Knee Surgery- Took HGH all went well - SITE INJECTIONS proven to work - brainstorming

[MACKATTACK]

So I went and had my knee surgery done today. I had work done on the ACL, Medial Meniscus and I have arthritis in there at the age of 29. The doc said I had "jock knee" and my knee is aged well beyond my age.

So I took HGH up until today and took a shot about 5 hours before surgery, everything went fine and all my levels of Blood pressure and heart rate were perfect. No complications. I also ran T4 for 5 days up until today but I did not take the T4. Not sure why I just didn't. Just wanted to report that for anyone for future reference.


So I have been looking into site injections of HGH into my knee. I have read a few articles and about how it reduces swelling and pain and also increases faster healing and regrowth of cartilage. I will try to shoot injections into my knee starting tomorrow at 2ius of pharm grade Norditropin.


Here is one of the articles through ESPN:

HGH: Performance enhancer or healer? - ESPN


Just informal article from anti aging:

Can HGH Help Speed UP The Healing Of Knee Injuries?Anti Aging Blog



I am really praying and hoping that HGH can in the long run elongate my knee from becoming a major problem considering this was the second surgery I have had on this knee, first time around was major ACL reconstruction. I am looking at running for a 6+ month span. In all honesty, surgery is the worst specially when I was so on tract with life and the gym and in some of the best shape and god does things for a reason and I am trying to take a devoted and positive approach to the road of recovery and come back bigger and stronger and leaner.........would love to start this thread into a brain storming event and or other people locate articles inrelation to this subject to justify some spot injections.

Thanks fellas!!

[Hazard]

I don't want to burst any bubbles but I did this for a living. I've done joint replacements, meniscal repairs and replacements, acl's, etc. I've also had 2 knee surgeries and had my meniscus removed. I too have arthritis...... Yay

Anyways..... All the docs I've worked with have said a knee replacement is in the future. Also..... Steroids damage the cartilage. I'm not going to back it up with a study but this is what was told to me from years and years of experience. I would imagine there are studies out there. Ill look tomorrow when I have more time.

Anyways - best of luck with the hgh man. If you get mri's that show a positive outcome I'd love to see them. This could be very beneficial and really doesn't have a negative outcome as the hgh will still be in the body.

Best of luck!

[Hazard]

It's called avascular necrosis..... Steroids and joint complications.

[MACKATTACK]

The doctor I have is on the cutting edge, should I say. He said there is new stuff coming out soon where they are actually growing back the meniscus. He was talking to me about it today. Its not out yet but, it is actual growth of ligaments. And I am not talking about like my reconstructive acl surgery where they use a cadaver and it reattaches.

So there is alot down the pike so to say.

I am hoping in 10 years knee replacement is a thing of the past.......thanks for the kind words Hazard!!

My deductible is fully covered so what I may do is get an MRI done in the end of December just for shits and giggles and see how it compares!! I had an MRI and a MR Orthogram done before this surgery over the course of 3 months.

I don't want to burst any bubbles but I did this for a living. I've done joint replacements, meniscal repairs and replacements, acl's, etc. I've also had 2 knee surgeries and had my meniscus removed. I too have arthritis...... Yay

Anyways..... All the docs I've worked with have said a knee replacement is in the future. Also..... Steroids damage the cartilage. I'm not going to back it up with a study but this is what was told to me from years and years of experience. I would imagine there are studies out there. Ill look tomorrow when I have more time.

Anyways - best of luck with the hgh man. If you get mri's that show a positive outcome I'd love to see them. This could be very beneficial and really doesn't have a negative outcome as the hgh will still be in the body.

Best of luck!

[MACKATTACK]

Btw I dont take steroids . Only took 2 anavar cycles long time ago. This is strictly a HGH cycle only.

[Hazard]

I also used to work with stem cells ;-)


Funny story......

I was in a meeting with one of the nations best ortho docs (he's out of HSS in manhattan) and my boss, a few other ortho guys that run the stem cell company, and other docs in my territory. So they're discussing these stem cells and their ability to turn into any kind of cell they touch. So I look at my boss and one of the docs and I said "so if they come in contact with muscle cells..... They would create new muscle cells......" My boss goes "don't even think about it....." Lmfao! The other doc looks at my boss and says "keep these away from him haha"

[Hazard]

I would be very interested to see the MRI man!

[MACKATTACK]

I would be very interested to see the MRI man!

My only concern is that 3+ months isnt enough time to get enough growth internally in the knee......especially only at 2ius of Pharm grade.

[beerdogg]

Good luck with the recovery Mackattack!

[MACKATTACK]

Good luck with the recovery Mackattack!

Thanks brotha!

[nafnlaus]

actually the mechanism of how hGH works doesnt offer much local healing to the injection site. IGF on the other hand would have local effect

[MACKATTACK]

actually the mechanism of how hGH works doesnt offer much local healing to the injection site. IGF on the other hand would have local effect

You obviously didnt read the articles I posted or search on the subject......

[nafnlaus]

those articles offer no data that shows how local injections have superior effect.
the second website is selling hGH products which are a scam (oral is not possible with GH), how reliable is that website now?

Sub-q injection has been used with good results, regaining 40% of the knee cartilage. Local IGF and PRP injections have many articles on the other hand showing local effect.

also, if you intend to inject to the cartilage in the knee it is done with x-ray guidance and the risk for infection is great. this is not achiveable by an individual.

i hope you have good results with what you are doing and i wish you all the best. i am doing similar for cartilage degeneration in my knees, and disc degeneration in my back.

[ghost14]

those articles offer no data that shows how local injections have superior effect.
the second website is selling hGH products which are a scam (oral is not possible with GH), how reliable is that website now?

Sub-q injection has been used with good results, regaining 40% of the knee cartilage. Local IGF and PRP injections have many articles on the other hand showing local effect.

also, if you intend to inject to the cartilage in the knee it is done with x-ray guidance and the risk for infection is great. this is not achiveable by an individual.

i hope you have good results with what you are doing and i wish you all the best. i am doing similar for cartilage degeneration in my knees, and disc degeneration in my back.

So it is possible to regrow cartilage just by itself (no surgery etc) and hgh injections? How long did it take to regrow 40% cartilage?

[ghost14]

Systemic administration of IGF-I enhances healin... [BMC Physiol. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
Systematic administration of gh +igf1 was the most efficient in healing ligaments. But they used really high doses of igf1. Gh alone did not significantly improve healing. They're did not research local administration.

Local administratin of IGF-1: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12382953 . I have read elsewhere that too much/too long can increase scar tissue.

[nafnlaus]

So it is possible to regrow cartilage just by itself (no surgery etc) and hgh injections? How long did it take to regrow 40% cartilage?

the results im talking about with the 40% is a case which was logged by a person whos had long term injuries in the knee, his cartilage was worn down to 30% and it was shown on x-ray or an mri that after hGH therapy he regained 40%. his final test was to run 5k, which he hadnt done for years. ill try to find the article/log, but it was probably minimum 6-8 months.

i have found plenty of researches on ncbi on hGH alone for cartilage in general, they are easy to find. my interest lies in healing discs, which again has plenty of researches to support evidence of healing from hGH ncbi

[ghost14]

the results im talking about with the 40% is a case which was logged by a person whos had long term injuries in the knee, his cartilage was worn down to 30% and it was shown on x-ray or an mri that after hGH therapy he regained 40%. his final test was to run 5k, which he hadnt done for years. ill try to find the article/log, but it was probably minimum 6-8 months.

i have found plenty of researches on ncbi on hGH alone for cartilage in general, they are easy to find. my interest lies in healing discs, which again has plenty of researches to support evidence of healing from hGH ncbi

So he went back to 70% of normal cartilage, yes?
I have a 4mm defect in knee cartilage, up to the bone, and was told that it will not heal by itself, I need a surgery. That is shaving and drilling the bone. It would be nice to avoid the surgery.

I am sorry to hijack the thread. Just to my little knowledge I thought that hgh speeds healing, but some things like cartilage will not regrow just by themself. Interesting!

[Hazard]

So he went back to 70% of normal cartilage, yes?
I have a 4mm defect in knee cartilage, up to the bone, and was told that it will not heal by itself, I need a surgery. That is shaving and drilling the bone. It would be nice to avoid the surgery.

I am sorry to hijack the thread. Just to my little knowledge I thought that hgh speeds healing, but some things like cartilage will not regrow just by themself. Interesting!

A bone plug surgery. If its necessary, doit. If not - hold off.

[nafnlaus]

So he went back to 70% of normal cartilage, yes?
I have a 4mm defect in knee cartilage, up to the bone, and was told that it will not heal by itself, I need a surgery. That is shaving and drilling the bone. It would be nice to avoid the surgery.

I am sorry to hijack the thread. Just to my little knowledge I thought that hgh speeds healing, but some things like cartilage will not regrow just by themself. Interesting!

yes that is what he claimed in his log.
And the thing is, its anabolic effect is primarily through Hyperplasia - that is cell multiplication. New cells are formed, that is great for healing. For example, the discs have few to none cells to heal it self so using hyperplasic substances is very beneficial. Hard to measure accurately but has been shown to multiply healing cells. For other comparable tissue, it can speed up the repair of broken bones by approx. 25%. Tendons, bones, discs, cartilage will benefit from this, and especially cartilage surfaces such as the knees have more chances of healing than other cartilage-alike parts.

[nafnlaus]

PRP injections are regenerating my knee cartilage & ligaments
i dug this up somewhere, this one is about PRP. Platelet Rich Plasma is a growth factor rich serum drawn from blood and injected locally to injured sites.

[MACKATTACK]

btw I had to pull back on injecting the HGH until the knee heals more. I was getting black and blues and blood due to blood swelling the knee. Once the swelling reduces to normal levels I will go back to the knee.

[nafnlaus]

btw I had to pull back on injecting the HGH until the knee heals more. I was getting black and blues and blood due to blood swelling the knee. Once the swelling reduces to normal levels I will go back to the knee.

wait what, are you attempting to inject to the cartilage in your knee by your self?

[Far from massive]

Did not read the whole thread (gotta hit the gym shortly) but I did want to say HGH site injection is not the same as AAS site injection. I work in the fitness industry and through our contacts we have access to some very good doctors, my boss plays semi-pro ball and hurt his knee (MCL?) I think. Anyhow he saw a doc who does a lot of NFL players and he indeed did inject his ligament directly with HGH and the healing was very fast just as the doc predicted.

I was not there when he did the injection but from how my boss describes it I believe he did a guided injection much like they do when doing a spinal puncture and said that the accuracy of the injection is paramount to the success of the treatment.

Anyhow good luck and be CAREFUL...I would strongly suggest you do not attempt to inject your own knee either joint capsule or God forbid direct to ligament with anything yourself.

[nafnlaus]

its rather simple, if you attempt to inject your damn ligaments you are likely to loose a leg. you are prone enough to infections even when executed by a doctor while hospitalized

[MACKATTACK]

wait what, are you attempting to inject to the cartilage in your knee by your self?

No.....

[ghost14]

A bone plug surgery. If its necessary, doit. If not - hold off.

No, it's not necessary yet, I was told that within few years. But I would prefer less invasive procedure, hgh injections by a doctor seems similar price altogether and promising but less invasive.

[ghost14]

PRP injections are regenerating my knee cartilage & ligaments
i dug this up somewhere, this one is about PRP. Platelet Rich Plasma is a growth factor rich serum drawn from blood and injected locally to injured sites.

Thanks for the link! I had a few prp injections, for a torn tendon and tendonitis. It was much more efficient than any tb500 protocol or peptides 5x a day. The latter just helped healing. Anyway if just prp injections may help in healing/growing cartilage it is very promising. And it is cheap in my insurance, so I could go with a few and hope for the result.

I am still pinning ghrp2/mod grf to help healing tendons. I do not know if peptides may help in growing cartilage at the same level as exogenous hgh but maybe I will get knees' MRI in a few months and will see, if they are better or worse. They feel already better after few months of this combo, but I don't know if it is joints or tendons, as I have also patellar tendonosis.

[MACKATTACK]

I wound up having a tear in my elbow. I got a PRP injection this past week. With numbing because it may affect the PRP. Some of the worst pain of my life for about 2 days..........

[MACKATTACK]

Btw the knee is healing REMARKABLY fast!!! Super happy......people who are in PT and had similar or less surgerys than me and I am leaps and bounds ahead of them.......

[MACKATTACK]

With all the issues, I havent been able to work out at all. I havent seen the gym in about a month. My diet has also gone to crap. overall it has helped to reduce my weight gain but I hav def put on about 10lbs.

[Times Roman]

it would have been interesting to have a second knee surgery, and this time without the site injections, but instead, in the stomach like most water based SubQ injections. then compare the difference....

[Facecrash]

Make sure your insurance covers multiple MRI on the same area. Mine wouldn't cover MRI after treatment as they said it was elective

The doctor I have is on the cutting edge, should I say. He said there is new stuff coming out soon where they are actually growing back the meniscus. He was talking to me about it today. Its not out yet but, it is actual growth of ligaments. And I am not talking about like my reconstructive acl surgery where they use a cadaver and it reattaches.

So there is alot down the pike so to say.

I am hoping in 10 years knee replacement is a thing of the past.......thanks for the kind words Hazard!!

My deductible is fully covered so what I may do is get an MRI done in the end of December just for shits and giggles and see how it compares!! I had an MRI and a MR Orthogram done before this surgery over the course of 3 months.