T3 vs T4

**jwh7699** · 10-28-2016, 06:25 PM

I've been doing some reading on here regarding T3 vs T4 for fat loss.

It seems like more people are using T4 now over T3.

I am aware of the 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3. T4 200mcg = T3 50mcg

Also using Testosterone to minimize muscle wasting.

Which is more effective as a stand alone supplement?

Have people ever used either one with Trenbolone ?
(Or would this turn you into a puddle)

Thanks!!

**DocToxin8** · 10-29-2016, 09:42 AM

Without much first hand experience with these compounds, I would think both equally effective. However, I'm worried that T4s long half life will mean a longer period of recovery, but I might be wrong, as the thyroid system is very resistant to permanent shut down. People have been on T4 for 20years straight and returned to normal within 2 months after use.
But, for some it took as long as 6 months.

Both compounds are pretty much alike, except for half life and T4 being much weaker in itself, and can thus be considered a pro drug of sorts.

**jwh7699** · 10-29-2016, 10:27 AM

Thanks for the info! I wasn't aware of T4's longer half-life. I think the longer half-life could be a benefit.

**OdinsOtherSon** · 10-29-2016, 03:19 PM

T3: A complete guide to cycling T3 and how it works

**DocToxin8** · 10-29-2016, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by jwh7699

Thanks for the info! I wasn't aware of T4's longer half-life. I think the longer half-life could be a benefit.

It could be, and is part of the reason why hypothyroid patients are usually just put on thyroxine (T4), as it has a half life of about a week I think. (Look it up yourself

A hypothyroid patient on T4 can forget his dose a couple of days and it doesn't matter much, but if treated with triodothyronine/T3 only I think that would be very noticable.
I tend to think the best treatment is with both T4 and T3 in some cases, but that's another topic.

I'm not sure about the recovery issue, just overheard someone say recovery from T4 was a bitch compared to T3.
Maybe some others can chime in on this.

**OdinsOtherSon** · 10-29-2016, 03:43 PM

For use as a thermogenic, T3 has, historically, been the go to product in this community. As you stated, def want to use while on cycle due to T3's indiscriminate distinction between fat and muscle. T4 is converted into T3, so if it's T3's fat "burning" properties you're after, you'd be better served just using T3. Recovery from T3 use, even prolonged use, is quick and reliable. No idea if that's the case with T4.

**hammerheart** · 10-29-2016, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

It could be, and is part of the reason why hypothyroid patients are usually just put on thyroxine (T4), as it has a half life of about a week I think. (Look it up yourself

A hypothyroid patient on T4 can forget his dose a couple of days and it doesn't matter much, but if treated with triodothyronine/T3 only I think that would be very noticable.
I tend to think the best treatment is with both T4 and T3 in some cases, but that's another topic.

I'm not sure about the recovery issue, just overheard someone say recovery from T4 was a bitch compared to T3.
Maybe some others can chime in on this.

Happened recently.. just missed a T3 dose and felt cranky as hell the morning after. I split the daily dose morning/evening.

The ratios put that way don't mean much. 150mcg LT4 would probably just replace your endogenous output, that means the extra is only provided by the remaining 50mcg - ie. 12.5 T3.

There is also concern that huge doses of LT4 actually inhibit conversion. Best treatment for hypothyroidism depends on the grade of dysfunction but often the combination of T4+T3 provides the best response, but this is hugely individual. Some do better on T4 alone.

My advise (in the regard of cycling)? Stick to T3.

**Obs** · 10-29-2016, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

It could be, and is part of the reason why hypothyroid patients are usually just put on thyroxine (T4), as it has a half life of about a week I think. (Look it up yourself

A hypothyroid patient on T4 can forget his dose a couple of days and it doesn't matter much, but if treated with triodothyronine/T3 only I think that would be very noticable.
I tend to think the best treatment is with both T4 and T3 in some cases, but that's another topic.

I'm not sure about the recovery issue, just overheard someone say recovery from T4 was a bitch compared to T3.
Maybe some others can chime in on this.

Not to change the subject but this isn't worth another thread... are there t3 and t4 blockers? I see a lot of people with skinny guy syndrome that I feel like just have too much naturally. How do you cure a guy that just has way to high of a metabolism for his own good?

**jwh7699** · 10-29-2016, 04:30 PM

Doing a quick Google search, there are Thyroid Blockers out there, but they are prescription medications. If you truly have hypothyroidism, symptoms are usually brittle nails, hair loss, fatigue, heart palpitations. See a Doctor.

As far as Weight Gain, I wish I had that problem, just gotta eat and try mass gainer shakes.

After reading all the Info above, I will consider taking T3 over T4. I was a little nervous about taking T3. I tried it for 2 weeks back in May, shortly after I got very sick, pneumonia.

**Obs** · 10-29-2016, 04:35 PM

I don't have the problem but cool. I know one guy skinny as heck and bald since highschool. I will check into it further.

**hammerheart** · 10-29-2016, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by jwh7699

Doing a quick Google search, there are Thyroid Blockers out there, but they are prescription medications. If you truly have hypothyroidism, symptoms are usually brittle nails, hair loss, fatigue, heart palpitations. See a Doctor.

As far as Weight Gain, I wish I had that problem, just gotta eat and try mass gainer shakes.

After reading all the Info above, I will consider taking T3 over T4. I was a little nervous about taking T3. I tried it for 2 weeks back in May, shortly after I got very sick, pneumonia.

Yep there are drugs used for hyperthyroidism, and nothing I'd recommend for other purposes. No idea about the pneumonia, I'd be more inclined to think of coincidence.

I already have a diagnosis of hypothyroidism (from autoimmune thyroiditis)

The weight gain from thyroid dysfunction is largely a myth, invented by post-menopausal women I believe. When overt hypothyroidism is present water retention happens, but that gets flushed away on replacement therapy.

**tarmyg** · 10-29-2016, 10:25 PM

T4 seems to do nothing for me (might be in my head) but I have tried 600mcg ED for over 2 months and I had zero effect of it.

**jwh7699** · 10-30-2016, 09:28 AM

That's a good amount of T4, if you didn't see a change on it at that amount I don't think it ever will work for you.

Did you do any blood work during and after? Did it take awhile for your thyroid to return to normal?

**NACH3** · 10-30-2016, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

Not to change the subject but this isn't worth another thread... are there t3 and t4 blockers? I see a lot of people with skinny guy syndrome that I feel like just have too much naturally. How do you cure a guy that just has way to high of a metabolism for his own good?

Your controlling your thyroid w/T3 - therefore, if you ran say 12.5mcg(this is individualistic and there's much more to it but gives a decent idea)... so say the avg man produces around 50mcg/day(and this is where it gets tricky) - but many use T3 as a thermogenic by increasing the dose of T3(it'll burn fat muscle etc - it surely doesn't discriminate)

However, I've heard & read that taking a much smaller dose could actually slow your metabolism down to suite your goals etc - 12.5mcgs is a 1/4 of what we would produce endogenously... sometimes a lil experiments work wonders

I'll be implementing T3 and logging some things in the near future....

**hammerheart** · 10-30-2016, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

However, I've heard & read that taking a much smaller dose could actually slow your metabolism down to suite your goals etc - 12.5mcgs is a 1/4 of what we would produce endogenously...

The thyroid works in a negative feedback fashion much like the HPTA, when you add T3 to your system it will downregulate endogenous output in order to meet homeostasis again, that's why 50mcg is the starting dose.

**DocToxin8** · 10-30-2016, 02:11 PM

There's no "thyroid blocker" medication that I know of.
What one refers to as "thyroid blockers" are types of iodine that protect your thyroid when doing radiation therapy.

The only cure for an overactive thyroid (hyperthyroidism) is to destroy the thyroid gland, surgically or with radiation, and then put the patient on T4 for the rest of their life.
But I haven't checked this in a while, so new drugs may have been developed,
though I'm a bit sceptical before I see anyone give a reference to such a drug.

With hyperthyroidism the thyroid will produce T4 and T3 without stimulation by TSH, this one can't just administer an TRH or TSH inhibtor, one would have to use drugs that prevent T3 to work in the cells.
I would think that could be difficult and dangerous to do with a drug, as T3 affects so many different cell types.

Thin people should count themselves lucky they're not fat, which is a much bigger problem, and eat and train.
My brother is built differently than me, naturally skinny, but with diet and weight training he builds muscle, and gets a dry vascular look more easy, but also uses more time to put on weight.
Now a days he's having problems as he's older and want more muscles in his thighs especially, since he's a bicycle addict, but that is also why he has trouble gaining muscle; he trains way to much cardio. Even if he eats as much as he thinks he does, I'm still not suprised if he won't gain weight, as it's just about impossible to build muscle when you train your body to function at John output for hours and hours on end. Type 1 muscle fibers are more suited to the job.
His type 2 muscle fibers are told each and every time he's doing cardio for hours to stop growing.

**jwh7699** · 10-30-2016, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Your controlling your thyroid w/T3 - therefore, if you ran say 12.5mcg(this is individualistic and there's much more to it but gives a decent idea)... so say the avg man produces around 50mcg/day(and this is where it gets tricky) - but many use T3 as a thermogenic by increasing the dose of T3(it'll burn fat muscle etc - it surely doesn't discriminate)

However, I've heard & read that taking a much smaller dose could actually slow your metabolism down to suite your goals etc - 12.5mcgs is a 1/4 of what we would produce endogenously... sometimes a lil experiments work wonders

I'll be implementing T3 and logging some things in the near future....

For people looking to slow down their Thyroid, would T4 work better in the same situation?

**numbere** · 10-30-2016, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by jwh7699

For people looking to slow down their Thyroid, would T4 work better in the same situation?

I have a fair amount of experience using t3 and Imo taking either t3 or t4 with the goal of decreasing your metabolism is silly, just eat more food.

Besides unless you've had a tsh panel your only guessing that you're thyroid is overactive.

Stacking several different hormones together will not make up for large deficiencies in diet, and if your diet isn't spot on taking t3 is a waste.

T3 is more effective at aiding in fat loss fat loss.

What do you want to know in regards to tren and t3?

**NACH3** · 10-31-2016, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

The thyroid works in a negative feedback fashion much like the HPTA, when you add T3 to your system it will downregulate endogenous output in order to meet homeostasis again, that's why 50mcg is the starting dose.

You are Correct... I was only talking about its thermogenic/or non thermogenic properties it can have at certain doses...?!

I agree w/Numbere in trying to slow your metabolism is rather pointless

**hammerheart** · 10-31-2016, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

You are Correct... I was only talking about its thermogenic/or non thermogenic properties it can have at certain doses...?!

I agree w/Numbere in trying to slow your metabolism is rather pointless

The issue is the T3 is very suppressive and has a short half life too. It's like doing TRT with test suspension, it will clear out of your system quickly and suppress the HPTA at the same time, while no reservoir (T4) is present. The reason why some experience hypothyroid symptoms on T3 is because they aren't using a dose high enough to replace endogenous output yet enough to suppress T4.

A smart move to keep levels stable is to split dose morning/evening like we thyroid patients do.

**numbere** · 10-31-2016, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

A smart move to keep levels stable is to split dose morning/evening like we thyroid patients do.

Splitting the dose up my be best for thyroid patients but when taking 50mcg+/d you'll likely have less sides if you take t3 once per day.

**hammerheart** · 10-31-2016, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

Splitting the dose up my be best for thyroid patients but when taking 50mcg+/d you'll likely have less sides if you take t3 once per day.

What are the sides commonly experienced on a cycle? I'm taking 125mcg LT4 plus 50mcg T3 and this puts me a tad above therapeutic range, haven't had any issue though.

**numbere** · 10-31-2016, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

What are the sides commonly experienced on a cycle? I'm taking 125mcg LT4 plus 50mcg T3 and this puts me a tad above therapeutic range, haven't had any issue though.

I'm sure that you're familiar with the common side effects of t3.

**ScotchGuard02** · 10-31-2016, 01:37 PM

Guys, T4 is the real deal. I almost killed myself with it two years ago. I blended my own T4 caps and misread the scale. I was trying to get .25mg/cap and ended up putting in 25mg/cap. I took that for about two and a half weeks. I ended up losing 45lbs in 30 days. I had skin hanging all over my body. My face was so gaunt that when I went to a business lunch, my associates didn't recognize me. I went to an endo and he said I had hyper thyroidsim. He wanted to remove my thryroids and put me on T4. Is that funny or what? LOL I told him what I did and he said let's just do blood work every 2 weeks and see what happens. Man, thyroids are AMAZINGLY resistant. All of my thyroid readings were normal within 6 weeks. I didn't tell the endo that I've been taking T4 100mcg/ed for nearly 7 years with my HGH. Even being on T4 that long, my T3, T4, TSH reading were back to normal in 6 weeks. Tarmyg, if you're taking 600mcg/ed of T4 for 2 months and see no results? I don't think you're taking T4. T4 is super effective at controlling metabolism when taken correctly and combined with diet and cardio.

**hammerheart** · 10-31-2016, 01:42 PM

25mg?

Is that correct?

Originally Posted by numbere

I'm sure that you're familiar with the common side effects of t3.

Well I was rather curious about what others are familiar with. If your interested, I haven't noticed any weight loss nor an increase in heart rate. Some hypo symptoms are a bit better and that's it.

**tarmyg** · 10-31-2016, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Tarmyg, if you're taking 600mcg/ed of T4 for 2 months and see no results? I don't think you're taking T4. T4 is super effective at controlling metabolism when taken correctly and combined with diet and cardio.

I was taking this for two months (THYROX 200MCG 100S TABLET): THYROX 200MCG 100S TABLET ( MACLEODS ) - Buy THYROX 200MCG 100S TABLET Online at best Price in India - MedplusMart

**numbere** · 10-31-2016, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by tarmyg

I was taking this for two months (THYROX 200MCG 100S TABLET):

A small portion of the population are nonresponsive when taking thyroid hormone.

Have you tried t3?

**jwh7699** · 10-31-2016, 08:09 PM

I was just wondering if taking Trenbolone and T3 together is good or bad?

Just from reading I would think bad. I would assume overheating would be a big problem.

I'm curious too Scotchguard02 if you have taken T3 before and your preference between T3 and T4?

**tarmyg** · 11-01-2016, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

A small portion of the population are nonresponsive when taking thyroid hormone.

Have you tried t3?

Did not know that :-) No, never tried T3, I'll try that next.

**michael30** · 11-22-2016, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by tarmyg

I was taking this for two months (THYROX 200MCG 100S TABLET): THYROX 200MCG 100S TABLET ( MACLEODS ) - Buy THYROX 200MCG 100S TABLET Online at best Price in India - MedplusMart

Tarmyg one thing I've personally noticed with t3 and t4 is I have to slowly tapper my dosage up if I'm on it for a long time. I've noticed after 4weeks weight loss will slow and then eventually stop unless dosage is increased. Another thing I've learned is i do not need large doses like I thought I did.