GH question

[djacosta]

Hi, I am wondering why most people suggest taking 4iu of GH in two doses rather than a single dose in the morning?
thanks

[MBaraso]

Cuz GH works more so at night when your sleeping, so that's one of the reasons, but there's probably more...

[einstein1905]

Hi, I am wondering why most people suggest taking 4iu of GH in two doses rather than a single dose in the morning?
thanks

Somatostatin is the protein expressed in response to high levels of GH to counteract these high levels. By shooting some GH, you allow this elevated level of GH to cause most of its downstream effects for a period of time until the elevated GH level as well as downstream metabolites/products incite the negative feedback loop, increasing somatostatin expression. This all occurs over a relatively brief period...maybe a few hours. By taking the second shot later, you allow your body to again gain benefit from the elevated GH levels until the negative feedback loop kicks in. If you shot it all at once, the theory is (I'm sure it's been shown somewhere) that somatostatin will be expressed proportionally to the level of GH in plasma at that time so as to balance things out again. 2 shots means 2 periods of time during which your body will be "caught off guard". Keeping your last shot to sometime around late afternoon or earlier will also allow the somatostatin levels to return to normal before bedtime, during which you still capitalize on your own naturally-occurring highest GH release spikes.

[djacosta]

awesome that makes sense but would the afternoon injection interfere with sleep or sleep patterns?
thanks

Somatostatin is the protein expressed in response to high levels of GH to counteract these high levels. By shooting some GH, you allow this elevated level of GH to cause most of its downstream effects for a period of time until the elevated GH level as well as downstream metabolites/products incite the negative feedback loop, increasing somatostatin expression. This all occurs over a relatively brief period...maybe a few hours. By taking the second shot later, you allow your body to again gain benefit from the elevated GH levels until the negative feedback loop kicks in. If you shot it all at once, the theory is (I'm sure it's been shown somewhere) that somatostatin will be expressed proportionally to the level of GH in plasma at that time so as to balance things out again. 2 shots means 2 periods of time during which your body will be "caught off guard". Keeping your last shot to sometime around late afternoon or earlier will also allow the somatostatin levels to return to normal before bedtime, during which you still capitalize on your own naturally-occurring highest GH release spikes.

[einstein1905]

awesome that makes sense but would the afternoon injection interfere with sleep or sleep patterns?
thanks

No, it shouldn't. You might feel a little lethargic after each injection, but it won't have any direct effect on your sleep.

[Mallet]

best time to take GH is at 8.00am and at 2.00pm that's when your cortisol is at it's highest...best time to check your BG is 2 hours after taking GH...because GH is an antagonist to insulin , so if your BG is still high (8mmol) you need to take a glucose disposal agent...slin being the best, but metformin will work also.

[djacosta]

thanks for the great info..what should my BG be around approx. in your opinion.
thanks

best time to take GH is at 8.00am and at 2.00pm that's when your cortisol is at it's highest...best time to check your BG is 2 hours after taking GH...because GH is an antagonist to insulin, so if your BG is still high (8mmol) you need to take a glucose disposal agent...slin being the best, but metformin will work also.

[Mallet]

thanks for the great info..what should my BG be around approx. in your opinion.
thanks

Your resting BG which means first thing in the morning before meals...should be around 4.5mmol and 6mmol...after cosuming a meal (depending on what you eat) your BG will rise to anywhere from 7mmol to 10mmol depending on your insulin sensativity, after 2-4 hrs your BG should be back down around the normal range (again depending on what you ate) after exercise your BG should be fairly low again around 4.5mmol to say 6mmol again.

When I say depending on what you ate I mean if you consume protein or fat your BG will hardly change, carbs will cause a rise in BG, however if you consume pro or fat with carbs that slows the rate of obsorption so your BG will rise slowly (protein and fat effect the GI of carbs)

[djacosta]

Mallet so would it be correct in your opinion to assume if my father has type II diabetes I could also have genetic disposition to being more insulin resistant and hence using GH would add to this effect as you stated and so using inuslin would be a must..also I dont get hypoglycemic except very late at night and it caused me to wake up with high heart rate( i understand this is a compensatory mech) and as soon as i eat something i feel fine, how would i be able to avoid this because i do eat a a protein shake with carbs before going to bed...Your knowledge and advice is very much appreciated.
thanks

Your resting BG which means first thing in the morning before meals...should be around 4.5mmol and 6mmol...after cosuming a meal (depending on what you eat) your BG will rise to anywhere from 7mmol to 10mmol depending on your insulin sensativity, after 2-4 hrs your BG should be back down around the normal range (again depending on what you ate) after exercise your BG should be fairly low again around 4.5mmol to say 6mmol again.

When I say depending on what you ate I mean if you consume protein or fat your BG will hardly change, carbs will cause a rise in BG, however if you consume pro or fat with carbs that slows the rate of obsorption so your BG will rise slowly (protein and fat effect the GI of carbs)

[Mallet]

That's interesting that you mention your heart rate is high while asleep...when your heart rate is high at rest your Body temp is very low, which is usually a result of stress, from either lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, or overtraining.
you said your father has type II diabetes, that's from hyperglycemia (high) not hypoglycemia (low) Taking GH will cause high BG rather than low BG...It sounds like your suffering from hypo not hyper like your father, and yes diabetes is quite often passed down genetically but doesn't meen you will end up with diabetes...I find that odd that your feeling hypo after consuming a meal before bed...my advice to you would be to check your BG throughout the day...upon awakening, after meals etc...and especially before bed. There are certain products like ALA and chromium that help increase insulin sensitivity. get back to me on your BG reading after a few days and we'll take it from there. because if you had high BG like your father ...taking GH would further raise your BG (making you fat) and your beta cells would be working over time trying to dispose of all that glucose, and when your beta cells begin to tire or they ultimately burn out...hence the cause for diabetes!

Mallet so would it be correct in your opinion to assume if my father has type II diabetes I could also have genetic disposition to being more insulin resistant and hence using GH would add to this effect as you stated and so using inuslin would be a must..also I dont get hypoglycemic except very late at night and it caused me to wake up with high heart rate( i understand this is a compensatory mech) and as soon as i eat something i feel fine, how would i be able to avoid this because i do eat a a protein shake with carbs before going to bed...Your knowledge and advice is very much appreciated.
thanks

[djacosta]

Ok thanks mallet you are awesome and very knowledgable..so i will get a glucometer and start tomm...i am also going to my physician are there any special tests that i should request to be done in your opinion that then I could discuss with you...thanks again for all your help...

That's interesting that you mention your heart rate is high while asleep...when your heart rate is high at rest your Body temp is very low, which is usually a result of stress, from either lack of sleep, lack of nutrition, or overtraining.
you said your father has type II diabetes, that's from hyperglycemia (high) not hypoglycemia (low) Taking GH will cause high BG rather than low BG...It sounds like your suffering from hypo not hyper like your father, and yes diabetes is quite often passed down genetically but doesn't meen you will end up with diabetes...I find that odd that your feeling hypo after consuming a meal before bed...my advice to you would be to check your BG throughout the day...upon awakening, after meals etc...and especially before bed. There are certain products like ALA and chromium that help increase insulin sensitivity. get back to me on your BG reading after a few days and we'll take it from there. because if you had high BG like your father ...taking GH would further raise your BG (making you fat) and your beta cells would be working over time trying to dispose of all that glucose, and when your beta cells begin to tire or they ultimately burn out...hence the cause for diabetes!

[Mallet]

Ok thanks mallet you are awesome and very knowledgable..so i will get a glucometer and start tomm...i am also going to my physician are there any special tests that i should request to be done in your opinion that then I could discuss with you...thanks again for all your help...

Since your planning on running GH...and your HR being high at night followed by your low BG i would get him to check the following:

GH
Igf1
Test (free,total,bioactive)
estrogen
actc
cortisol
t4
t3
tsh
rt3
dht
fasting glucose
insulin

I know that seems like alot, but if your gonna get blood drawn shoot the works...but at the very least check for fasting glucose, insulin, Igf1, t4,t3.tsh,rt3.

I would also suggest checking your resting temp every morning for 5 days...I meen before your feet hit the floor, get a digital thermo ($10.00) keep track of your temp will tell a tale of it's own!

[djacosta]

Hi mallet sorry this will be the last point ..i am running the GH right now, I am sorry i thought you knew...this is not the first time i have ran GH but this is the first time i am getting this specific side effects of waking up in the middle of the night and i feel sweety and cant breath like a panic attack...i am running it at 3iu and it has been almost a month and these are the new symptoms so thats why i wanted to go in to the doc, i was thinking i might have HBP. The other med I am taking is Adderall XR(10mg morning and 10mg at noon) but the first few weeks of GH and the adderall i was fine so this is a recent development.just felt a bit hypo a few times for not eatign properly but now that i eat approx every 2 hrs i am fine during the day..ok i am sorry to take your time but it has been realy helpful...and i will give him all the tests you suggested...
thanks

Since your planning on running GH...and your HR being high at night followed by your low BG i would get him to check the following:

GH
Igf1
Test (free,total,bioactive)
estrogen
actc
cortisol
t4
t3
tsh
rt3
dht
fasting glucose
insulin

I know that seems like alot, but if your gonna get blood drawn shoot the works...but at the very least check for fasting glucose, insulin, Igf1, t4,t3.tsh,rt3.

I would also suggest checking your resting temp every morning for 5 days...I meen before your feet hit the floor, get a digital thermo ($10.00) keep track of your temp will tell a tale of it's own!

[Mallet]

My BP rises on GH too...the first 2 months on GH are the hardest, that's when all the sides show up, once you make it past the hurdle you'll be fine.

A simple check for BP...I know this sounds silly, but, clench your hand into a fist for about 5 seconds and then release, see how long it takes for the colour to return to your hand...any longer than 3 seconds is an indication of higher BP. lets keep this our little medical breakthrough secret!

Hi mallet sorry this will be the last point ..i am running the GH right now, I am sorry i thought you knew...this is not the first time i have ran GH but this is the first time i am getting this specific side effects of waking up in the middle of the night and i feel sweety and cant breath like a panic attack...i am running it at 3iu and it has been almost a month and these are the new symptoms so thats why i wanted to go in to the doc, i was thinking i might have HBP. The other med I am taking is Adderall XR(10mg morning and 10mg at noon) but the first few weeks of GH and the adderall i was fine so this is a recent development.just felt a bit hypo a few times for not eatign properly but now that i eat approx every 2 hrs i am fine during the day..ok i am sorry to take your time but it has been realy helpful...and i will give him all the tests you suggested...
thanks

[djacosta]

lol..ok mallet you are an awesome person thanks for all the help i will keep you updated and color takes about 5sec so maybe...ok i cant thank you enough i feel much better.
sash[

QUOTE=Mallet]My BP rises on GH too...the first 2 months on GH are the hardest, that's when all the sides show up, once you make it past the hurdle you'll be fine.

A simple check for BP...I know this sounds silly, but, clench your hand into a fist for about 5 seconds and then release, see how long it takes for the colour to return to your hand...any longer than 3 seconds is an indication of higher BP. lets keep this our little medical breakthrough secret! [/QUOTE]