Unless your a pro, or are trying to go pro, HGH is too much $$ to justify using

[stayinstacked]

It's just too expensive to be running unless your trying to get to the top in this sport. It's been a huge hype in the past year or so, but even running at least 4-6iu/day I cannot justify its cost. And 2iu/day is wasting your time period. I cant say that it wont do anything for you as far as leaner gains and all, but you could get the same effects for fat burning w/ clen at a fraction of the cost. I told myself that I would give it a fair chance, it's been almost 4 months now, the only thing its really done for me is given me the opportunity to be bigger and not so fat on more calories/day, and cheat meals dont seem to hurt much either. But I do not look much different than I would have w/out it at all. My freind tells me to stick it out, its just starting to kick now and I wont be dissapointed these next couple months. But for the cost of this stuff, its just not worth it unless you have the kind of money to be dropping thousands like nothing.

[SPIKE]

Thanks for venting, I like to do that sometimes as well SS. Seems like you're at a mark where you're starting to realize that GH is not a wonder drug. For some reason some think that it will pack lbs. and lbs. of LBM on you. Sure with the addition of AAS its unstoppable. Are you using it synergistically with AAS or alone?????

As far as the topic of GH and it's financial value will vary from person to person. There are some that grab their ankles and pay $5 an IU. Then there are people that get kits for under $200 . So to some its completely worth it.
Many have gotten on my case about the use of GH and my age. But when I"m on GH I feel better, sleep better and have a better overall appearance. Not to mention how it aids in several different ways with training. I"ve been off for a couple of months and am gettign back on next month for 8 months at 4iu 5/2.

to sum up my personal experience I like it and am obviously using it again. No doubt in my mind that AAS will pack on waaaaaaaaaay more LBM then GH. It's all oriented around ones goal(s) and preferences. Hope this helps a little. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhso nice to vent...........

[catabolic kid]

Thanks for venting, I like to do that sometimes as well SS. Seems like you're at a mark where you're starting to realize that GH is not a wonder drug. For some reason some think that it will pack lbs. and lbs. of LBM on you. Sure with the addition of AAS its unstoppable. Are you using it synergistically with AAS or alone?????

As far as the topic of GH and it's financial value will vary from person to person. There are some that grab their ankles and pay $5 an IU. Then there are people that get kits for under $200 . So to some its completely worth it.
Many have gotten on my case about the use of GH and my age. But when I"m on GH I feel better, sleep better and have a better overall appearance. Not to mention how it aids in several different ways with training. I"ve been off for a couple of months and am gettign back on next month for 8 months at 4iu 5/2.

to sum up my personal experience I like it and am obviously using it again. No doubt in my mind that AAS will pack on waaaaaaaaaay more LBM then GH. It's all oriented around ones goal(s) and preferences. Hope this helps a little. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhso nice to vent...........

1.1$ per iu

[SPIKE]

1.1$ per iu

Jin or generic? Not trying to get off topic so hit me with a PM or post it. This is a good thread and I dont want to clutter it with nonsense........

[goose]

HGH and it`s problem`s, however since there are still some who argue that HGH offers nothing to athletes? There are, by all means, several who have tried HGH and who were sadly disappointed by its results. However, as with many things in life, there is a logical explanation or perhaps even more than one: 1. The athlete simply has not taken a sufficient amount of HGH regularly and over a long enough period of time. HGH is a very expensive compound and an effective dosage is unaffordable by most people. 2. When using HGH the body also needs more thyroid hormones,insulin, corticosteroids, gonadotropins, estrogens and what a surprise androgens and anabolics. This is also the reason why HGH, when taken alone,not saying your taking it alone ,is considerably less effective and can only reach its optimum effect by the additive intake of steroids, thyorid hormones, and insulin, in particular. I must point out in this case that HGH has a predominantly anabolic effect,which I love to abuse,it has helped me produce Fantastic results,as I feel this is the beginning with my discoveries with HGH,I`m in love with it.

goose4..

[SPIKE]

The athlete simply has not taken a sufficient amount of HGH regularly and over a long enough period of time.

Typically this is the statement that will answer most peoples questions on why they didn't like it Goose. Let's all agree on something, 5iu ED 6/1 for 6 months is a nice dose correct? Ok, at that dose one would need 700iu's!!!!! Not too many people we see picking up 7 Jin kits at a time now do we??? I for one just jumped off the Serono Bandwagon to give Jin a try. Picked up 8 kits to run 4iu 5/2 for 8 months. No one said this was cheap so if you're going to do it you need to do it right. If not then drop a G on a 3 month AAS cycle and call it a day.

GH is neither for the novice nor financially challenged................

[kaorialfred]

I asked this in the longevity forum:
HGH a necesity?
Being as how some here always seem to get GH and test as a HRT/TRT therapy. Are you asking the Dr. if you need GH? I mean we know that men can't really be men with low test. But with GH how is it medically nescesary and do you ask your Dr.? How low is low on a IGF bloodwork. Also if your levels are low do you ever ask why? 2 iu is the standard HGH they say protocol. Why wouldn't a Dr. give you lets say 4iu. I had asked a Dr. this and he wouldn't give me an answer. So he got kicked to the curb. I felt he was being shady. Most of the HRT clinics make their bread off you guys that want HGH, I mean I haen't been through an endocriologist protocols in a while but I know they do more testing and have a better hold of the whole system. Why wouldn't you go to an Endocrinologist for GH testing or consultation?

I had a friend who was told by a Dr. over the phone without even looking at him that his weight gain was from low IGF levels and GH would help him. So the guy is in the system, they never gave him test just HCG. He works out and eats good. The guy hasn't really changed that much in a year. No remarkable LBM or gains in strengh. So he's telling me that GH isn't even needed to live a normal heathy life. Like the Dr. at the clinic claimed. That the snakeoil sales man got him. And got him good.. BTW he was on regulated meals and had a personal trainer for year. I saw him in the gym and he was always tearing it up with his trainer. And also with his son. He competed in Tri-athlons also during the year. I thought he looked good for an older guy. Never knew he was on a therapy plan either, he just confided in me recently. He's like so embarrassed he wasted money on a clinic. Now he's worried he may have actually damaged his natural IGF levels by being on for so long. He's off the GH now btw.

Anybody experince this, know someone like this. Do you ask yourself is GH a life threating drug that I can't live without?


The reason I asked is that I myself feel like Jay on this. I was on for about 6 months on 2 iu then worked up to 4 IU before I ran out of insurance in September. Now I'm trying to get new insurnace to cover the cost.
It's expensive and some just don't react to it. Then you have to ask yourself what excactly are you looking for the GH to do for you. I myself had low levels and was excited I could get a script but then I'm waiting on the insurnace company and I'm saying even though I know I feel better on 4 IU, because at 2 I didnt' feel a thing. I sleep a whole lot better. I actually have better workouts. Even my wife can't irk me In the end do the means justify the cost? Also I'm married to an accountant, so she flipped at the price. But hey if insurace covers it then we will get along just fine again.
So while some are looking to acheive a certain look, I look at it as a necestiy for me. But its not a life threating drug. In the back of my mind I want the LBM more that the sleep and mood. Which could be obtained cheaper and quicker with some tren or clen.
I do know that when I was walking and dieting down the gh made a huge diffrence.
But I don't think its worth the money unless you can get it dirt cheap and its reliable quality.

[goose]

I wish I listed to pinn and marcus earlier,rest ,yet an aggressive approach is needed,I am more open minded.Pinn was right from the beginning.

goose4..

[powerliftmike]

I wish I listed to pinn and marcus earlier,rest ,yet an aggressive approach is needed,I am more open minded.Pinn was right from the beginning.

goose4..

Pinn is always right

[goose]

Pinn is always right

I hope he does not see this,I will try and get a mod to remove your post.


goose4..

[Pinnacle]

I wish I listed to pinn and marcus earlier,rest ,yet an aggressive approach is needed,I am more open minded.Pinn was right from the beginning.

goose4..

You want to see your physique transform into that "quality" look?You need to run an aggressive dose to achieve that.Ppl say OMG 10-15 iu's?My head will look like frankenstein...mmmkkk sure pal.
Another good example is winstrol.Run 50 mgs ED of winny and you'll get very meager results.BUT run 150 mgs ED and you'll see your physique take on a quality look you wouldn't think you'd be able to achieve running a mild androgen like winny.

For you young guys out there.Please don't buy into the over 30 nonsense.You can get wonderful results running HGH,but you need to run the proper dose though.If you are considering running 5-6 iu's then I'd say it's a waste(except for fat loss and a few other things like increased recovery).I know several younger guys(mid 20's) that run higher dose HGH and have taken on a physique they wouldn't have had otherwise without HGH.I see these guys on a daily basis in my gym.I've watched their transformation first hand.IMPRESSIVE!!

~Pinnacle~

[goose]

You want to see your physique transform into that "quality" look?You need to run an aggressive dose to achieve that.Ppl say OMG 10-15 iu's?My head will look like frankenstein...mmmkkk sure pal.
Another good example is winstrol.Run 50 mgs ED of winny and you'll get very meager results.BUT run 150 mgs ED and you'll see your physique take on a quality look you wouldn't think you'd be able to achieve running a mild androgen like winny.

For you young guys out there.Please don't buy into the over 30 nonsense.You can get wonderful results running HGH,but you need to run the proper dose though.If you are considering running 5-6 iu's then I'd say it's a waste(except for fat loss and a few other things like increased recovery).I know several younger guys(mid 20's) that run higher dose HGH and have taken on a physique they wouldn't have had otherwise without HGH.I see these guys on a daily basis in my gym.I've watched their transformation first hand.IMPRESSIVE!!

~Pinnacle~

Good post pinn,I would just like to expand a few points.Many people never benefit or realaize the potential of an anabolic,I was a guy who ran HGH at 4-6iu,a dose mainly associated with fat loss,I don`t believe in HGH and IGF used for fat loss,I liked the results,but nothing next to gains I`m getting now from HGH,my physique is evolving to the next level with the desired dose corresponding to my true goals.
Fantastic point about winny,at a decent dose it`s a true muscle builder,a pure anabolic.I've often made that same point, but it's amazing how many people don't "get" it. The weaker drugs, like Winstrol and primo, build the most muscle.Winstrol is a very potent tissue-building drug in the truest sense!
This is why I`m running primo at 3g at the moment,people think it`s weak because it doesn't produce water weight,, when it's actually very strong.People should be using the finer, sophisticated drugs like Primo and Winstrol, not cypionates and the veterinarian products. It's so absurd!


goose4..

[Herbster]

Good post pinn,I would just like to expand a few points.Many people never benefit or realaize the potential of an anabolic,I was a guy who ran HGH at 4-6iu,a dose mainly associated with fat loss,I don`t believe in HGH and IGF used for fat loss,I liked the results,but nothing next to gains I`m getting now from HGH,my physique is evolving to the next level with the desired dose corresponding to my true goals.
Fantastic point about winny,at a decent dose it`s a true muscle builder,a pure anabolic.I've often made that same point, but it's amazing how many people don't "get" it. The weaker drugs, like Winstrol and primo, build the most muscle.Winstrol is a very potent tissue-building drug in the truest sense!
This is why I`m running primo at 3g at the moment,people think it`s weak because it doesn't produce water weight,, when it's actually very strong.People should be using the finer, sophisticated drugs like Primo and Winstrol, not cypionates and the veterinarian products. It's so absurd!


goose4..

3g of primo.
Jesus, have you won the lottery.

[kaorialfred]

You want to see your physique transform into that "quality" look?You need to run an aggressive dose to achieve that.Ppl say OMG 10-15 iu's?My head will look like frankenstein...mmmkkk sure pal.
Another good example is winstrol.Run 50 mgs ED of winny and you'll get very meager results.BUT run 150 mgs ED and you'll see your physique take on a quality look you wouldn't think you'd be able to achieve running a mild androgen like winny.

For you young guys out there.Please don't buy into the over 30 nonsense.You can get wonderful results running HGH,but you need to run the proper dose though.If you are considering running 5-6 iu's then I'd say it's a waste(except for fat loss and a few other things like increased recovery).I know several younger guys(mid 20's) that run higher dose HGH and have taken on a physique they wouldn't have had otherwise without HGH.I see these guys on a daily basis in my gym.I've watched their transformation first hand.IMPRESSIVE!!

~Pinnacle~

Hey Pinn are you saying 10-15 ius is what these guys were doing? Also were they running any other compounds?

[Pinnacle]

Hey Pinn are you saying 10-15 ius is what these guys were doing? Also were they running any other compounds?

Not "were"..they(myself as well) ARE running doses like this.And yes,anabolics certainly come into play in the over all scenario You also have to keep in mind guys that run these type doses have very aggressive goals in mind.90% of them/us compete..it's not like it's being done just to have a better physique so you look good on the beach at spring break.


~Pinnacle~

[HGH4life]

You want to see your physique transform into that "quality" look?You need to run an aggressive dose to achieve that.Ppl say OMG 10-15 iu's?My head will look like frankenstein...mmmkkk sure pal.
Another good example is winstrol.Run 50 mgs ED of winny and you'll get very meager results.BUT run 150 mgs ED and you'll see your physique take on a quality look you wouldn't think you'd be able to achieve running a mild androgen like winny.

For you young guys out there.Please don't buy into the over 30 nonsense.You can get wonderful results running HGH,but you need to run the proper dose though.If you are considering running 5-6 iu's then I'd say it's a waste(except for fat loss and a few other things like increased recovery).I know several younger guys(mid 20's) that run higher dose HGH and have taken on a physique they wouldn't have had otherwise without HGH.I see these guys on a daily basis in my gym.I've watched their transformation first hand.IMPRESSIVE!!

~Pinnacle~

--
--Right direction for sure, I just started 10ius ed 5on 2off about 2 weeks ago and can already tell a change from my previous 5month run of GH @5iu ed
5on 2off. I am definatly going to be running a higher dosage for a while. Also feel beeter during the day and sleeping very good, I am 27 BTW. I also see and know guys in the gym first hand that live by this stuff and one in particular is a few yrs younger than me and he went from 140 to a 190lb beast in almost a year.

[kaorialfred]

--
--Right direction for sure, I just started 10ius ed 5on 2off about 2 weeks ago and can already tell a change from my previous 5month run of GH @5iu ed
5on 2off. I am definatly going to be running a higher dosage for a while. Also feel beeter during the day and sleeping very good, I am 27 BTW. I also see and know guys in the gym first hand that live by this stuff and one in particular is a few yrs younger than me and he went from 140 to a 190lb beast in almost a year.

that's cool, what else was that guy running?
how are your sides at that amount and what are you running with it. How long are you planning on running 10 IU? Taking any pictures?

[Mealticket]

isn't affordabilty relative to the individual? What if i'm bringing in 100K a year. How much is $2,000 worth of gh really gonna hurt my bank roll. None!

[stayinstacked]

isn't affordabilty relative to the individual? What if i'm bringing in 100K a year. How much is $2,000 worth of gh really gonna hurt my bank roll. None!

I bring in close to that now, its a whole different ball game when you have others besides yourself to provide for as well. 100 g's isnt shit anymore(no offense to you)

[SPIKE]

These last 2 comments are completely irrelevant to the topic of discussion. I know what you're saying about money .vs. effectivness b/c the title is touching briefly on that. But overall the worth of GH based on the individual is completely worth it. Like I said, BASED ON THE INDIVIDUAL..............

[justtrnd40]

It's just too expensive to be running unless your trying to get to the top in this sport. It's been a huge hype in the past year or so, but even running at least 4-6iu/day I cannot justify its cost. And 2iu/day is wasting your time period. I cant say that it wont do anything for you as far as leaner gains and all, but you could get the same effects for fat burning w/ clen at a fraction of the cost. I told myself that I would give it a fair chance, it's been almost 4 months now, the only thing its really done for me is given me the opportunity to be bigger and not so fat on more calories/day, and cheat meals dont seem to hurt much either. But I do not look much different than I would have w/out it at all. My freind tells me to stick it out, its just starting to kick now and I wont be dissapointed these next couple months. But for the cost of this stuff, its just not worth it unless you have the kind of money to be dropping thousands like nothing.

You are young. Wait until you are 40 then see how it makes you feel. For me the cost is not that bad and the results I get I like. When I was your age I didn't dream that I would have the little problems here and there with aches,pains, low energy, low sex drive etc. The gh has helped me alot. A low dose of test and gh can work wonders.

[oswaldosalcedo]

You are young. Wait until you are 40 then see how it makes you feel. For me the cost is not that bad and the results I get I like. When I was your age I didn't dream that I would have the little problems here and there with aches,pains, low energy, low sex drive etc. The gh has helped me alot. A low dose of test and gh can work wonders.

we are talking about muscle growth or fat loss
not psychological states or perfomance.............................

[Bigun]

we are talking about muscle growth or fat loss
not psychological states or perfomance.............................

Maybe not, but if you have aches, pains and low energy then you are not likely to make that much gains in terms of muscle growth or fat loss so there is relevance to 40's comments

[justtrnd40]

we are talking about muscle growth or fat loss
not psychological states or perfomance.............................

I was just going by what he said about 2iu being a waste of money. I have been running that for over 3mos and its definately not a waste of money. GH is not any different that expecting to gain 20lbs of solid muscle on a good cycle of AS only. I believe you can get good results supplementing the gh just like you do with AS. If we are just talking about muscle growth I think it is a no brainer that gh alone is not going to yield the results that most people expect. Now doing a good solid cycle with proper diet and mucho calories and intensive training will transform a body to make about anybody happy. So compared to what it would cost to do a productive cycle to what it would cost to try to achieve the same effect with gh, then gh is a waste of money. Neither one are miracle makers.

[juicy_brucy]

It's just too expensive to be running unless your trying to get to the top in this sport.

I can afford it, just not intrested in it. GH is not for me, I have seen what it has done to my trainer...

[SPIKE]

I have seen what it has done to my trainer...

What may I ask that is?

[j martini]

I think the problem is also that people expect to much from GH, they think it is some majic drug that will fix all genetic deficiencies.

I think this stems from the fact that pro bodybuilders where amongst the first to use it as it was expensive and they where the only ones able to afford it, this brought about the belief among amateurs that GH was awonder drug and thats why the pros where so much betterthan they where when in realiity it was down more to genetic gifts and the extreme dedication of the pros.

Bodybulders awways find it hard to admit that there genetics will not allow them to look like someone else, so will convince themselve that that person knows something are is doing something that they know nothing about.

GH is an effective drug when used at a high enough dose for long enough,and combined with other drugs eg AAS, insulin, t3. But it will not work miracles are cure genetic shortcomings.

[JohnnyB]

HGH isn't the holy grail of BBing, you get the best result when it's stacked with slin and the increase of results of from the slin. I've seen more then one person say that for the money slin without the HGH is a better investment.

If you're under 30 or 35 I would waste my money on HGH

JohnnyB

[oswaldosalcedo]

HGH isn't the holy grail of BBing, you get the best result when it's stacked with slin and the increase of results of from the slin. I've seen more then one person say that for the money slin without the HGH is a better investment.

If you're under 30 or 35 I would waste my money on HGH

JohnnyB

i agree

[HGH4life]

i'm 27 nd run several cycles of Test,Deca, Tren, D-bol Anadrol 50, Igh lr3, HGH, SLIN. Fina, and a few more i cant think of o=ff the top off my head and i think that 6-8months on GH defanatly helps u keep your gains and reduce fat.
-Personally i'v done about 700 ius at 5ius a day. I just started 10ius 4on/4off
now when i come off my aas cycle the Gh really helps me keep my gains.
My buddy used d-bols and Test and gain about 25pounds in 8weeks When he come off he lost over 20lbs, I was on a little heavier stack and when I came off about the same time and still used the gh at 5ius a da 5on 2off then. I only lost 8 of my 21pounds gainedin 10 weeks????
- As far as the money if u cant afford at least a year at 5ius for 5on/2off dont bother wasting your time. Personally i plan on runnin Gh for as long as i can, that seems to be a good while.
Good lifting
HGH4life

[IBdmfkr]

What kind of doses are you talking about for the younger guys in your gym Pinn? I am currently on 10IU's EOD on training days.

[vitor]

What kind of doses are you talking about for the younger guys in your gym Pinn? I am currently on 10IU's EOD on training days.

Have you had bloating or any other sides with that dosage?

[IBdmfkr]

Have you had bloating or any other sides with that dosage?

Only 3wks in and haven't experienced much yet. I saw it much worse when using serostem at 4IU/day 5on2off. Unless this Jin is fake (which I highly doubt) then I prefer this method thus far in.

[SPIKE]

3g of primo.
Jesus, have you won the lottery.

Remember he's not in the states. Certain people have access to compounds that are in their backyard that we pay big bucks after being shipped in.

Back to the subject on hand. I am 25 and have used GH many many of times. As Pinn stated I didnt such much on the end of LBM at doses under 4iu. Thats why this time around I"m going to run 10iu EOD. Both a new method and higher dose in my case.

As Goose stated Primo is amazing at high doses. My reasoning for people not liking it is b/c of either not running a high enough dose or expecting too much as far as scale weight. I HATE scale weight!! All it is is how much gravity is pulling you the center of the earth. WHOOPIE!!!!! BF% referenced to scale weight is what's important. LBM over Fat, not what number is listed on the scale every morning when you weight yourselves.

Sorry guys had to get that out. BUMP for more opinions on GH and it's effectiveness...............

[MorganKane]

I use GH for anti-aging/overall feeling good component.
currently running 4iu a day.
I am 40 and the last 5 months has been some of the most stressful time in my business life and I am handling it better then ever. I sleep better for sure and I require less sleep. My hair is fuller too.

For fatloos or lbm I have not seen much at 2 or 4iu.

But for my useage I think its worth every penny.

[ward065]

id be curious to hear about more on this too- and the winny/primo topic certainly got my interests...b/c in my summer cycle i am thinking of adding something different, maybe primo, maybe gh (dont want to do slin though if i dont have too with gh, stuff really worries me, wonder if hgh with just AAS can be very effective without slin on top of it)

[kaorialfred]

I understand wanted to clarify a bit. My curioustity is more or less this:

Has anyone ran simple stacks and obtained those awsome results. Just seems you can get there but you have to have more than 2 compounds to do it. Then I just wonder if the High dose of HGH is dependent upon the others, which I think is what many guys are stuck on. Its one thing that its expensive! But then you have to run it in high amounts and also use some other coupounds with it. Also I respect and read your post, and you give good advice here. I'm still looking for pictures of the so called awsome fat burning effects of HGH. We keep hearing so much about what dose does what 4iu or 15 iu but never any pict to back up the claim of HGH. Now guys are quoted saying High dose but I don't see pics. I just would love to see some of these before and after High dose or long runs of HGH.

[Pinnacle]

We keep hearing so much about what dose does what 4iu or 15 iu but never any pict to back up the claim of HGH. Now guys are quoted saying High dose but I don't see pics. I just would love to see some of these before and after High dose or long runs of HGH.

I highly doubt you'll ever see that happen.Why would someone who competes and talk openly about anabolics on a message boards post pics of himself?Alls you need is one person from your gym,or a jealous competitor, to see the pics(and recognize you) and a shit storm could follow.Not worth the risk just to appease some ppl on a message board (that in all honesty don't give a fvk what would happen to that person).
None of these ppl have anything to prove to you at all.The only ppl they want to impress are the judges

[kaorialfred]

I highly doubt you'll ever see that happen.Why would someone who competes and talk openly about anabolics on a message boards post pics of himself?Alls you need is one person from your gym,or a jealous competitor, to see the pics(and recognize you) and a shit storm could follow.Not worth the risk just to appease some ppl on a message board (that in all honesty don't give a fvk what would happen to that person).
None of these ppl have anything to prove to you at all.The only ppl they want to impress are the judges

true, U do understand I'm just saying that me personally I would love to see the so results. I haven't been around long enough or around serious people like you have access too. I'm not trying to have some buddy or something I just would like to see it in real life for myself.I know that competing isn't my goal but , I wouldn't mind looking close to like I compete, which I'm working on

Now the funny thing about the pictures on the board is that we all know the pro'd use something but we don't know what. I would bet that a pro could post a pic on not a popular board but just some board with no head or just being obscure as can be. Unless you have stood side by side or even studied another's persons photo I highly doubt you would be able to pick out some pro body.JMO.

And Pinn it doesn't have to be a pro that posting a pict of the "Miricales of Growth Hormone Fat Loss"
I just haven't seen a good photo of a before and after type situation. Now diet and exercise photos their are plenty of those, it just makes me curious why would some non pro newbie would buy into the whole GH stuff. Me, I'm on HRT/TRT and have been for sometime now. I know the GH is helping but I would lean more towards my cardio, but then again I would have to suspect its the gh just by reading post in the GH forum. That's more my own personal concern.Pinn I admire the people you hang with pushing it, and going for it on stage. No doubt I respect their right to privacy too.

[alwayson]

i would also like to see pics