE SECRETARIES, AND CLERKS...AND AT THE MBA LEVEL THERE R MANY FOREIGNERS WHO CANT SPELL WORTH A SHIT TOO...SO NOBODY GAVE A SHIT THERE EITHER....JUST HAD TO HIRE A SECRITARY OR ENGLISH MAJOR TO TYPE MY PAPERS IS ALL...AND THEY WERE EASY AND CHEAP TO GET...

LOOL TAKE THIS ANYWAY U WANT - BUT ONLY SOMEONE WITH A PETTY, AND I MEAN PETTY - AS IN SMALL - MIND IS GONNA MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF SOMEONE'S SPELLING ON HERE....

I'M CERTAINLY NOT GONNA INVEST SUBSTANTIAL TIME CORRECTING MY SPELLING HERE,, AND THE SPELL CHECKER ON HERE SUCKS BTW....

[redmuscle3]

I Understand Why We All Would Like Omega's Or Mr's Or Jentropins For That Matter Igf-1 To Be Tested.....

But it is obserd ask Omega or MR etc...to Test Their Own Product....what do you supose is the likelyhood that theri self test would show The product Is Bogus....? Ohhhhhh I Am Taking A Wild Guess Here, But I Would Say It Would Be Remote...not A Sound Business Decision

No What We Want...is An Independent 3rd Party Lab To Do The Testing..we Buy The Stuff And Send It To The Lab.....if Anyone Finds One...i Will Be Glad To Donate To The Couse To Pay For That Testing...if We Ban Together It Wont Be That Expensive...if Such A Lab Can Be Found..

[Pinnacle]

4. PINN obviously has some ties to the patent holder...he corrisponds with them by email how maney of us do that? ...their is something there going on between PINN and the Patent holder...a bit too chumsy for my tast... and he hates all things Chineses apparently....looks like...

.

Anyone can contact Gropep just as I have done.I was simply in search of answers in regards to LR3 as many other people are as well.
Your continuing accusations/attacks on me won't be tolerated any further.I was simply throwing ideas out there for discussion.That's it,nothing more.

Chose your words wisely in the future and be careful of accusations you make upon people.You see where I'm going with this?

Tread litely....

~Pinnacle~

[redmuscle3]

I will question what ever i want dumn shitt...

..YOUR RELATIONS WITH THE PATENT HOLDER ARE SUBJECT TO QUESTIONS AND I AM RAISING THEM..YOU BOUGHT INTO THAT CRAP WAY TOO EASILY.....and THAT IS RIGHT I DONT TRUST YOU.

INDEPENTENT? ..what are your relations with the patent holder? HAVE U EVER HAD A BUSINESS INTEREST IN THEIR PRODUCT?

So what is the email address for the patent holder so we all can corrispond with them? and maybe get those studies tht they cite....

And dont threaten me jackass...GET WHERE I AM GOING....

What is this the new improved PIN? WHAT NO NAME CALLING?, NO INSULTS?, NO SNOTTY UPPITY COMMITS? NO **** U ICONS? JUST THREATS?!!!!!! ----

OHHHHH I AM SOOOOOOO SCARED......U STARTED THIS NASTY CRAP WITH ME - MR. SNOT NOSE - U JUST CANT CALL IT OFF...IF U WANT TO OPPLOGIZE YOU MAY - BUT UNTILL THEN U ARE JUST A SNOT NOSED ASS TO ME AND I SUJEST U AVOID MY POSTS COUSE I WONT HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT U ...AND YES I FIND YOUR COMMENTS SUSPCIOUS AS TO UNDERLYING MOTIVES.....I NOT GONNA HIDE THAT...HERE OR ANYWHERE. GOT IT?

[Pinnacle]

I will question what ever i want dumn shitt...

..YOUR RELATIONS WITH THE PATENT HOLDER ARE SUBJECT TO QUESTIONS AND I AM RAISING THEM..YOU BOUGHT INTO THAT CRAP WAY TOO EASILY.....and THAT IS RIGHT I DONT TRUST YOU.

INDEPENTENT? ..what are your relations with the patent holder? HAVE U EVER HAD A BUSINESS INTEREST IN THEIR PRODUCT?

So what is the email address for the patent holder so we all can corrispond with them? and maybe get those studies tht they cite....

And dont threaten me jackass...GET WHERE I AM GOING....

www.gropep.com

No threat what so ever.I'm merely making a statement.This will be my last correspondence with you.Personal attacks on this board are not tolerated.It's quite obvious you've breached this rule already.Care to continue your attacks on me?Slander..Make unfounded accusations?
It's not like you contribute to the board,but have chosen to make personal attacks on me soley.

Can't say it was nice knowing you.

Good day..


~Pinnacle~

[redmuscle3]

Ohhh Now There Is A New New Pin Who Is Sensative!!!!....."i Cant Say Its Nice Knowing You" .....

i SAID EMAIL ADDRESS not Web Page...i could of just used a search engin to find the home page of that company...you have that email or not?

You Dont Know Me From Adam Got It?....yet U Judged Me...and Were Snooty And Condesending Twords Me And My Posts Which Were Well Founded - And U really Dont Know Shit...none of us do !!, we all have more questions than answers here especially about ifg-1 r3 and hgh...the problems with you is u think u actually know it all and the have THE ANSWEREs...and are snotty and condesending about it..you dont have THE ANSWER ...COME TO GRIPS WITH THAT...

I Dont Know U From Adam....i Dont Wanna Know You From Adam....you Are Just A Snot Nosed Know It All That Dont Know Shitt to me.....get Off Your High And Mighty Horse U Dont Belong There. None of us belong there.

[rodge]

i asked earlyer to keep this a decent thread but since this is getting more and more out of hand i'm putting a lock on it.

-rodge

[SwoleCat]

I also believe redmuscle or deadmuscle/no hustle, whatever, needs a vacation for deliberately showing NO respect towards our Vets and team members here.

Don't forget your sunscreen bee-yatch.

~SC~